thinking of going clipless

Paul Stumpy FSR

I've always ridden flats, but doing longer distances these days so want to try clipless pedals to get more efficient as my legs usually give up.
now, i like the look of the crank brothers candy 2 pedals and the Shimano MT43 shoes.
would these be a good combo for a beginner or am I way off the mark? i gather different makes have different cleats so would these shoes be ok with these pedals?
would i be better off with a pedal with a larger cage round them incase i struggle to clip in?
thanks
Paul

supersonic

Clipless does not make you more efficient. It will mean your feet will always be in the same position (which, when you find that spot, will help you keep it there).

Sure give it a go, but don't expect some massive gain in performance, it just isn't there.

Paul Stumpy FSR

really? i thought the fact u are pulling up as well as pushing down you get better efficiency.
one of my mates has just done the switch and he leaves me for dead on the hills now. perhaps he's just fitter.

supersonic

It's a myth - pulling up uses muscles that are much less efficient, wearing you out quicker! It can add more power in certain situations - but that is not efficiency.

Some find it easier to spin the pedals with clipless, which can make it more efficient. But the primary gain is as above, the feet been in the optimum place always. When you find it ;-).

Paul Stumpy FSR

hhhmmm interesting. i guess its down to user preference then
thanks

supersonic

It is. I absolutely bloody hate them lol, but encourage anybody to have a go and find out! for themsleves!

Briggo

supersonic wrote:

It's a myth

Erm, really?

supersonic

Actively pulling up on the pedals does not increase efficiency. Numerous tests have shown that the muscles involved are (for the most) much less developed than the quads, and quite a lot less efficient.

supersonic

Good starter here:

http://suite101.com/article/road-bike-p ... ue-a147197

Greer_

Briggo wrote:

supersonic wrote:

It's a myth

Erm, really?

I usually only find myself pulling up on the pedals if I need that extra bit to get over a rock/root etc.

A cage makes it easier to clip in, but it does start to become second nature. I used Shimano M424's to start with, but the cage annoyed me so I swapped them for M520's. Specific shoes will work with any pedals. The cleats come with the pedals. I know a lot of people prefer shimano over CB as they don't like the amount of float.

You'll get the hang of it soon enough if you go for them, just don't ride on the road until you do!

Briggo

Greer_ wrote:

Briggo wrote:

supersonic wrote:

It's a myth

Erm, really?

I usually only find myself pulling up on the pedals if I need that extra bit to get over a rock/root etc.

A cage makes it easier to clip in, but it does start to become second nature. I used Shimano M424's to start with, but the cage annoyed me so I swapped them for M520's. Specific shoes will work with any pedals. The cleats come with the pedals. I know a lot of people prefer shimano over CB as they don't like the amount of float.

You'll get the hang of it soon enough if you go for them, just don't ride on the road until you do!

I ride flats and clipless and I can certainly feel the difference in my ability to pedal better for longer with clipless, but I wouldn't ride clipped in when I hit the gnarly stuff though too chicken for that.

al2098

From my experience of road and mountain..
On my road bike nudging shoulders with Lemond (not really.. :roll: )I noted that when climbing out of the saddle, the pedals would keep your feet from moving about and its difficult to position them when standing and making a real effort.
If I tried pulling up I would get a weeks worth of knee pain and it did not seem to make any difference to performance.
It felt good when spinning but I would agree with Supersonic that it was just psychological. There are published scientificy type stuff out there about the pull- up- push down thing and it tends to agree with that.
On the MTB I would never ride clipped in as I don't fancy taking the bike with me whilst crashing. In fact some of my most memorable stupid falls have been low speed 'unable to unclip in time' falls. Funny that I should fall on a big jump in South France and tear up my shirt and get some ground rash and then some months later go around a sheep gate clipped in, lose balance, can't unclip and land on my shoulder jarring it and suffering for 6 months.
IMO a good flat pedal and top shoes (ie; 5/10's) will keep you in the game.

Briggo

SS that article isn't about its not efficient, its saying you need to learn to perform a certain technique and only pull during X.

That to me is exactly the difference between flat and clipless and was the first thing I noticed just by feel when I tried it, you can't pull the whole entire cycle it just feels uncomfortable for a start, you only pull up momentarily while your opposite leg is then pushing down. (I thought that was common sense tbh)

The only time I really pull up is when standing out of the saddle to power up a short hill, but then I only use clipless locally on the stuff I know while doing 'training rides' plus I find it less fun to ride clipped in because it's the mental factor knowing I have to unclip then put my leg out to save myself.

Riding flats is far more fun as I have that mental factor knowing that I'm a little safer so I ride a bit more stupid

Greer_

My crashes were mainly low speed one (they are the funniest!) until I got used to them. Any time I've fallen after that, I've always somehow managed to clip out without realising.

Paul Stumpy FSR

Greer_ wrote:

I usually only find myself pulling up on the pedals if I need that extra bit to get over a rock/root etc.

A cage makes it easier to clip in, but it does start to become second nature. I used Shimano M424's to start with, but the cage annoyed me so I swapped them for M520's. Specific shoes will work with any pedals. The cleats come with the pedals. I know a lot of people prefer shimano over CB as they don't like the amount of float.

You'll get the hang of it soon enough if you go for them, just don't ride on the road until you do!

thanks. my mate has just got the m424's and is liking them, although he had about 3 or 4 slow speeds falls at the weekend because he couldnt unclip. thats my biggest fear.
what is float? i've heard this mentioned a few times.

al2098 wrote:

From my experience of road and mountain..
On my road bike nudging shoulders with Lemond (not really.. :roll: )I noted that when climbing out of the saddle, the pedals would keep your feet from moving about and its difficult to position them when standing and making a real effort.
If I tried pulling up I would get a weeks worth of knee pain and it did not seem to make any difference to performance.
It felt good when spinning but I would agree with Supersonic that it was just psychological. There are published scientificy type stuff out there about the pull- up- push down thing and it tends to agree with that.
On the MTB I would never ride clipped in as I don't fancy taking the bike with me whilst crashing. In fact some of my most memorable stupid falls have been low speed 'unable to unclip in time' falls. Funny that I should fall on a big jump in South France and tear up my shirt and get some ground rash and then some months later go around a sheep gate clipped in, lose balance, can't unclip and land on my shoulder jarring it and suffering for 6 months.
IMO a good flat pedal and top shoes (ie; 5/10's) will keep you in the game.

thats got to suck. again, thats what i worry about when coming to a stop, then just falling off.
i do like to ride single track, like the surrey hills, but would definately be nervous about trying that out when new to clips.
i also dont want to spend too much money to find i dont like them. what about my suggestions?
i dont want to set off an argument about flats v clips, like xbox or ps3
thanks all

supersonic

Briggo wrote:

SS that article isn't about its not efficient, its saying you need to learn to perform a certain technique and only pull during X.

That to me is exactly the difference between flat and clipless and was the first thing I noticed just by feel when I tried it, you can't pull the whole entire cycle it just feels uncomfortable for a start, you only pull up momentarily while your opposite leg is then pushing down. (I thought that was common sense tbh)

The only time I really pull up is when standing out of the saddle to power up a short hill, but then I only use clipless locally on the stuff I know plus I find it less fun to ride clipped in because it's the mental factor knowing I have to unclip then put my leg out to save myself.

Riding flats is far more fun as I have that mental factor knowing that I'm a little safer so I ride a bit more stupid

It is about pedalling technique and cadence - trying to pull up (hard - or even not much!) will fatigue you quicker. Unweighting the pedal can help that dead spot, but this is not an active pull up, and you don't need clips for that. More about pushing around in an oval.

But as earlier, it can help people to find a better rhythm and foot position which in turn may help them gain effiency with the right technique. Poor technique can still be had on clipless, infact I see it alot.

386ka

Paul Stumpy FSR wrote:

Greer_ wrote:

I usually only find myself pulling up on the pedals if I need that extra bit to get over a rock/root etc.

A cage makes it easier to clip in, but it does start to become second nature. I used Shimano M424's to start with, but the cage annoyed me so I swapped them for M520's. Specific shoes will work with any pedals. The cleats come with the pedals. I know a lot of people prefer shimano over CB as they don't like the amount of float.

You'll get the hang of it soon enough if you go for them, just don't ride on the road until you do!

thanks. my mate has just got the m424's and is liking them, although he had about 3 or 4 slow speeds falls at the weekend because he couldnt unclip. thats my biggest fear.
what is float? i've heard this mentioned a few times.

al2098 wrote:

From my experience of road and mountain..
On my road bike nudging shoulders with Lemond (not really.. :roll: )I noted that when climbing out of the saddle, the pedals would keep your feet from moving about and its difficult to position them when standing and making a real effort.
If I tried pulling up I would get a weeks worth of knee pain and it did not seem to make any difference to performance.
It felt good when spinning but I would agree with Supersonic that it was just psychological. There are published scientificy type stuff out there about the pull- up- push down thing and it tends to agree with that.
On the MTB I would never ride clipped in as I don't fancy taking the bike with me whilst crashing. In fact some of my most memorable stupid falls have been low speed 'unable to unclip in time' falls. Funny that I should fall on a big jump in South France and tear up my shirt and get some ground rash and then some months later go around a sheep gate clipped in, lose balance, can't unclip and land on my shoulder jarring it and suffering for 6 months.
IMO a good flat pedal and top shoes (ie; 5/10's) will keep you in the game.

thats got to suck. again, thats what i worry about when coming to a stop, then just falling off.
i do like to ride single track, like the surrey hills, but would definitely be nervous about trying that out when new to clips.
i also dont want to spend too much money to find i dont like them. what about my suggestions?
i dont want to set off an argument about flats v clips, like xbox or ps3
thanks all

I bought Look Quartz clipless pedals a few weeks ago. Haven't been proper mountain biking since (health issues), but I can tell you that they are way easier to unclip than SPD's. I've been in some situations when I forget to unclip in time (by twisting the leg), and just naturally pulling them sideways hard, they unclip. So, I haven't had any funny slow-mo accidents.
They also give some float like CB. And, they are relatively cheap.

Briggo

Fatigue you quicker? I'm yet to find that in my comparisons, either that or you're just an unfit bastard

supersonic

I have ankles like two twigs haha!

MDobs

Ultimately the only way to know if it's any good for you is to give it a try. the cheapest shimano pedals are around £20 and a cheap pair of SPD shoes like DHBs are about 40-50. They take a bit of getting used to and might well be situational for you depending on what/where you ride, i didn't use mine in the winter but am back on them now. After the first ride i felt it in my legs where i hadn't used the muscles for a while but next ride was fine.

Falling off will happen a few times but as mentioned it's normally slow speed stuff... first time i used mine i went up the farm lane out of my village and met a tractor coming the other way. Pulled off into a grassy gate way and came to a stop completely forgetting i had them on and toppled over just as the tractor came past with the bloke laughing his arse off at me as I lay on the floor trying to get my feet out (actually far harder than when upright)!

bennett_346

Of course guys, remember placebo works! Even if you aren't really any more efficient, if it feels easier in your head, it is easier!

I've ran clipless and flat both on and off road and prefer the clipless for mtb and flats for road. Weird yep. But the biggest benefit of clipess i'd say is climbing tricky terrain as when the cranks reach the dead spot lifting the rear over something you can pull on the pedal instead.

felix.london

Greer_ wrote:

Any time I've fallen after that, I've always somehow managed to clip out without realising.

Yep - any big or even medium stack and you'll come unclipped. I've never crashed and taken the bike with me!

I tried some Crack Brothers pedals and didn't really like them. Have had Shimano SPD's (with Specialized Tahoe's) on the 'hopper since I bought it and do everything on them - XC to DH. Then again, I used to ride around London like a lunatic using toe-clips back in my first MTB life - guess I just like being attached to the bike. Although those old strap-in systems were f.ing dangerous

Saying that I've got flats on the DH bike and get on fine with them and I'll be putting flats on the NP Snap build I'm doing too.

YeehaaMcgee

Oh no, not this old chestnut. I swear, SPD threads should be locked as soon as anyone mentions pulling up :roll:

aaaanyhoooo.

Paul Stumpy FSR wrote:

want to try clipless pedals to get more efficient as my legs usually give up.

The only thing that will stop making your legs give up, is getting fitter.

pilch

I ride clipped in everywhere, Shimano pedals on all my bikes - I only use multi-release cleats though, much easier to get out of when it hits the fan... I have no idea whether it is more or less efficient, I just prefer the locked in feeling.

.blitz

SPDs are a system that strengthens the weakest part of the leg ie the foot. Any talk of increased pedalling efficiency by being clipped in or in the right position is nonsense what Shimano (and others) have done is to give you huge flat pedals (the shoes) and axles (the pedals) to fasten them to your bike. If SPDs were 300mm long flat pedals no one would buy them.

Some people go faster with SPDs because they make it easier to push harder for longer

supersonic

or in the right position is nonsense

That bit is not nonsense - having the foot in a specific position on the pedal can result in more effective pedalling - SPDs will always have you in that position ie you can fiddle with cleat position.

Of course you can still do it with flats, but when you put your foot back on the pedal it may be a little out. Or way out, as I see with many people! Clipless gives you more confidence in remaining in the same position.

All comes down to the rider and preference in the end, but many do like the security and predictability of th eposition of SPDs.

.blitz

What I was trying to say is that there's a lot of emphasis on having the feet in the 'right position' on the pedals as if one position is the right position for every situation.

While I agree there's an optimum position for pedalling efficiency and SPDs make it easier to find and reproduce that position there are also times when your feet need to be somewhere else on the pedals.

Twelly

.blitz wrote:

there are also times when your feet need to be somewhere else

Exactly. Like when you are going down a big hill, you should be swinging your feet out to the sides and shouting 'WEEEEEEEEEE!'

.blitz

precisely

supersonic

Oh I agree, which is why I don't use them hehe.

jairaj

Am I correct in thinking that while pulling on your SPD pedals is less efficient, it is more powerful as you are using muscles at would normally be resting?