Make change from Shimano gearing to Campagnolo gearing ?
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I've got small hands and indeed the campagnolo levers are much nicer to use...the shims shimano supply do little to help in reality. When im at home tonight and not using my mobile phone to write this, i'll run through what works and what does not from my personal experience.0
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There are numerous bodges to let you use Campag levers with otherwise Shimano gear sets. Some work better than others. Fitting the correct Jtek Shiftmate is probably the most reliable. I believe 10sp Campag shifters will work with 9sp Shimano. Check this article out.Raffles wrote:From a bit of research, its apparent that the shifters which Campy supply are an awful lot shorter than the ones which Shimano sell. Shorter reach shifters would make such a comfort difference to my bike. I use Sora shifters, FSA front mech, 105 compact double and 105 rear derailleur at this time. Which componentry would I need to change if I opted to go for Campy gearing that would allow me to fit shorter reach shifters ?
http://beta.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/components/transmission-gears/derailleur-gears/shimergo0 -
I moved across to Campagnolo for exactly the same reason in 2008. The smaller levers make it so much easier for me to brake from the hoods, meaning that I feel in much better control especially on long descents.
So to make it work there are several options. These generally fall into two brackets, products which will allow Campagnolo and Shimano products to interface, or picking Shimano and Campagnolo which just happen to be so closely matched that they will work together.
In your situation, currently running 9speed I would do one of a few things, starting with the worst bodge:
1. Ultimate Bodge.
Buy Veloce Ergolevers £74 (ribble), and fit them to your bike. 'Hubbub' the rear mech - http://www.hubbubcustom.com/articles_ergopower.html . I've found this set-up hard to master to be honest, and it's never really worked consistently for me, needing re-adjusting regularly.
2. Ultimate Bodge 2
Buy Veloce Ergolevers £74 (ribble) along with a Veloce rear mech (£55) and fit them to your bike. This set-up will undershift marginally (by 0.2mm per shift). Therefore you need to set up your indexing from the middle of the cassette, so its no more than 0.8mm out at each end of the cassette. In reality this works pretty well, if not perfectly. Not that it helps you, but just to note it works with a Shimano 10speed cassette also (with a 0.2mm overshift) - The new Powershift 10speed indexes a Shimano 10speed cassette brilliantly!
3. Mid-bodge
Buy Veloce Ergolevers £74 along with the appropriate Jtek Shiftmate (£35)
4. Mid-bodge
Buy some pre-2011 10speed levers such as these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2010-Campagno ... 231e02093a
Along with a Shimano 8speed cassette (£15). Leave everything else as it is, it will index perfectly.
5. Play it safe.
Buy Veloce Ergolevers (£74), Veloce rear mech (£55), 10speed Chain (£20), and a converter cassette with a shimano spline but spaced for campagnolo (£30) - http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/17 ... sette.html
The more you spend, the more compatable you'll make it basically. Plus you'll be able to recoup a good 30%-50% of the cost by selling your existing kit on ebay.0 -
Oh and just to set the record straight, indeed the barrel adjuster does just vary the cable tension, it does not alter the pull of the lever or the actuation ratio.
What I think the gentleman may have been meaning is that you can use the barrel adjuster to make minor adjustments, as to where the mech indexes from. If you use the 'Ultimate Bodge 2 ' from above, you need to use the adjuster to make sure that the mech is indexed perfectly to the middle sproket of the cassette, so it is not too far out at either end of the cluster (along with the limiter screws, so it does not throw the chain).0 -
My understanding is that 11-speed campag levers will work with a 9-speed shimano setup (similar as using the 10 speed levers with 8 speed shimano). It's referred to as Shimergo.
If the post 2011 10-speed levers won't work with 8-speed shimano, it's because they've moved over to the same cable pull as 11-speed - in which case, they should work with 9-speed shimano (though that's just an assumption).0 -
g00se wrote:My understanding is that 11-speed campag levers will work with a 9-speed shimano setup (similar as using the 10 speed levers with 8 speed shimano). It's referred to as Shimergo.
If the post 2011 10-speed levers won't work with 8-speed shimano, it's because they've moved over to the same cable pull as 11-speed - in which case, they should work with 9-speed shimano (though that's just an assumption).
Yes indeed, if you look at the figures the 11sp Ergo's with 9sp Shimano should work, however I've not come across many people who say they have tried it. I nearly tired it, but the downside is there is no bail out option, with the 10speed options you can always buy a shiftmate, of a conversion cassette for £30, if you are not happy with the performance of a bodge.
There is also little published about what changed about the cable pull pre and post 2011. All I know is i've used both 2009 and 2012 Veloce with a 10speed Shimano cassette and if you set them up carefully they both work very well (as I said the 2012 Veloce with a Shimano cassette seems to shift better than my 2009 full Campagnolo groupset).0 -
Ahhh, some measured responses at last; thank you one and all. And I take on board your comments about maybe not understanding the physics/engineering aspect but I did say I wasn't the mechanic! I was just the sales guy who helped the mechanic during those quiet times... And nice to think that some of you have offered good advice as to how this might be achieved, which will be very useful for the OP.
Now, I wonder what I'll get back from others :?0 -
andy_wrx wrote:Look at this post - it's his bike
viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12855259
Spec includes (my italics)Chorus 9spd group (I said I've been off it 10+ years!) except Record carbon shifters (and Marchisio cassette to run Campy on Shimano fit wheels)
Mavic Cosmic Elite wheels
Now why the Marchisio cassette if it's just a matter of the barrel adjuster ?
Maybe, just maybe, you might have considered that as I'd gone to the trouble of buying Campag shifters and mechs, I might have used the Marchisio cassette system to give me perfect Campag spacing in the cassette? Much better than ditching my perfectly good Mavics and buying another set of wheels to achieve the same result...
And the other main reason, and one I still think is a good idea, is with the Marchisio, I bought 11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20/21/22/23/24/25/26 tooth sprockets, so I always have the perfect ratio for whatever I'm riding - 11-up for flat courses and TT's or a wider spead for hilly courses. Of course, now I'm very unfit and a bit (big bit) over my race weight, the 26 gets a lot more use than it used to, but at least I didn't have to rush out and buy a new cassette for my return to riding 0 -
cooper.michael1 wrote:g00se wrote:My understanding is that 11-speed campag levers will work with a 9-speed shimano setup (similar as using the 10 speed levers with 8 speed shimano). It's referred to as Shimergo.
If the post 2011 10-speed levers won't work with 8-speed shimano, it's because they've moved over to the same cable pull as 11-speed - in which case, they should work with 9-speed shimano (though that's just an assumption).
Yes indeed, if you look at the figures the 11sp Ergo's with 9sp Shimano should work, however I've not come across many people who say they have tried it. I nearly tired it, but the downside is there is no bail out option, with the 10speed options you can always buy a shiftmate, of a conversion cassette for £30, if you are not happy with the performance of a bodge.
There is also little published about what changed about the cable pull pre and post 2011. All I know is i've used both 2009 and 2012 Veloce with a 10speed Shimano cassette and if you set them up carefully they both work very well (as I said the 2012 Veloce with a Shimano cassette seems to shift better than my 2009 full Campagnolo groupset).
I emailed campag regarding mixing pre and post 2011 10-speed kit and they said it officially wont work as the 2011+ 10-speed levers have the same pull as 11-speed kit (where the pre-2011 10-speed systems had a different amount of pull).
However, I've since head of folks mixing the two with success.0 -
No, what I was considering was several posts from you saying it was <quote>'easy' to make Campag shifters work with Shimano just by using the barrel adjuster because somehow that altered the pull of the cable...53twelve wrote:Maybe, just maybe, you might have considered that as I'd gone to the trouble of buying Campag shifters and mechs, I might have used the Marchisio cassette system to give me perfect Campag spacing in the cassette? Much better than ditching my perfectly good Mavics and buying another set of wheels to achieve the same result...
...and then turning-out to actually be using a conversion cassette on your own bike !
Never mind.
I think we have established that whilst some combinations of shifters and mechs and cassettes work well, some work well enough, others don't work at all.
And that the barrel adjuster doesn't change the pull-ratio of the shifter/cable.0 -
andy_wrx wrote:...and then turning-out to actually be using a conversion cassette on your own bike !
The Marchisio conversion cassette was the final purchase in a line of crossover/stable shifting purchases - the Shimano cassette had been working fine before then; it just seemed right to make the final leap to proper Campy spacing having bought the rest of the groupset, without buying new wheels. And I did find it quite easy to make the mixed gear work before that - ok, I said it altered the pull when I should have said it altered the indexing, but it was about 12 years ago I last did this (when did the first Record Carbon Ergo's come out?) and I have a job remembering last week sometimes
Anyway, as you rightly say, it's been established it can be done in certain cases - probably not as easily as when I was doing it as 10/11 speed is bound to be more difficult to exactly match than 7/8/9. I guess I was just lucky to have been working in an environment when I could tinker with my bike during quiet times at work...0 -
A most excellent climb-down ^^^^ 0
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Wirral_Paul wrote:A most excellent climb-down ^^^^
I'm used to climbing down these days - especially when the 26 sprocket isn't enough 0 -
Just a thought but have you considered sram shifters? Mine have pretty good reach adjustment and I think they have the same indexing as shimano, but I'm no expert on this so perhaps someone else can comment on that. Oh and my shifters are sram red not sure if the other shifters have the reach adjust...0
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gloomyandy wrote:Just a thought but have you considered sram shifters? Mine have pretty good reach adjustment and I think they have the same indexing as shimano, but I'm no expert on this so perhaps someone else can comment on that. Oh and my shifters are sram red not sure if the other shifters have the reach adjust...
Sram and Shimano cassettes are the same but Sram levers do not have the same cable pull as Shimano. Placing Sram levers on a shimano set-up would definitely NOT work with a Shimano rear mech in place.
The original poster would have to buy Sram levers, which last time I looked were about £200 plus a sram rear mech, plus a 10sp cassette and chain. I can't see him getting change out of £300 for that lot, and he could swap to a fully compatable Campagnolo set up for about £170.0
