'I have the power'!!!!!

BBH

Sorry, couldn't resist (for those in the know!!)

Serious question now. Am planning to take my training seriously and focus on racing ability. Until now I have really just ridden my bike, dabbled in HR training/intervals etc. But I now want to take it a little more seriously and get into racing with the aim of getting to 2nd or 1st cat (if I can!!). My plan is to get on the local chaingang to start with and once I can hang on long enough do a couple of 4th cats to see how it all goes. I am coming from a completely new start to proper structured training.

My question, should I just get on and race now and just get race experience, is it worth training with power from the onset?? Should I buy or hire?? Should I be investing in a coach or just crack on myself first?? I don't want to jump the gun on the power thing, was just looking for effective ways to train in limited time outside of work which give maximal results and have not found HR training that helpful because of the delays and variations in it.

Thanks for the help guys

danlikesbikes

Power has its uses and combined with a structured plan will generate results, however this is at a cost as the units can be expensive to buy/hire and coaching/training programmes also have their price.

Would suggest that you get on your local chain gang and see how you get on after a couple of rides, if you chat to some on the people you meet see who races and ask them what they do. As I'm sure you find out there are those and do and those that don't and they don't always reflect how fit they are and how well they race.

In the end the science is hard to disagree with & if the cost is not a problem and you are willing to put the time in then go down the power option.

Rule74Please

ride your bike. keep looking for others faster than you and ride with them.

keep your money for a week or two in spain in the mid winter so you can bang out 5 or 600 miles in the sun when everyone else is stuck on the turbo.

GiantMike

Rule74Please wrote:

ride your bike. keep looking for others faster than you and ride with them.

keep your money for a week or two in spain in the mid winter so you can bang out 5 or 600 miles in the sun when everyone else is stuck on the turbo.

Alternative viewpoint:

If you race with power you can identify what the actual demands of racing are. If I tried to draw a power plot from a criterium, or a road race, or a time trial or a cyclocross race before I got a power meter I'd have been way off. Now I have a much better understanding and I train to meet those power demands accordingly.

Imagine the scneario: you get to the end of a race and you feel knackered, you have been dropped at some point and you don't know why. A power meter MAY help you to identify the reason you got dropped. Combined with a HRM you have even more data.

I raced last night and I didn't win. However, I know why I didn't win and I have a strategy to train to improve my weaknesses or race with them in mind. I can also use it to measure my improvements throughout the year.

If you want to race against me, please go to Spain once a year and ride 5-600 miles with your pals. Don't invest in going faster, just have some fun in the sun.

Rule74Please

I think I mentioned riding with those faster than you.

That is what makes you better.

Data s just numbers unless you know what to do with them. Ride your bike as hard as you can as often as you can and you will get faster. Race as often as you can and you will get better at racing. Some of older fellas managed to do it without Power meters and races are no faster now than they were 15 years ago. We must have been doing something right. Funny how many races are filled with over 40's who would have no idea about threshold power any of that info yet they kick the backsides of the guys with the data.

HRM and power meters make you give up much earlier as you think you know your maximums

ric/rstsport

Rule74Please wrote:

HRM and power meters make you give up much earlier as you think you know your maximums

no they don't. people set self-imposed maximums that can be to do with anything (e.g. i can't ride at more than 50km/hr for an hour, i can't ride hard in 30oC because i'll get sun stroke, i can't ride at more than 175 b/min, i can't ride at more than 300 W). these are just limits that (some) people ascribe to certain metrics because they have self-imposed limitations. the HRM or power meters don't actually stop you. (i've yet to see my power meter slap me around the face and say: "hey Ric, you're riding above XXX watts, you better stop now or ease up".

Of course, there are a whole load of other riders that do you use power (or HR or other metrics) to guide their performance and aren't limited by such data.

For the OP you have to try and decide what the benefits of coaching and/or power meters may be. it can be hard to suggest whether these are important for you at the outset (they may or may not be). It may also depend on your potential: perhaps you've already ridden with some racers and given them a thrashing? then perhaps you may want to maximise your time and get moving up the levels as fast as possible?

Interestingly: people will tell you that "novices" don't require coaching -- big gains can be made early on (this is true), and that the only people who need coaching are those who be e.g. pros or world class. On the other hand you'll also see a load of responses from people saying that coaching is only useful for beginners and that top level athletes already know what they're doing and don't require coaching. this could suggest that cycling is the only sport in the world that doesn't need coaching (unlikely) or that anyone can benefit from coaching (quite possibly).

If you decide to go down the coaching route (my company offers coaching), then you should interview/chat with your prospective coach. make sure you gel together. this is important. coaching is about how you communicate.

Ric

Tom Butcher

If money is no object by all means go out and get a power meter plus coaching straight away. If you are of more modest means then I'd get into racing first and see how you like it. For most people reaching first or even second cat takes a lot of commitment - you may find you prefer just to race for fun and train without numbers. If after a season or so you feel you want to take it further and commit more to it that's the time to get the wallet out.

GiantMike

Rule74Please wrote:

HRM and power meters make you give up much earlier as you think you know your maximums

How long did you train/race with power?

Rule74Please

Never

a huge fan of the V meter tho'

GiantMike

You really should give them a try, they're a great training tool. If you think you'll struggle to understand it there are lots of people here who could help you. They even work in Spain.

To the OP: Where in the country are you? If you're near Lytham and want to go for a ride I have a spare powertap you could use and I'll talk you through the analysis after if you like.

amaferanga

Rule74Please wrote:

HRM and power meters make you give up much earlier as you think you know your maximums

You don't get it do you. For training, power meters help you quantify your ability and training effect, improvements, etc. In bunch racing no-one I know actually uses power to guide their effort - you ride as hard as you need to. But having the power data after the race is EXTREMELY useful for making sense of your race performance. Of course you don't need a power meter and owning one won't turn a donkey into a thoroughbred, but to dismiss them completely cos there are some old codgers doing well without one is just stupid.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Rule74Please wrote:

Ride your bike as hard as you can as often as you can and you will get faster. Race as often as you can and you will get better at racing. Some of older fellas managed to do it without Power meters and races are no faster now than they were 15 years ago. We must have been doing something right. Funny how many races are filled with over 40's who would have no idea about threshold power any of that info yet they kick the backsides of the guys with the data.

HRM and power meters make you give up much earlier as you think you know your maximums

Spoken like a true luddite.

Not sure about where you are, but races here have got faster over the years, the quality of the overall competition is higher (fewer dominant individuals, many more are in the game now), the local TT course has for more riders setting faster times than 10 years ago, let alone 20-30 years. Even on the track we are seeing records broken each year. In recent times several of our riders have set world records, and several national records. Funny how a race can have a 47 yo with a bit of leg missing but who knows a lot about his data and still kicks other's butts (with or without data). Must be doing something right

Riding as hard as you can all the time may well be totally counter productive, trash you and screw with one's motivation and recovery to do the work that will help improve even more.

The only thing that makes you quit is you.

bahzob

OP: As the answers here so far show the only person who can answer this question is you. Since to get the most out of a power meter you need to be pretty structured and ever so slightly anal. Hopefully know whether you fit that definition. One question to ask yourself is
- Do I find graphs interesting?
- If the answer is "yes, I think they can very effectively convey information and I love the way they can reveal hidden trends" then don't delay a power meter is definitely for you.
- If the answer is "Whats a graph?" then best save your money.

(FWIW I am totally anal and have been using power measurement to very good effect since 2006)

That said you don't need to take the plunge and buy one straight away. Loads of folks have them now so you may be able to loan one for a while and see how you get on with it. Failing that rent one.

One thing not to get too fussed about is the cost. If you are of the right temperament to get the most out of a power meter then it is the second best buy in terms of improvement for cost (first being a good coach). Its streets ahead of spending money on the latest bit of carbon fibre bling or, as suggested above, going abroad for a couple of weeks.

Spaniard

If I had the cash I'd buy the power meter - it's a tool to provide you with more info, and knowledge is power...or erm ...power is knowledge...?

Eyorerox

I think the most important point to consider about coaching is will you do what your coach says you should? will you follow your coaches advice? Myself I am not able to do so therefore coaching is not for me. If I could I am sure a coach would be of great benefit. The same goes with a power meter.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Eyorerox wrote:

I think the most important point to consider about coaching is will you do what your coach says you should? will you follow your coaches advice? Myself I am not able to do so therefore coaching is not for me. If I could I am sure a coach would be of great benefit.

Why not?

Eyorerox wrote:

The same goes with a power meter.

Not sure about you, but so far not one power meter I've ever owned has told me what to do. It does however tell me what I am doing or have done.

Nevertheless, intelligent application of the tool and the data it provides does provide guidance as to what one should do.

BBH

Guys,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

Thanks so much for the replies though, you’ve given me an awful lot to think about

I really am desperate to give racing a good crack. From what I have read, heard and seen even 4th cat racing is hard going and I want to be prepared to be competitive and move up the cats as best as I possibly can.

To date, any training I have done has been unstructured and really just riding my bike for the fun of it (apart from sufferfest turbo sessions). I know powermeters are a lot of money and I will have to find ways to scrimp and save for this, but I feel it maybe a better investment in terms of return than the new electronic g/set or flash carbon bling??, maybe I’m mistaken?? :? :?

I am more than happy with graphs, data and self-analysing post event so I am happy for the ouputs from a powermeter. I also have a solid grounding in applied human physiology which I plan to put to good use, but, in all honesty I just want a way to monitor my progress and identify my weaknesses during a training programme so that I can improve. If I am paying for a coach I will also listen and do as they say, primarily because they will know more about how I can improve!!

So, I think my plan is to get my nutrition sorted, shed some weight, enjoy my riding for the summer. Then to get a coach and hire a power meter and train like anything over winter in order to be racing next season!!

Thanks again for the responses and Ill let you know how it goes

mattshrops

http://youtu.be/-dJolYw8tnk

BBH

Exactly

okgo

If you're up to progressing quick then it won't be long before you're up to scratch with the chain gang and then out of the 4ths. However the issue I've had has been racing enough. I have a job, a partner etc etc and I just can't get all over the country during the week and then on Sunday. Half the battle is being quite flexible and being able to get to plenty of races.

Wouldn't worry about power at the minute, if you're decent you'll do fine without. I got to 2nd without, and a chap I know is almost 1st cat without. Depends on your natural ability I suppose!

Good luck. I like you will be taking it a bit more seriously next year and now I know what races I want to do etc.

bahzob

One other benefit of getting a power meter is that you will be able to compare your performance with those of others and get feedback on an objective basis that will help you ride better. The quality of this exchange will be way higher than if you just post some subjective impressions of what happened.

I'd be willing to bet that if you do this you will find ways to get better results without any training, simply by riding smarter and/or be able to much better spend restricted training time focusing on the aspect of your performance most needed to improve.

Just as a couple of examples, here is a summary I posted a while back when I moved from 4th to 3rd cat. It gives some indication of the sort of engine needed for this, but also as I noted then demonstrates that results don't depend so much on what power you can produce but rather how you use this most effectively. Also shows what a mug I was, in the majority of races my peak power was sometime other than during the end sprint and that I rode harder in the first half of the race more often than not...

http://mr-miff-on-tour.blogspot.co.uk/2009/02/3rd-cat-stats-summary.html


Elsewhere here I observed how my abilities stacked up against others
http://mr-miff-on-tour.blogspot.co.uk/2009/02/short-and-sharp.html
and some attempts to improve peak power. These proved futile so I ended up accepting I had a diesel engine not a turbo petrol and chose events appropriate to my capabilities.

GiantMike

Over the winter I did very similar workouts leading into the race season. They're horrible aren't they?

On my local hill I use the PT to measure my performance. In the last year I've reduced my time from 8:40 at 320W to 7:12 at 400W. At the end of each climb I can barely focus and have to sit down for 5 minutes, so it's a proper workout and test rolled into 1.

okgo

That's pretty strong Mike! How heavy are you?

GiantMike

okgo wrote:

That's pretty strong Mike! How heavy are you?

75kgs, but trying to slim down to 72. I felt very very strong when I last did the climb; much stronger than I usually feel.

I've managed to scrape up to 3rd cat this season but I haven't got any 3rd cat points yet. There's a lot of difference between hill power and racing power!