thinking of going clipless

supersonic

It can be at certain cadences, yes.

YeehaaMcgee

hmm. I still heavily doubt that. Are we really going to get into the whole "what are you pulling against" thing again?

supersonic

It's about wording again - power, torque, force, efficiency and so on. Many people (including myself) use 'power' when they shouldn't.

YeehaaMcgee

Me too. The sad thing is, I know when I shouldn't use "power", but I still do it, because it conveys in plain english what I often mean - even though it's almost always misinterpreted!
But, I digress. I still maintain that in order to pull on the pedal, you're reducing the effectiveness of the front foot. And, since the front foot is far more effective, then you're just wasting your time.

supersonic

Yeah, power is one of those words that has come about to mean so much more!

Some of the reading on the physics of pedaling is quite interesting - they study the variation force and torque throught the 360 degrees, and how it varies with different pedaling methods. Force effectiveness does not equate to efficiency (ie the force vector compared to the tangent of the pedal - pushing off line is still more effective than pulling inline because the muscles invloved are more efficient). Cadence too ie negative torque graphs, maximum power and so on.

Also interesting to look at how things change on recumbants.

supersonic

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... 4pj5WnxJUw

YeehaaMcgee

supersonic wrote:

Also interesting to look at how things change on recumbants.

Indeed, because your back is braced in an actual seat, which you can push against, so you can put far more force through the pedals than with a normal bicycle.

DodgeT

I have a wonky ring ( ) and flats, best of both worlds

jairaj

hmm this has got me thinking maybe I should try my old flats again?

I'm an clipless convert, I "seemed" to go up hills and accelerate better than with flats. I've been using them for a while now and feel confident using them on most things until recently when I got the urge to learn how to do jumps.

Twelly

I've been SPD'd for over a year now and a couple of weeks ago I went to my usual trail with my cheap throwabout bike which has flats fitted - hated it.

The only time I will ride flats now is to and from the girlfriends house when I cant be arsed to put my clumpy SPD shoes on.

jairaj

dragging up an old thread but there is a good article over on Pinkbike about pedalling and what muscles you use that I thought might be of interest.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Which-Muscles-are-Really-Used-During-the-Pedal-Stroke-2012.html

cooldad

jairaj wrote:

dragging up an old thread but there is a good article over on Pinkbike about peddling

Selling stolen bikes?

jairaj

doh! sorry corrected now. :oops:

cooldad

Close enough.

bennett_346

I don't listen to any of the crap about efficiency and muscles and pulling up and pushing or whatever, i've never felt more efficient on clips than on flats.

I just like clipless because i like the feel and i'm used to ski bindings so it feels right to me.

YeehaaMcgee

You ride in ski boots?

bennett_346

Yeah you should give it a go, who needs laced shoes anyway.

YeehaaMcgee

I have ridden in snowboard boots when it was snowy, and I was drunk.

bamba

Regarding foot position,on a platform pedal, what is the correct position ? ball of the foot over the center or front ?
or is this a individual thing ?

YeehaaMcgee

bamba wrote:

Regarding foot position,on a platform pedal, what is the correct position ? ball of the foot over the center or front ?
or is this a individual thing ?

Well, the "ideal" position is the same as with SPDs, ball of the foot on or near the axle.
However, the nice thing about flats is that you can shift your foot about to get more grip, to throw the back end about, or to absorb bigger impacts and so on.

bamba

Good oh, was wondering if im doing it right or wrong, one of those thing I dont really think about.

rockmonkeysc

supersonic wrote:

or in the right position is nonsense

That bit is not nonsense - having the foot in a specific position on the pedal can result in more effective pedalling - SPDs will always have you in that position ie you can fiddle with cleat position.

Of course you can still do it with flats, but when you put your foot back on the pedal it may be a little out. Or way out, as I see with many people! Clipless gives you more confidence in remaining in the same position.

All comes down to the rider and preference in the end, but many do like the security and predictability of th eposition of SPDs.

This is the only reason I use SPD pedals. I have started to use them for downhill as well & once I get used to it they should be great for stopping my feet moving around on jumps & through rough sections.
I notice no increase in efficiency for xc riding, not saying it doesn't exist but I don't notice it.