Le terrier, oh my God.

Edward H

Rode yesterday. what the hell was that?
Set off and immediately turned left and went downhill, then uphill, then downhill, then uphill to the start of the first climb of Jubilee Tower. People walking after 4 miles, never seen that before. Roads are very quiet, passed one guy who questioned whether the roads were closed. I only remember seeing about 6 cars for the 104 mile route (or was I dreaming/hallucinating). Got to Jeffrey Hill at about 27miles, there is a sign at the bottom saying "steep hill". The problem is that you can't see it! I passed a house on the left and and the road started to steepen and steepen, oh shit I am in trouble, this is very very steep. I remember someone at the start saying saying "save yourself for Roeburndale".Roeburndale, still don't know were it is??
Passed the feed station and crawled over the a really long hill and roller coasted the other side, endless ups and downs to timing station at Wray. They told me to turn left into Roeburndale (finally found it, let's see). Going up the first climb, I passed a bungalow and someone had lifted the the road like a carpet to some ridiculous angle and expected me to ride up it. More climbing and I arrived at the gated section (this is reserved for people of immense character, strength and a will to live!!
Scout Camp, please no more, yet there is. I can only describe the final 12 miles like this: no one got near riding it anywhere near 1 hour, lots took 11/2 hours. I still cannot believe how difficult yesterday's ride was, but I feel privileged to be able to say that the conditions were similar to The Fred, but this is a different animal altogether. My new difficulty ratings are Le terrier 10+, Fred Whitton 9, Etape de Dales 8, Dragon 8,Etape Caledonia 6. I am one of a few that has ridden all of these in the last 3yrs.
This has been cathartic, I have never felt so fulfilled, the ultimate test. There were 5 guys who had run The Bob Graham round in the Lakes- 72 miles in under 24 hours? Think even they were shocked and battered.

I will sign of by saying that the Pendle Witches were killed in Lancaster after being dragged through Le terrier. countryside.

Crispyapp

I think a lot of these sportives now are loosing any credibility. There making them hilly and hard just for the sake of it. IMO a good sportive should have a mixture of every aspect of cycling and not just being able to ride up steep hills.

Well done for completing it though.

Tom Butcher

I bottled it in the end - not been feeling too good and the forecast of continuous rain throughout the day put me off travelling the 125 miles to ride it.

turnerjohn

Crispyapp wrote:

I think a lot of these sportives now are loosing any credibility. There making them hilly and hard just for the sake of it. IMO a good sportive should have a mixture of every aspect of cycling and not just being able to ride up steep hills.

Well done for completing it though.

+1 spot on !

Escher303

My hands were so cold and numb that I had a lot of trouble changing gear. I took my gloves off and couldn't get them back on again! So I had to do Bowland Knotts to the end without gloves, although it was actually warmer that way in the end. I guess I'll be speaking out of turn when I say I really enjoyed it though, but I do love climbing hills!

Tom Butcher

I think there's room for different types of event - to be fair to this one they didn't pretend it wasn't hilly and they didn't big it up with some silly name like the Bowland Bastard or something like that.

Escher303

Edward H wrote:

... I can only describe the final 12 miles like this: no one got near riding it anywhere near 1 hour, lots took 11/2 hours.

I did, I did it in 56 minutes. But I know Scout Camp Climb very well and train on it.

maddog 2

Tom Butcher wrote:

and they didn't big it up with some silly name like the Bowland Bastard or something like that.

yeah, roll on the badass!

I agree though, the last 20 miles of the Terrier are a tad nasty.

Agent57

Glad I'm not daft enough to sign up to Le Terrier, despite living a few miles from the start. I went to watch others riding instead (NW Youth Tour racing at Salt Ayre). Sounds like one tough ride.

Tom Butcher

There would have to be an event called Bowland Badass wouldn't there - oh well - no offence meant to them !

Brian B

Edward H wrote:

Rode yesterday. what the hell was that?
Set off and immediately turned left and went downhill, then uphill, then downhill, then uphill to the start of the first climb of Jubilee Tower. People walking after 4 miles, never seen that before. Roads are very quiet, passed one guy who questioned whether the roads were closed. I only remember seeing about 6 cars for the 104 mile route (or was I dreaming/hallucinating). Got to Jeffrey Hill at about 27miles, there is a sign at the bottom saying "steep hill". The problem is that you can't see it! I passed a house on the left and and the road started to steepen and steepen, oh shoot I am in trouble, this is very very steep. I remember someone at the start saying saying "save yourself for Roeburndale".Roeburndale, still don't know were it is??
Passed the feed station and crawled over the a really long hill and roller coasted the other side, endless ups and downs to timing station at Wray. They told me to turn left into Roeburndale (finally found it, let's see). Going up the first climb, I passed a bungalow and someone had lifted the the road like a carpet to some ridiculous angle and expected me to ride up it. More climbing and I arrived at the gated section (this is reserved for people of immense character, strength and a will to live!!
Scout Camp, please no more, yet there is. I can only describe the final 12 miles like this: no one got near riding it anywhere near 1 hour, lots took 11/2 hours. I still cannot believe how difficult yesterday's ride was, but I feel privileged to be able to say that the conditions were similar to The Fred, but this is a different animal altogether. My new difficulty ratings are Le terrier 10+, Fred Whitton 9, Etape de Dales 8, Dragon 8,Etape Caledonia 6. I am one of a few that has ridden all of these in the last 3yrs.
This has been cathartic, I have never felt so fulfilled, the ultimate test. There were 5 guys who had run The Bob Graham round in the Lakes- 72 miles in under 24 hours? Think even they were shocked and battered.

I will sign of by saying that the Pendle Witches were killed in Lancaster after being dragged through Le terrier. countryside.

I'm glad you now agree with the hype Edward. I tried to tell others it was as difficult or even more so than the Fred but nobody agreed unless they had ridden it.

Edward H

Hi Brian.
Yep, you were right.
I have calmed down a bit now. didn't think my post would bring some of the responses though. I don't think that LancasterCC have done anything wrong, that is their countryside, they don't send you riding for miles and miles to climb a hill, it is all out of their back door. The opposite direction would drown the riders in the sea, going south would send them into Preston area and going north into The Lakes. They take pride in their special countryside and everyone who rides there is surprised with how good it is.
There are lots of different rides for lots of different riders, though, the hills are where it's at for me. The best stages of Tour de France & Giro are in the hills.
I have looked at the Roeburndale times again - fastest for Wray to Finish (12miles) 1 hour by someone from GMC Tri. Slowest 1 hour 46 min.
Do they change the route every year? As it would be good to have another go.

Escher303

there was one quicker, see above!

Edward H

Sorry if I missed your time. The times that I found were off the 104 miler. Have ridden before?

Edward H

Sorry, should have said " have you ridden it before".

Escher303

No worries. But I did do the 104 miler not the mid route. I hadn't ridden it before but I live in Lancaster so know the hills pretty well, in fact it was only the second sportive I'd done - did the Keswick one a few weeks ago as my first. I did the mid route on my own about a month ago to recce most of it (in much better weather though!) so knew what was coming. The hardest bit I found was the loop around Rathmell, I was absolutely freezing, it was relatively flat so I just couldn't warm up, was praying for Bowland Knotts to arrive so I could warm up a bit! My hands were so numb with cold I had a lot of trouble changing gear and had to do it with my opposite hand! Though tough I really enjoyed it, but I am pretty good on the hills. I always thought the Fred must be much harder due to the steepness of the climbs but you think that this was tougher all round?

SportiveRater

turnerjohn wrote:

Crispyapp wrote:

I think a lot of these sportives now are loosing any credibility. There making them hilly and hard just for the sake of it. IMO a good sportive should have a mixture of every aspect of cycling and not just being able to ride up steep hills.

Well done for completing it though.

+1 spot on !

Couldn't disagree more - as long as organisers advertise the fact and show route and elevation profiles, as most have websites they more than often do, then every rider knows what they are signing up for. This weekend in the North West there have been 3 sportive's - Le Terrier (one for the hard core), The Great Manchester Cycle (closed road more of a charity event with celebs etc) and Let Them Eat Cake a totally flat more social cake eating ride.

At the end of the day there is a place for any and all of them, as long as people want to sign up and ride them.

Agent57

I'm with SportiveRater. There's plenty of room for stupidly tough rides to challenge the best riders and masochists, alongside rides that cater for a wider range of cyclists. I'd be concerned if every sportive ended up being the toughest bastard of a ride the organisers put on, but as long as there's a mixture, it's fine. I'll pick events that suit me (like the Great Manchester Cycle I rode yesterday).

maddog 2

I think we need to add the term Ultra Sportive to the cycling lexicon

Over 150 miles
Over 4000m climbing

Hence the badass.

ugo.santalucia

Crispyapp wrote:

I think a lot of these sportives now are loosing any credibility. There making them hilly and hard just for the sake of it. IMO a good sportive should have a mixture of every aspect of cycling and not just being able to ride up steep hills.

Well done for completing it though.

Spot on, the search for pointless steep roads is going a bit too far. Even if you like climbing, you won't enjoy going up a 20+% road... it is a pointless exercise, where just those with stupidly small gears shine.

Edward H

That's your opinion ugo. You probably live in a flat area and don't get used to riding hills. Le terrier has just had it's 5th running and is not just making a hilly route for the sake of it. I don't hear you moaning about The Fred? That route was devised to take in all the highest passes, which exactly what you say is wrong.
Give it a rest, just ride flat sportives if that is your choice. The reality is, the hills are the challenge, take the Marmotte, is that a daft route?

bikergirl17

ugo has a very valid point. even at my fittest, i don't have the gearing (use a standard) to get up 25% grades.

and even if i did, i don't think that steep is particularly rewarding, fun or a test of one's ability. rather 3,000+m of climbing, but staying within 15-20%.

Escher303

bikergirl17 wrote:

ugo has a very valid point. even at my fittest, i don't have the gearing (use a standard) to get up 25% grades.

and even if i did, i don't think that steep is particularly rewarding, fun or a test of one's ability. rather 3,000+m of climbing, but staying within 15-20%.

But some people do want that challenge. Can't there be sportives of all difficulties to cater for everyone including gradients 25% plus? There are many passes in the lakes with these sort of gradients, should these roads never be used?

Crispyapp

My point for writing that post is this. Yes there will always be those riders wanting to take on the extra challenge and that's fair play. But let's not forget these are sportives, sportives are aimed at the general public to undertake a challenge in 1 day similar to those riders in the tour could face..... In the hardest days in the mountains in either the tour or giro you wouldn't see hill after hill at 25%+ it just doesn't happen. They would use probably 1 of these climbs in 1 day not them all in the area on the same stage. Yes there will always be riders able to tackle these sportives successfully but these types of riders are few and far between and probably make up a very small % of riders actually riding the events.

maddog 2

It depends what constitutes a challenge to someone. Long Alpine climbs are just a different type of challenge to short punchy ones we get in the UK.

I agree that something like Hardknott from west to east (like on the Fred) is a brutal climb and not much fun but I'm happy to do it every now and again, and it is a real test of strength, will, and technical riding. The Terrier hasn't anything so nasty as that, so I'm not quite sure what your point is. Littledale and Roeburndale are steep but they're satisfying to complete, so I'd say bring them on.

As for blaming your gearing... :roll:

ugo.santalucia

Escher303 wrote:

bikergirl17 wrote:

ugo has a very valid point. even at my fittest, i don't have the gearing (use a standard) to get up 25% grades.

and even if i did, i don't think that steep is particularly rewarding, fun or a test of one's ability. rather 3,000+m of climbing, but staying within 15-20%.

But some people do want that challenge. Can't there be sportives of all difficulties to cater for everyone including gradients 25% plus? There are many passes in the lakes with these sort of gradients, should these roads never be used?

They should have never been built... a 1 in 4 road is just bad engineering... coudln't be bothered/didn't have the skill or money to build a bank and fit a hairpin, hence we just tarmac our way up the hill... these roads are no good, they are difficult to maintain, dangerous in wet weather and impossible to use in wintry weather... you won't find anything like that in the alps

styxd

I cant really see the problem here. If you are too much of a wet lettuce to ride the steep hills then dont enter the event. Problem solved.

I think the attraction of riding the steep passes in the Lakes is what draws alot of people to the Fred Whitton Challenge

You know what you're letting yourself in for before you do these events, if you want to pootle along flat roads then pick a different one.

bikergirl17

i hope you are joking about the gearing comment.

try being a female, without the strongest upper body strength, on a LONG 25% grade on a standard. brad wiggins basically lost the vuelta last year because he was on the wrong gearing in the steepest mts; the other pros -- if they didn't change the rings at least swapped out cassettes.

admittedly, it is my pet peeve when 'generously built' guys are on 50/34 with a 11-29, crawl 2 mph up a climb, and then overtake me on the descent as they drop like a stone.

ultimately this all comes down to what you consider a challenge and we could debate it endlessly. and i would never sign up for the fred whitton as i know i would be walking half of it. the dartmoor classic route, on the other hand, was absolutely awesome.

styxd

i hope you are joking about the gearing comment.

His point probably is: use gears that suit the route.

ugo.santalucia

Edward H wrote:

That's your opinion ugo. You probably live in a flat area and don't get used to riding hills. Le terrier has just had it's 5th running and is not just making a hilly route for the sake of it. I don't hear you moaning about The Fred? That route was devised to take in all the highest passes, which exactly what you say is wrong.
Give it a rest, just ride flat sportives if that is your choice. The reality is, the hills are the challenge, take the Marmotte, is that a daft route?

I come from the Italian alps.
No, the Marmotte is a valid course, but there are no 1 in 3 gradients there... I am commmenting about the pointless search for the steepest road in Britain, which is what they seem to do.

pibrahim

Why is it pointless?

If a bunch of people enjoy tackling those hills, and it seems more than enough people did to justify running a sportive around them, it would seem like there's a clear point to it. Just as you might be of the opinion that those hills are pointless, someone else can turn around and say completely flat sportives are pointless if there's no challenge. They're both opinions, one way or the other, but as long as people are signing up to the events and enjoying what they do then there seems a pretty clear point to them IMO. Horses for courses.