XC Racers

Northwind

Lots of people in endurance races aren't "XC racers", any more than you are! You get all sorts of riders, from proper bike-geniuses to roadies-with-knobblies. But most serious XC racers will turn your average weekend warrior inside out (on a lightweight hardtail with a seatpost as long as my obvious and tyres as wide as a baw hair)

pilch

Yep, was riding at Hopton on Sun, round 3 national xc, the standard is hugely different to local and even regional races. I was beasted on the hills, I was a little quicker on the downs than a few guys that beat me on the ups, I was mid pack at the finish in the vets. I wouldn't be surprised if the top quarter of the vets alone would have destroyed most 'fast' riders on that course... up & down.

We watched the elites/masters on some of the downhill sections & they were insanely quick, as plenty of people have said the 'XC racers are rubbish downhill' is a bit of a stupid comment really...

EH_Rob

Aye it's like saying DH riders don't ride XC because they aren't fit enough, which clearly is absolute tripe.

njee20

Well Lewis King who came 2nd in vets was a Pro DH racer in the past! As was Ed Moseley in the Elites.

stubs

A mate who doesnt race XC but does race cyclocross once beat me to the top of a hill. At the start of the climb his chain broke he couldnt fix it so he picked bike up and ran to top cyclocross style with it on his shoulder. Bloody racing snake went past me with a 100 yards to spare. Just to rub it in at top of hill he jumped on bike and freewheeled to bottom still with a few yards to spare.

I hate people who race its just so uncool, its not who comes first honest

MountainMonster

Man I wish I would have seen this earlier, rockmonkey is a legend. Can't compare tmes between a 12 hour race and a 4 minute race? 4 minute race you give it all you have for 4 minutes, 12 hours is a bit different. legendary!

ilovedirt

I know some XC racers, and the good ones are RAPID downhill. There is a fair amount of XC riders though that are essentially road riders that thought they'd give mtb a crack and have absolutely no technique but are stupidly fit (might as well stick to the road bike). Like I say, the really good XC racers could smoke a lot of downhillers!

Thewaylander

It's a hole different skill set at the end of the day.

And yes some are rapid DH, but compared to top DHers most are not and vice verser as the training is rather fitness based in XC not so techincal. They are fit on the DH but in different focus 4 minute burst like a boxer almost. I think on most XC circuits due to the lay out the DH factor is minimal so its not really got those skill on display which is a shame as a more all round format would be interesting. But how you would lay it out in a spectator way I have no idea.

What i do know is most people I have met on normal basis not pro who race XC have not been rapid DH in terms of steep technical terrain as its not what they generally ride, but on trail center type downs there ability to pedal has made them fast. But that doesn't mean there not competent riders either just a totally different bias than me, almost a totally different sport to be honest.

njee20

Again it depends the level you look at. There's been a push to make national races more technical in recent years, and courses like Dalby achieve that. At World Cup level some of the courses now are pretty full on as well, it's certainly not 'riding around a flat field' as folk often think.

Forget who, but someone mused that XC races are won on the climbs, and lost on the descents, which sums it up nicely!

mrmonkfinger

Thewaylander wrote:

It's a hole different skill set at the end of the day

got it in one

Thewaylander

njee20 wrote:

Again it depends the level you look at. There's been a push to make national races more technical in recent years, and courses like Dalby achieve that. At World Cup level some of the courses now are pretty full on as well, it's certainly not 'riding around a flat field' as folk often think.

Forget who, but someone mused that XC races are won on the climbs, and lost on the descents, which sums it up nicely!

I maintain based on the type of equipment used the technicallity is fairly limited in comparison,(mostly think unadjusted seat post up your bum here) I mean its more trail center level(maybe some of it black which is easy compared to actual DH) from the races i've watched.

I'm not saying it's totally easy buts its hardly DH and don't fool yourself otherwise. The riders are fulyl competent I agree but they are so far different as I said there almost different sports.

supersonic

Any course can be easy if you plod round it. The difference is top xc riders eek every drop of performance out of their machines. As I said earlier, they would blow most of us away on the decents, even if we took longer travel bikes.

Thewaylander

supersonic wrote:

Any course can be easy if you plod round it. The difference is top xc riders eek every drop of performance out of their machines. As I said earlier, they would blow most of us away on the decents, even if we took longer travel bikes.

On the XC decents yes, that is my point. Where being able to pedal counts almost as much anything else. On a pure DH circuit comparing them to a DH boy no. Comparing Pro to average jo is a bit irrelevant though the amount i see on some of the XC races carrying there bikes down amuses me but sometimes its probably faster than getting caught up which is whats counts in the race and isn't really a reflection on there techincal skill.

It's such hugely different a type of riding as to be unrecognisable. I'd be interested to see an event which put the XC lads on a DH course i think they'd get down respectably but there be a decent gap between then and DH racer and the line choices would be far less techicnal i think you'd find. And when I mean DH course i meant an World cup track.

njee20

But that's a bit of a moot point, of course most will take 'safer' line choices, they're on bikes half the weight/travel, wearing none of the protection and riding for far longer. Bit of a daft comparison that.

There are plenty of examples of DH courses, in part, being included in XC courses, but you're unlikely to see too many drops of more than 4ft in an XC race.

Thewaylander

njee20 wrote:

But that's a bit of a moot point, of course most will take 'safer' line choices, they're on bikes half the weight/travel, wearing none of the protection and riding for far longer. Bit of a daft comparison that.

There are plenty of examples of DH courses, in part, being included in XC courses, but you're unlikely to see too many drops of more than 4ft in an XC race.

I was more considering the rider, give them any bike you like

And this was my point, there will be very accomplished riders, but there riding is focussed on what they do. It's why i'd like to see a different format even at some point that displays some fitness with a level aggressive riding involved too. Be good for the sport. but I'm just not sure how you'd organise an event like that.

supersonic

The amount of pedaling on some DH courses though at the minute, Pietermitzburg was a joke!

But yes, of course they will be more technical in places - the big drops, the jumps, rocks, hence the larger bikes. A lot of XC pros are respectable DHers though, and vice versa. Many XC racers have learned good lines too, after all they are used to using much less travel and steeper bikes!

Horses for courses in the end. I would like to see more 'AM' type racing with moderate DH, large climbs and twisty singletrack. Given these are the bikes the manufacturers push most, be good to see them set up a race series to see if they are the best option

njee20

Which I guess is where Enduro racing is coming into the fold.

Thewaylander

Yarp you both got my point now

Much happyness, as i don't want to nock XC racers at all. The enduro type DH stuff is possibly interesting see where goes i still think MTBing is kinda figuring out what it is. DH has settled down, and XC too but people are dieing for that middle ground event that hasn't really settled down yet.

supersonic

It will be good to see, as I think the bike choices will be very interesting. I still think some will use lightweight XC bikes, while others will opt for heavier, slacker machines. My gut feeling is the lightweight XC machines with a skilled rider would come out on top, as they will gain time on the ups and flats, and lose little on the downs.

njee20

I think it'll depend a lot on the course, and I think that's where Enduro is a difficult one to predict at the moment. Some seem to be essentially DH races, whilst others are pretty tame even by XC race standards.

I think a 5-6" travel lightweight bike is the best bet at the moment, unless they make the time restrictions tighter on the climbs (which I think they should frankly, from what I've heard there's enough time to push between sections often, which seems to defeat the purpose) I don't think the advantage gained from being on a light bike is worth it.

I want to try one, think it's a good format. In my mind if I was building a bike for that (and I'd like to!) I'd get a Mojo SL-R, some 150mm travel forks, Crest wheels with some nice wide 2.3" tyres and a Reverb post.

stubs

Easy peasy XC stuff I could do this on my Mums shopping bike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU1g3_Osp7k

If anyone on this forum can do this half a dozen times flat out with the seatpost halfway up your bib tights surrounded by a load of other hyper fit nut jobs fighting for the best line then its about time you rang British Cycling theres a place waiting for you at the Olympics. :roll: