Help for Heroes.........

Vesterberg

1 - military service does not make you a hero. Hitler was a brave corporal.

2 - most squaddies aren't heroic volunteers, they're bored unemployables trapped in recruitment towns who fancy a bit of war tourism.

discuss.

GiantMike

Help for heroes is a charity to support injured troops. For every dead soldier thare are around 5 who return with life-changing injuries, amputees, loss of sight etc.

The name of the charity is designed to make an impact and raise awareness.

Please have some respect and choose a different way to pass your time this weekend. Is your bike broke or something?

http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/?gclid= ... fAodj2S2Yw

Vesterberg

thanks for the PR. is it not up for debate then or should we just unthinkingly put hand in pocket?

where does charity begin? who is 'deserving' and what are the criteria?

i kind of find the 'ride bike but don't ask awkward questions' philosophy fairly lamentable. but each to their own.

jordan_217

Vesterberg wrote:

1 - military service does not make you a hero. Hitler was a brave corporal.

2 - most squaddies aren't heroic volunteers, they're bored unemployables trapped in recruitment towns who fancy a bit of war tourism.

discuss.

I've lost a number of friends and acquaintances whilst they were SERVING THEIR COUNTRY overseas. I've also had the humbling experience of spending a few weeks at Hedley Court with people of our Armed Forces, who have suffered terrible life changing injuries.

Yes they get paid for it, yes the volunteer to pledge their allegiance to the crown but you obviously don't sound like you understand what their duties can include, when serving at home or overseas.

The HFH charity was not established to just give money to those that have signed up, look at the link posted by GM and educate yourself before you post such insensitive, uninformed 5hi7e in future.

Have you earned any medals for serving your country?

My Wife retires from the RAF after 14 years service, next month. She has served overseas, has been part of numerous operations at home and overseas and has a few medals to show for it. Has she been injured or been shot at in a war zone? No but to me and my Kids think she's a hero nonetheless. She's never got out of doing a single duty or tour, sometimes putting pressure on our family life but she's a dedicated professional and I'm so proud of her. Looking hot in her uniform helps too.

Now seriously, show some respect.

Vesterberg

^^ this is the kind of knee jerk guff that really gets my goat. can you please point point out exactly what is 'uninformed shite' from my first post?

"Have you earned any medals for serving your country?" errr no. But I do have 5m swimming badge. Does this make my opinions invalid? Am I a lesser citizen?

I'm trying to start a bit of a debate about 'duty' and 'serve' - words which your happy to bandy about but perhaps don't wish to think too deeply about.

Vesterberg

BTW - I'm well known for being a 'troll' so you might wish to take whatever I say with a pinch of salt.

I'm also a proud poppy wearer and am quite prepared to 'show some respect' for the old boys who fought Hitler.

team47b

Are you honestly saying you don't know what you are saying, and why it might be considered inappropriate?

Rhetorical question BTW.

Vesterberg

team47b wrote:

Are you honestly saying you don't know what you are saying, and why it might be considered inappropriate?

Rhetorical question BTW.

I'm honestly saying I'm undecided about HFH and I'm honestly saying I'm a (bad) devil's advocate and a troll.

I do abhor unthinking devotion to a cause though.

I'm also sorry if I seem disrespectful, especially where people have lost friends, but that doesn't mean questions can't be asked.

MattC59

I think that there's a fine line between Trolling and being a bell end. You may have just crossed it.

Vesterberg

MattC59 wrote:

I think that there's a fine line between Trolling and being a bell end. You may have just crossed it.

ah Matt, enlightened and engaging as always. being called a bell-end by your good self, bell-end extraodinaire, is a compliment to end all compliments

sandyballs

Sad, Sad man. Cycling is a great pastime that can build friendships. Trolling is for sad sad men, move to another pastime please.

mr_goo

H4H is an exceptionally worthwhile cause, and long may it serve those who need to call upon it.

Our world is infested with media hype to worship overpaid footballers (most of whom could not hold down a shelf stacking job at LIDL), equally thick & ignorant pop/rap stars and a celebrity culture that has gone way too over the top.

Therefore I think it is highly appropriate to honour those who put there lives on the line, and serve their country for a comparable pittance, with the title HERO.

team47b

Vesterberg wrote:

team47b wrote:

Are you honestly saying you don't know what you are saying, and why it might be considered inappropriate?

Rhetorical question BTW.

I'm honestly saying I'm undecided about HFH and I'm honestly saying I'm a (bad) devil's advocate and a troll.

I do abhor unthinking devotion to a cause though.

I'm also sorry if I seem disrespectful, especially where people have lost friends, but that doesn't mean questions can't be asked.

Rhetorical question BTW.

finchy

Personally I wouldn't give a penny to HFH. I always give generously to the British legion, but HFH too often comes across as being a pro-war charity through its rhetoric - ie that I should help these soldiers because somehow they are doing ME a favour by fighting in these wars I think are a complete waste of time and money. I also don't want to support a charity for wounded soldiers which has climbed into bed with newspapers like the Sun, which campaigned so vociferously for these soldiers to be sent over to the deserts to get shot at. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't want soldiers returning with serious injuries (and I don't), then stop glamourising war.

rolf_f

I think HRH is hitting a demographic that the British Legion probably succeed less well at so in that respect perhaps fills a useful gap. I also support the Royal British Legion (http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/) and part of me thinks it is a shame that anyone would think it necessary to set up an alternative charity that partially covers the same cause (though HRH has a narrower remit irrc) - but HRH does pull in the money so surely it has to be a good thing?

As for the term Hero - the tabloid newspapers have undoubtedly devalued it (they'd have everyone on active service receive the VC). There is a huge difference between driving a landrover down a road and randomly getting blown up and the act of running out of a checkpoint at someone you have a high degree of certainty to be a suicide bomber and stopping them, possibly at the cost of your own life, before they get close enough to kill more. One is a brave person doing a necessary job that I wouldn't want to do and the other is a hero.

You can get all saccharine about it and say they are both heroes but ultimately, you still need a term to distinguish the two and calling everyone who serves on active duty a hero does a disservice to those who really do go beyond the call of duty.

graham.

Rolf F wrote:

I think HRH is hitting a demographic that the British Legion probably succeed less well at so in that respect perhaps fills a useful gap. I also support the Royal British Legion (http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/) and part of me thinks it is a shame that anyone would think it necessary to set up an alternative charity that partially covers the same cause (though HRH has a narrower remit irrc) - but HRH does pull in the money so surely it has to be a good thing?

As for the term Hero - the tabloid newspapers have undoubtedly devalued it (they'd have everyone on active service receive the VC). There is a huge difference between driving a landrover down a road and randomly getting blown up and the act of running out of a checkpoint at someone you have a high degree of certainty to be a suicide bomber and stopping them, possibly at the cost of your own life, before they get close enough to kill more. One is a brave person doing a necessary job that I wouldn't want to do and the other is a hero.

You can get all saccharine about it and say they are both heroes but ultimately, you still need a term to distinguish the two and calling everyone who serves on active duty a hero does a disservice to those who really do go beyond the call of duty.

Best post on a valid thread so far.

socrates

It matters nothing if we stop glamourising war. it's the politicians who decide to send young people to countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. Note they dont send themselves. I also wonder how many politicians sons & daughters are serving there.

fast as fupp

socrates wrote:

It matters nothing if we stop glamourising war. it's the politicians who decide to send young people to countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. Note they dont send themselves. I also wonder how many politicians sons & daughters are serving there.

hey! wasnt prince henry caught on film engaging johnny towel-head in mortal kombat?

bobs bikes

sorry if i sound like a bell end too, but i do not support the charity at all. the government send them to war and we should pay when they are injured? no, the government should look after them, not us.

CambsNewbie

bobs bikes wrote:

sorry if i sound like a bell end too, but i do not support the charity at all. the government send them to war and we should pay when they are injured? no, the government should look after them, not us.

I support them but they should never have to exist. If the government is going to send men and women into war then it has a moral obligation to provide them with the best possible equipment whilst they are there, and when they get injured then provide the best possible medical care. No ifs or buts and regardless of cost.

sandyballs

bobs bikes wrote:

sorry if i sound like a bell end too, but i do not support the charity at all. the government send them to war and we should pay when they are injured? no, the government should look after them, not us.

No you do not sound like a bell end, like all who live in a democracy you can choose which charity to support and for what reason. The OP however never made reason for the validity of the charity but more the motives and actions of the people that the charity aids. I do not give to H4H but do give to RBL, BLESMA and other charities ,it is personal choice based on what the charity actually does with the money for each group.

EKIMIKE

Wow this a thread ripe with 'Bigot Bait'...

It's good to be critical (remember, this word doesn't mean 'criticise' - it means to formulate a reasoned judgement, good or bad) when giving money to charities because there are good and bad charities.

Clearly if injured servicemen are not being cared for adequately and therefore need a charitable organisation to support them then the military are mis-managing their budget. I don't know the full extent of Help For Heroes' activites but i should hope that this is part of their message,campaigning and advocacy. If not, then they ought to.

Charities too often focus on symptoms of problems, not the problems themselves. I'm not saying this is the case with Help For Heroes but it is in the wider charity industry.

EKIMIKE

Mr Goo wrote:

Therefore I think it is highly appropriate to honour those who put there lives on the line, and serve their country for a comparable pittance, with the title HEROE.

:roll: I know spelling and grammar pedantry is annoying but if you're going to type it in capitals and put it in bold font then it's generally a good idea to check your spelling

As for this medals thing. It has no bearing on any debate to do with a charity which supports injured servicemen and women. If we were talking about the technicalities of military service on the other hand...

Kind of like the fact that a few people i know who openly support HFH are pretty distasteful people who are bigoted and xenophobic (maybe racist too). That won't affect my judgement of HFH as a charity though because the supporters invariably just donate money. They aren't responsible for the activities of the charity.

Nothing, not even medals, entitles anyone to a monopoly on debate and opinion.

mattshrops

Vesterberg - a poor 3/10 really. you were hoping for raging argument and instead got reasoned debate. Must try harder :oops: You may have to hand back your troll club badge.

GiantMike

Vesterberg wrote:

thanks for the PR. is it not up for debate then or should we just unthinkingly put hand in pocket?

Are you some kind of idiot? Sorry, but I and you don't inderstand what your debate is supposed to be about. Are you criticising the charity or the squaddies? If you don't want to donate, don't. Where's the debate?

Vesterberg wrote:

where does charity begin? who is 'deserving' and what are the criteria?

Are you some kind of idiot? Charity begins where you want it to. YOU decide who is deserving. Personally, I wouldn't donate to the 'Suffolk Daisy Trust', but I wouldn't try trolling the internet to open a 'debate' about it.

Vesterberg wrote:

i kind of find the 'ride bike but don't ask awkward questions' philosophy fairly lamentable. but each to their own.

Are you some kind of idiot? You weren't asking 'awkward questions', you were trolling.

Go on then, what raised your hackles so much that you decided to start a 'debate' titled after a charity but that then immediately questioned the qualities of the recipients? I'm looking forward to your next thread, something like....

Age Concern?

Old people are all paedophiles and shoplifters.

Discuss.

EKIMIKE

So are people just going to slag off the OP or actually post something reasoned and persuasive in reply?

Ironically i think he's getting at something here - many people (at least no here) are as poorly reasoned as the OP, just a little more politically correct... It's quite funny actually.

GiantMike

EKIMIKE wrote:

So are people just going to slag off the OP or actually post something reasoned and persuasive in reply?.

But what is his point?

Vesterberg wrote:

I'm honestly saying I'm undecided about HFH and I'm honestly saying I'm a (bad) devil's advocate and a troll.

Is this his point? He's undecided about something? I'm undecided about leaves, but I don't start a thread about it!

essjaydee

Vesterberg wrote:

1 - military service does not make you a hero. Hitler was a brave corporal.

2 - most squaddies aren't heroic volunteers, they're bored unemployables trapped in recruitment towns who fancy a bit of war tourism.

discuss.

1. Agreed on first part. Disagree on the second part,

2. I certainly wasn't "a bored unemployable", but decided to join up (which took me 18 months) and served for 22 years. It gave me a skilled trade and a varied and reasonably well paid career, as well as working in some very varied parts of the world in a totally unique and dynamic environment.

I don't believe you posted this to create debate, but you obviously enjoy winding people up and then trying to justify your ill conceived dribble. Is this the definition of a troll?

I do agree though, that you are indeed a mahoosive bell end

jim453

Why do you disagree with the part about Hitler being a brave corporal? It appears to be one of the only statements here that is a matter of fact not opinion.

baldwin471

I'll get my popcorn 8)

GiantMike

jim453 wrote:

Why do you disagree with the part about Hitler being a brave corporal? It appears to be one of the only statements here that is a matter of fact not opinion.

WTF does Hitler have to do with HFH?

Would anybody like to donate to my new charity, 'Help for Bell-Ends'. There's a clear cry for help from the OP that we can't ignore. With your help we could get him/her and support he/she needs to overcome his/her addiction to trolling. Maybe those unemployable squaddies could pop round for a nice cup of tea and a chat.