Do I go for a coil shock?

rockmonkeysc

Reign is bombproof and with the longer fork to make it slacker it should be a great fun mini downhill bike.

lawman

I'm sure people said that about the glory



And I've said it for a while that giants and treks always seem so light because of the tin-foil they call their tubes, as backed up by the BR review of the reign:

There's one additional trade-off that we bumped up against in our time on the Reign: durability. The lightweight tubing just doesn't hold up against rock strikes and crashing as well as something thicker. During testing we kicked up a soup-bowl sized rock at roughly 20mph that inflicted a dent on the down tube that concerned us enough to email a photo to Giant. Their assessment? "You should be fine – even with a dent that size

YeehaaMcgee

Meh, that Giant looks fine, 'tis but a scratch!
It might be ideal for the guy in some other thread who was convinced his feet were too far ahead of him on his bikes though.

rockmonkeysc

Have you seen the video of how that Glory ended up like that? I very much doubt any bike would have survived that. Even the freight train he was jumping wouldn't have survived.
Made the biggest road gap I have cleared look tiny.

DodgeT

/\ /\ Nah, problem is it's got a big heavy coil shock which has made the frame buckle, would of been fine with a nice light air can

1mancity2

@ Lawman I have thought about a new frame and you may be right.

Had a google search and riders have fitted coils shocks and with great feedback.

Im not a full on DH rider (yet) but I do like to take jumps high and long, to me a nice jump is clearing a 20ft-30ft double and getting 10ft in the air while wazzing of anything in sight.

I would love a new frame but I don't want a full on DH bike (although im building mine as one)

1mancity2

Found this on ebay,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-FOX-DHX- ... 41662d4e33

Right size, what do you guys think?

rockmonkeysc

Great shock at a good price as long as you don't forget about the tax when it comes in to the UK.
Could be worth fitting an offset bush at the same time to slacken the head angle & drop the BB.

bennett_346

1mancity2 wrote:

Found this on ebay,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-FOX-DHX- ... 41662d4e33

Right size, what do you guys think?

Is the coil right for your weight and your bikes suspension platform? Add £50 if not. Is the damper the right tune? If not it will be pointless to upgrade to as it will feel wrong and need tuned by a suspension company. Add £100.

Even with those additions, it's still cheaper than a new one though.

YeehaaMcgee

bennett_346 wrote:

Is the damper the right tune? If not it will be pointless to upgrade to as it will feel wrong and need tuned by a suspension company.

Actually, those are pretty adjustable as is, so can be set up to suit most people's needs, without needing revalving.

1mancity2

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

Is the damper the right tune? If not it will be pointless to upgrade to as it will feel wrong and need tuned by a suspension company.

Actually, those are pretty adjustable as is, so can be set up to suit most people's needs, without needing revalving.

Yeah I thought that, maybe the spring will need changing but still a good deal, the seller has the Van shock as well.

bennett_346

Ah that's good. I've had fox air shocks before that weren't damper tuned to the bike and they didn't feel right till they were revalved but i guess that's another reason to go coil

rockmonkeysc

A Cane Creek spring will fit & is half the price of a Fox spring. I got mine for £22 from TF Tuned.

YeehaaMcgee

bennett_346 wrote:

Ah that's good. I've had fox air shocks before that weren't damper tuned to the bike and they didn't feel right till they were revalved but i guess that's another reason to go coil

As far as I know, there isn't a fox air shock which infinitely adjustable compression damping, whereas it's quite common on coil shocks. Don't know why that is though.

bennett_346

I wonder why.

delcol

Ally hope i not to late with this,, as you know i kinda in the same boat.. looking at getting the new frame but could not decide on coil or air..
in the end i opted for the coil one.. as my main use will be whistler parkbike and simlar stuff..

our kid has a ccdb on his knolly and they are really good so much adjustability.. they dear but they are good..
i had a fox dhx4.0 on my heckler it was push tuned it was ok and did it's job..
i have a elka stage 5 on the butcher i really like this shock once set it up it pretty dam impressive i got mine mega cheap,, not sure how much they are these days...

these are meant to be really good they score some really good reviews,, and a few people our kid knows are sponsered by them and rate them.. pluss they well with in your budget..
i may put one on the soda if the rocco is typical marzocchi and spills it's guts..

YeehaaMcgee

The Roco is actually meant to be a solid performer, and pretty damned robust. Reminiscent of the legendary Marzocchi of old.

delcol

hope so as i already in way over my head buying this bike.. beg borrow and steal well no actual stealing but you get the picture.. then to cap it off i get the frame and order all the parts to build it, then this morning i get a leter telling me my measly £70 jsa is stopping as i have been on it 182 days.. thats the thanks you get off our goverment for working your entire life then getting made redundant... so fuck knows how i gonna pay the visa bill when it arrives..

maybe i should of turned this free holiday to whistler down,, but how can you say no to a feebie trip to whistler...

1mancity2

Get gone, worry about the bill later, still can't decide on what to do yet......

mrmonkfinger

bennett_346 wrote:

Ah that's good. I've had fox air shocks before that weren't damper tuned to the bike and they didn't feel right till they were revalved but i guess that's another reason to go coil

why would that be any different to the damper on a coil unit?

bennett_346

mrmonkfinger wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

Ah that's good. I've had fox air shocks before that weren't damper tuned to the bike and they didn't feel right till they were revalved but i guess that's another reason to go coil

why would that be any different to the damper on a coil unit?

You tell me, i'm not a mechanic.

YeehaaMcgee

bennett_346 wrote:

mrmonkfinger wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

Ah that's good. I've had fox air shocks before that weren't damper tuned to the bike and they didn't feel right till they were revalved but i guess that's another reason to go coil

why would that be any different to the damper on a coil unit?

You tell me, i'm not a mechanic.

You're also not making sense.

1mancity2

@ Delcol, you have seen me ride Colin and in your opinion do you think the Fox dhx would suit?

rockmonkeysc

Wouldn't an air shock dampers be different to allow for things like floodgate & propedal which aren't used on a coil shock? Also different spring characteristics between air & coil would probably need dampers to suit.

bennett_346

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

mrmonkfinger wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

Ah that's good. I've had fox air shocks before that weren't damper tuned to the bike and they didn't feel right till they were revalved but i guess that's another reason to go coil

why would that be any different to the damper on a coil unit?

You tell me, i'm not a mechanic.

You're also not making sense.

I've bought shocks and fitted them to bikes and they've needed revalving of the damper. Someone mentioned coils don't need that done because they can be adjusted a lot more by the user, so i'm taking their word for it (can't remember who it was).

Something to do with the compression and rebound tune being in the right range was why it needed changed.

mrmonkfinger

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Wouldn't an air shock dampers be different to allow for things like floodgate & propedal which aren't used on a coil shock?

Floodgate/propedal type gizmos are perfectly possible to implement on a coil unit - I guess market forces dictate why they aren't... "everyone buying coil shocks rides DH and doesn't give a monkeys about propedal"

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Also different spring characteristics between air & coil would probably need dampers to suit.

Oddly enough, no. The spring has very little effect - all it does is suspend the weight of you and the bike. Think about this - you wouldn't change the damper when you change the spring on a coil unit...

AFAIK, the dampers shim stacks are tuned to three things, the leverage ratio of suspension, the weight of you+bike (rather than the spring used to support the bike's weight), and the intended use. A shock for DH is most likely going to have fairly compliant shock without a lot of compression damping - until you start moving the shock real fast (ie big hits) then you need more damping - versus an all rounder XC/AM (ie RP2) having more damping at the low speed to make a more efficient stiffer platform for shorter travel XC/AM type riding. Different strokes and all that.

bennett_346

mrmonkfinger wrote:

AFAIK, the dampers shim stacks are tuned to three things, the leverage ratio of suspension, the weight of you+bike (rather than the spring used to support the bike's weight), and the intended use. A shock for DH is most likely going to have fairly compliant shock without a lot of compression damping - until you start moving the shock real fast (ie big hits) then you need more damping - versus an all rounder XC/AM (ie RP2) having more damping at the low speed to make a more efficient stiffer platform for shorter travel XC/AM type riding. Different strokes and all that.

So is that why the shock needed a different damping tune?

YeehaaMcgee

mrmonkfinger wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Wouldn't an air shock dampers be different to allow for things like floodgate & propedal which aren't used on a coil shock?

Floodgate/propedal type gizmos are perfectly possible to implement on a coil unit - I guess market forces dictate why they aren't... "everyone buying coil shocks rides DH and doesn't give a monkeys about propedal"

Actually, Fox DHX shocks certainly do have propedal. They have every adjustment that the air shocks do, and more. The only thing that's uncommon on DH/Freeride shocks is lockout.

mrmonkfinger wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Also different spring characteristics between air & coil would probably need dampers to suit.

Oddly enough, no. The spring has very little effect - all it does is suspend the weight of you and the bike. Think about this - you wouldn't change the damper when you change the spring on a coil unit...

If the spring has to be stronger for whatever reason, then the damping needs to be increased to match.

delcol

ally sorry for the lateish reply had to go get the little from school..

i used my heckler with it's dhx 4.0 shock in the bike park.. imo it was a lot better with the coil shock than it was with the rp23...
i think you would benefit from a coil shock after seeing you jumping and hucking.... now as to which one i dont know.. i guess it's all comes down to what you can afford and are willing to pay.. the ccbd is at the top and probably the best shock out there..
the dhx (push tuned) 4.0 i had was good and i did like it,, but the elka stage 5 is slightly better, i really do like the stage 5 on my butcher..

if i were you i would research DSP Racing Dueler rear shocks and speak to loco tuning abouth them. they the uk distributer
loco

dsp

these are ment to be good shocks and are very resonable in price..

mrmonkfinger

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

If the spring has to be stronger for whatever reason, then the damping needs to be increased to match.

my mistake