Euro 2012.

tailwindhome

There is not a player in the world anywhere at any level who plays the game within the laws.

Ever seen a match with no free kicks?

Is every player who commits a foul a cheat?

Libraio

Rick Chasey wrote:

Need Portugal to win...

They did!

Funny coming to a Brittish cycling forum where peoples are discussing Dutch football. I'm settled on the couch ready for watching the match, I so hope they get their act together and win.

By the way, all footbal players are over paid cry babies who know how to 'bend' the rules better than they know how to play.

iclestu

TailWindHome wrote:

There is not a player in the world anywhere at any level who plays the game within the laws.

Ever seen a match with no free kicks?

Is every player who commits a foul a cheat?

I largely agree with you but you cant imply that someone committing a foul is cheating. Most fouls are accidental. To cheat implies INTENT to break the rules.

Libraio

Oh, forgot to say I blame the Brittish for corrupting Nigel de Jong, teaching him how to kick a man in the chest. He was such a nice boy before he signed with Manchester City*...

I know absolutely nothing of football

EKE_38BPM

iclestu wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

There is not a player in the world anywhere at any level who plays the game within the laws.

Ever seen a match with no free kicks?

Is every player who commits a foul a cheat?

I largely agree with you but you cant imply that someone committing a foul is cheating. Most fouls are accidental. To cheat implies INTENT to break the rules.

To clarify what I wrote previously:
If the ref awards a foul, you've crossed the line. e.g an accidental late tackle
If the ref also gives a yellow card, you've crossed into cheating. e.g a deliberately late tackle or professional foul
If the ref gives a straight red, you've crossed another line into dangerous play. Usually. e.g. a studs showing tackle or kicking someone in the chest.

EKE_38BPM

The Dutch look awful.

Libraio

EKE_38BPM wrote:

The Dutch look awful.

Nah, we are being shafted. By our coach. I'll tell my neighbours to start taking down those bloody orange flags outside.

Ben6899

Rick. Who's your second claim?

rick_chasey

Disaster.

Totally overshadowed by a) bad news from home, and more relevant to the forum, all this Armstrong stuff. I think pro-race just exploded.

It was pretty comparable to when Germany beat Holland in the last friendly - as I feared. They're just a better team.

Best performance of the tournament so far.

daviesee

There always appears to be doping story in the build up to the Tour.
It always seems to go away after the Tour.
Sad for the sport (in all contexts) but I imagine this story will go the same way.

BelgianBeerGeek

Got to say the the Germans put in a good performance. Ozil and Gomez in particular v. good. Holland not at their best.
By the way Rick, did they ever get their bikes back?

rick_chasey

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Got to say the the Germans put in a good performance. Ozil and Gomez in particular v. good. Holland not at their best.

No.

The young left back Jetro Willems was absolutely ruined.

If we could finish as well as the Germans did we'd be brill.

Unfortunately, pretty much no other team can finish like they can.

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

The young left back Jetro Willems was absolutely ruined.

He was massively out of his depth and the Germans identified this very early on. He won't forget last night in a hurry!

asprilla

Nothing to see here. Move along.

daviesee

Asprilla wrote:

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Bet you've changed your tune now!

asprilla

daviesee wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Bet you've changed your tune now!

Not by much. I'm going to wear my HRM for the next match so Mrs A knows when to dial 999.

Ben6899

Zlatan Ibrahimovic. What a prick. Go and join van Bommel in the broom wagon.

DrLex

"Are you watching Dolph Lundgren? Max von Sydow? Benny and Bjorn? Ace of Base? Swedish Chef? Your boys took one hell of a narrow defeat!!!!"

iclestu

iclestu wrote:

got a bet on Denmark at 100-1 to win it (seemed worth a punt for a quid - if Greece can do it ... ) before they won their first match so they are my adopted team. Will be watching them with interest later!

pah! They were robbed. That was a clear penalty

daviesee

iclestu wrote:

iclestu wrote:

got a bet on Denmark at 100-1 to win it (seemed worth a punt for a quid - if Greece can do it ... ) before they won their first match so they are my adopted team. Will be watching them with interest later!

pah! They were robbed. That was a clear penalty

Agreed!
At that point it was a game changer and would have meant Denmark and Portugal going through at the expense of Germany. The cynic in me tells me that would have been avoided if possible........
The same cynic says that Spain and Italy will get any dubious decisions but has trouble on Tuesday. Who goes through? The 2 nations with history and money or the last remaining host nation? Difficult one.

Can you tell that I am disillusioned with the "sport"?

rick_chasey

Well.

Holland were awful.

Deserved to go out.

The group of death was certainly difficult, and you'd think they might have scraped through in an easier group - but they're still rubbish and they'd have got knocked out in the quarters anyway.

DonDaddyD

The Dutch team has had issues for a number of years now - last World Cup not withstanding, though the Final was indicative of those is issues.

It seems that the Dutch team struggled with the transition from the 1996 - 2004 generation (That's the Kliuvert, Frank and Ronald de Boer, Edgar Davids, Clarence Seedorf, Marc Overmars, Jaap Stam generation) to the 2006 - 2012 generation of Van Persie, Robben, Van der Vaart and Sneijder.

By the end of the 2004 generation - mirrored I believe with Englands own generation of Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerard, Cole - the team imploded on itself drunk on ego and players picked based on reputation and popularity than form. You could see this with the number of public disputes/arguments and on field squabbling between the players.

It seems, however, that despite a new generation the Dutch team has carried that negative culture over.

Sad end to what was two great generations of players.

iclestu

DonDaddyD wrote:

The Dutch team has had issues for a number of years now - last World Cup not withstanding, though the Final was indicative of those is issues.

It seems that the Dutch team struggled with the transition from the 1996 - 2004 generation (That's the Kliuvert, Frank and Ronald de Boer, Edgar Davids, Clarence Seedorf, Marc Overmars, Jaap Stam generation) to the 2006 - 2012 generation of Van Persie, Robben, Van der Vaart and Sneijder.

By the end of the 2004 generation - mirrored I believe with Englands own generation of Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerard, Cole - the team imploded on itself drunk on ego and players picked based on reputation and popularity than form. You could see this with the number of public disputes/arguments and on field squabbling between the players.

It seems, however, that despite a new generation the Dutch team has carried that negative culture over.

Sad end to what was two great generations of players.

yeah - thats quite insightful DDD. Agree wholeheartedly.

Coaching staff gotta take blame for that sort of thing IMHO. Develop the right attitude in your players or drop them until they do.

rick_chasey

The 2010 world cup is a massive BUT in that analysis.

You don't get to a world cup final by chance.

shouldbeinbed

Theres example of far poorer teams getting quite a way, Turkey, South Korea, Cameroon etc at recent world cups, Greece and Denmark winning Euros, if I remember the African cup of nations was a but unpredictable last time out. A lucky game in a small group and the knock out stages are something of a lottery for unknown quantity teams or a talented group not playing as a team. Unfortunately for the netherlands, this time their lack of cohesion was too much for the individuals to make up.

The Poles aren't really out either, its just their best players have German tops on

DonDaddyD

Rick Chasey wrote:

The 2010 world cup is a massive BUT in that analysis.

You don't get to a world cup final by chance.

I don't think it is. I'm talking about argaubly the third greatest generation of Dutch players (Gullit era being the first and best followed by DeBoer and Overmars' generation).

Great teams normally come with players who have big personalities and ego's. When those teams come together you get World Cup 2010.

They also implode and that what we saw here. Same thing happen to France, it's happened to Brazil, Italy and England. No harm, no foul. A new collection of players will step up, probably led by Afellay - who will have signed for Arsenal, Elia on the wing, Georginio Wijnaldum, tough tackling Anita, Pieters, Strootman and van der Wiel. Held together by a mature van der Vaart and it'll be like "Robben who?"

daviesee

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't think it is. I'm talking about argaubly the third greatest generation of Dutch players (Gullit era being the first and best followed by DeBoer and Overmars' generation).

So where does the Johan Cruyff era come in all this :?: :?

rick_chasey

For me, the main difference in the 2010 Dutch team and the 2012 team is the enormous lack of positional discipline.

The 2010 Dutch team, with their two defensive midfielders, were very well organised - to make up for their obvious lack of defending talent. They had a lot of structure when defending.

This team has none. The teams is broadly the same with the exception of van Bronkhorst to the 2010 team, so it's obviously not that.

That and the form of Robben and van Persie and Huntelaar were poor too.

Snijder and possibly Stekelenberg were the only players I thought gave a good account of themselves.

Ben6899

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't think it is. I'm talking about argaubly the third greatest generation of Dutch players (Gullit era being the first and best followed by DeBoer and Overmars' generation).

So where does the Johan Cruyff era come in all this :?: :?

Daviesee took the words right out of my mouth!

Cruyff
Neeskens
Repp
Haan
Krol

DonDaddyD

daviesee wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't think it is. I'm talking about argaubly the third greatest generation of Dutch players (Gullit era being the first and best followed by DeBoer and Overmars' generation).

So where does the Johan Cruyff era come in all this :?: :?

Wasn't Cruyff one really great player. In a international team of decent - good players. Where as the generations I'm talking are a team of great players.