XC Racers

rockmonkeysc

I did a xc race yesterday, not really my idea of fun but some mates talked me in to it.
One thing I noticed is how useless xc racers are on the down hill sections. They were really quick up the hill and went flying past me but on the way back down they were all on the brakes. It was beautiful flowing smooth single track but they were all so slow. Just made me think they if they are racing why not put the same effort in to decending that they put in to the climb.

baccodaddy

What race though?

rockmonkeysc

Erlstoke12. I would have thought that in a endurance maximum speed for minimum effort is worth a lot.

baccodaddy

So a wide cross section of people from beginners to elite.try the national xc series you would be shocked how fast they can go downhill!

Rushmore

I think that's bollox.. I'm guessing you were near the back? The leaders absolutely baffle me how they manage to go so fast downhill on an 80mm carbon hard tail..

Did they beat you? In that case does it matter if they were on the brakes anyway? As they were faster then you riding the brakes...

Sorry but if your intention is to troll xc racers then please go away...

Ps I race xc ( all be it not very fast on a full Susser ) but I have a huge respect for the sheer determination and fitness levels of the front runners.. And anyone else who takes part for that matter )

stubs

Rushmore wrote:

I think that's bollox.. I'm guessing you were near the back? The leaders absolutely baffle me how they manage to go so fast downhill on an 80mm carbon hard tail..

Did they beat you? In that case does it matter if they were on the brakes anyway? As they were faster then you riding the brakes...

Sorry but if your intention is to troll xc racers then please go away...

Ps I race xc ( all be it not very fast on a full Susser ) but I have a huge respect for the sheer determination and fitness levels of the front runners.. And anyone else who takes part for that matter )

+ lots

I went to the Dalby international XC races last year and those guys and gals on short travel HTs were absolutely blitzing rocky sections I would have done on a 150mm bike but wouldnt have liked to have done 5 times in a race flat out.

rockmonkeysc

It was a 12 hour enduring so a few laps in the fast riders were lapping everyone. They beat me by a long way but they were slow on the descents. Over a lap they were 5 mins faster than me but what I am suggesting is that a xc racer who can ride single track descents fast will be faster than a rider who is as fast up the hill but slow on the descents.
I prefer downhill racing but was on a spare parts special hardtail yesterday but was still riding down the hills faster than any xc racers that I saw even though I was playing around boosting jumps off roots and drifting through the bends.
I was amazed at their speed up the hills though even after 12 hours riding. My team of three was several laps down on the fastest solo rider. What I am saying is that xc racers seem to be a lot slower down hill than they could be. Downhill racers train a lot riding xc, maybe xc racers could gain something by doing a bit of downhill out of the race season.

stubs

You can lose a few seconds on a downhill section but you can lose minutes on a climb. I guess they concentrate on the bits that win and lose races. A 12 hour race is all about finishing no use flying downhill and risk coming off when it wont win you anything.

supersonic

They beat me by a long way but they were slow on the descents.

There you go ;-). They might have been thinking "why have a bike/rider that can fly down a hill if that is all he can do?"

baccodaddy

Not being funny but two mates I race with we're at the pointy end of the field and I very much doubt you could get anywhere near them downhill whatever bike your on.if you could then you,d get an elite downhill licence which I doubt you have???

stubs

Plus if the top flight XC racer was on a 180mm full suss and you were on an 80mm carbon HT he/she would still whip your arse uphill

cat_with_no_tail

supersonic wrote:

They beat me by a long way but they were slow on the descents.

There you go ;-). They might have been thinking "why have a bike/rider that can fly down a hill if that is all he can do?"

+ sack-o-spuds

What bike were you on? You can't really compare your speed downhill on a 456SS or Reign to that of someone on an 80mm XC race bike. (can.... open! worms.... everywhere!). You've got to look at their average speed over the entire course. Which from the sounds of it, was siginficantly faster than yours

[edit: Damn you Stubs!]

chez_m356

"slower down hill than they could be", did it ever cross your mind that they were doing this purposely, a few extra seconds rest/recovery time, ready for the next blast of power

rockmonkeysc

They were on the brakes. I was only pumping and rolling but still passing plenty of them.

supersonic

Pity it wasn't a DH race, you coulda won!

cooldad

supersonic wrote:

Pity you are useless, you coulda won!

FTFY

DodgeT

stubs wrote:

A 12 hour race is all about finishing no use flying downhill and risk coming off when it wont win you anything.

Exactly. Plus as someone else said, gives you a chance for a "free" breather.
Of course, there will be some people who just don't like going too fast anyway, and are just endurance freaks, I ride with a couple of people like this. You sail past them on the downhills, but 2 minutes later there back with you, there like energiser bunnies

rockmonkeysc

I wouldn't have expected them to be up to downhill racing standards but surely when you are racing every advantage counts. You don't see downhill racers backing off for a rest when the trail is flat & featureless, they are on the pedals sprinting as fast as they can.
Seemed like most of the riders would have been just as happy riding on the road, all of them seemed to avoid technical features and a lot were on the brakes riding down in to steep bomb holes where it's actually safer to stay off the brakes, even jumping & pumping in to them to get the speed to use the next bomb hole as a hip was safer (and a lot more fun) than rolling in on the brakes. Sometimes speed is your friend.

ddraver

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I wouldn't have expected them to be up to downhill racing standards but surely when you are racing every advantage counts. You don't see downhill racers backing off for a rest when the trail is flat & featureless, they are on the pedals sprinting as fast as they can.
Seemed like most of the riders would have been just as happy riding on the road, all of them seemed to avoid technical features and a lot were on the brakes riding down in to steep bomb holes where it's actually safer to stay off the brakes, even jumping & pumping in to them to get the speed to use the next bomb hole as a hip was safer (and a lot more fun) than rolling in on the brakes. Sometimes speed is your friend.

Because down hill races last 4 mins and this was a 4 hour race?

Stop digging buddy...

rockmonkeysc

12 hour race but you can't compare race times. A downhill race is 4 mins of intense flat out sprinting. Getting every possible crank, pumping every bump and constantly moving around on the bike to find every bit of grip. No one is ever going to be able to do that in an xc race, they would ne exhausted st the bottom of the hill.

cooldad

Is it just me?

supersonic

RockmonkeySC wrote:

12 hour race but you can't compare race times. A downhill race is 4 mins of intense flat out sprinting. Getting every possible crank, pumping every bump and constantly moving around on the bike to find every bit of grip. No one is ever going to be able to do that in an xc race, they would ne exhausted st the bottom of the hill.

Probably why they don't then. I reckon they must get on the brakes and relax a bit, ready for that next climb ;-).

ddraver

RockmonkeySC wrote:

12 hour race but you can't compare race times. A downhill race is 4 mins of intense flat out sprinting. Getting every possible crank, pumping every bump and constantly moving around on the bike to find every bit of grip. No one is ever going to be able to do that in an xc race, they would ne exhausted st the bottom of the hill.

Eh

That's the answer to your question....

Anonymous

Case solved.

Clank

cooldad wrote:

Is it just me?

Not in this case. No.

Stu Coops

Rushmore wrote:

I think that's bollox.. I'm guessing you were near the back? The leaders absolutely baffle me how they manage to go so fast downhill on an 80mm carbon hard tail..

Did they beat you? In that case does it matter if they were on the brakes anyway? As they were faster then you riding the brakes...

Sorry but if your intention is to troll xc racers then please go away...

Ps I race xc ( all be it not very fast on a full Susser ) but I have a huge respect for the sheer determination and fitness levels of the front runners.. And anyone else who takes part for that matter )

Totally agree this OP is talking shite three of my mates race XC and are crazily fast

cooldad

Sheldon Brown's take on DH racing
I consider this fad to be bad for cycling, and contrary to the spirit of cycling. It is effectively just a variant form of motorcycle racing, since most of the power is provided by the machinery that carries the rider and bike to the top of the run. Bicycling should be a human-powered activity, or it is not bicycling to me.

bennett_346

Coming from a man named sheldon and with a beard that rediculous i'd take anything he said with a bag of salt.

cooldad

+1 bag of salty potato chips

Anonymous

The bearded one had some useful advice but he talked balls at times.

"Bicycling should be a human-powered activity, or it is not bicycling to me"

Nah, it's dealing with forces. Opposing the conservation of momentum and friction on the flat and handling gravity on slopes. Power to climb against gravity, and control to descend when gravity pulls you down.

That and just having a laugh and talking bollox.

njee20

Erlestoke 12 (or any other 12 hour) race is not even representative of XC racing, a proper XC race has a far higher standard. I had a quick look down the results list, I spotted two Experts in there.

As others have said, go to a National XC race and have a go in the Elite (or even Expert) category, most folk (and I exclude myself from that) are no slouches down hill!