Can't pedal hard enough

Herbsman

I've trained and trained and trained, for years I have sprinted hard, from an already high speed and from a standing start, on the flat, up hills etc. but for some reason I just can't pedal hard enough to get a gap in front of a peloton. I try and put in big accelerations during crits but when I press the pedals all that happens is that I just keep going at the same speed, while other people seem to be able to fly past me from behind. I just can't catch up with them and have to wait for other riders to give chase. How can I gain this sort of power?

P_Tucker

If you can't do it by now with all that training, you probably can't do it. Suggest doing races other than crits.

ric/rstsport

have you tried coaching (to rectify your training issues)?
do you have a power meter (so that we can tell what your strengths/weaknesses are?)

amaferanga

If you're talking about bridging gaps then I doubt it's your ability to sprint that's holding you back, more likely >1min power. Apart from all this sprinting, what specific training do you do?

Herbsman

amaferanga wrote:

If you're talking about bridging gaps then I doubt it's your ability to sprint that's holding you back, more likely >1min power. Apart from all this sprinting, what specific training do you do?

I do 4x10-20 min in a big gear 60-70rpm
6 x 4min,
5-10 x 1 min up a hill,

amaferanga

Might be worth doing some 1-3min intervals not-up-a-hill as it can feel very different pushing big Watts on a hill compared to on the flat.

Herbsman

Wait I aint finished yet!
5 x (5 x 40sec hard / 20 sec not so hard) with 5 mins recovery between each set

some other stuff

jibberjim

More likely technique - you're probably trying to get a gap from the front - get one from the back...

ric/rstsport

i've asked to see if the poster has power data, but my thought is that it's a skill based issue. or the OPs FTP is too low (and thus his/her AWC is completely depleted)
ric

jgsi

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

i've asked to see if the poster has power data, but my thought is that it's a skill based issue. or the OPs FTP is too low (and thus his/her AWC is completely depleted)
ric

Is the curve downwards in respect of critical power on the graph

fairly standard for someone trained?
The question being can one do a CP1 test and predict for CP5 CP10?
or is this question nonsense?

ric/rstsport

First off, please get rid of the expression "CP1", "CP5" etc. There is only one critical power, which relates to efforts of about 1hour

You can't do a one-minute all-out test and expect to predict other durations off, of that. The CP paradigm works by using a minimum of two, and frequently more points to to predict maximal power that can be sustained for ~1hr.

If you could then based on one-minute efforts Chris Hoy and his fellow kilo & team sprint type riders would be the best endurance riders in the world (which clearly they're not. sorry Chris).

Likewise, people who can generate the greatest powers over ~60-mins would look like an idiot over 1-minute

Ric

Herbsman

jibberjim wrote:

More likely technique - you're probably trying to get a gap from the front - get one from the back...

Nah, everyone spots you and shouts then. Usually try from about 5 places back

Herbsman

Just wondering, is it worth doing leg strength exercises in the gym? I was thinking of repeatedly jumping up and down with weights to improve my 'kick'

P_Tucker

Herbsman wrote:

Just wondering, is it worth doing leg strength exercises in the gym? I was thinking of repeatedly jumping up and down with weights to improve my 'kick'

Buckled_Rims

Herbsman wrote:

Just wondering, is it worth doing leg strength exercises in the gym? I was thinking of repeatedly jumping up and down with weights to improve my 'kick'

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I haven't trained much this year, so I started to investigate other training. I looked at at Lance Armstrong's weight training video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM

And this has actually given me a lot more strength. It has given me a bit more power in the legs. The basic result, is I'm far faster then last year in shorter distances (<5 miles) but don't have the endurance of my usual Sunday 65 miles.

In some respects I'm exited for next year as I hope to get more miles in AND do the specific weight training I've been doing.

amaferanga

Buckled_Rims wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

Just wondering, is it worth doing leg strength exercises in the gym? I was thinking of repeatedly jumping up and down with weights to improve my 'kick'

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I haven't trained much this year, so I started to investigate other training. I looked at at Lance Armstrong's weight training video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM

And this has actually given me a lot more strength. It has given me a bit more power in the legs. The basic result, is I'm far faster then last year in shorter distances (<5 miles) but don't have the endurance of my usual Sunday 65 miles.

In some respects I'm exited for next year as I hope to get more miles in AND do the specific weight training I've been doing.

Are you also following Lance's other programme? You know, the one that actually helped him win as opposed to the one that he would like you to think helped him win?

mamba80

My daughter jumped on my Turbo bike recently after i finish a sufferfest vid, during the warm up it gets you to do a hard 30 sec high gear "jump" effort - she started this with an almighty bunnyhop - as she didnt know what "jump" meant :oops:
So jumping up and down with 75kg on your back would equally do you as much good :idea: :?:

smidsy

What are you doing with your upper body when you are trying to pedal harder?

Pushing with your feet is only part of the process.

thiscocks

Yeah, push with your hands too

Herbsman

smidsy wrote:

What are you doing with your upper body when you are trying to pedal harder?

Pushing with your feet is only part of the process.

I grip the hoods tightly but keep my arms relaxed, forearms flat, bend down into an aero position, keeping relaxed but bracing myself firmly if you know what I mean. Why? Should I be doing something with my pectorals? Flexing my abdominals perhaps?

Herbsman

thiscocks wrote:

Yeah, push with your hands too

Ah only just saw this. Yeah I push with my hands as well, that's why I've been doing bicep, tricep and forearm curls in the gym - to increase my upper limb power output by 30 Watts

smidsy

Pushing with your hands is the opposite of what I do.

I stand to sprint and then as I push down with my foot I pull down with my hands to generate more downward force through the pedals. Probably a load of tosh but it seems to work for me.

Also I find that if I keep the bike as still as possible (not swaying side to side) I seem to generate better speed. I kid myslef that all the effort is going into going forwards that way and not wasted in sideways movement.

Someone will be along shortly to completely rubbish both these techniques but that's life.

GiantMike

smidsy wrote:

Pushing with your hands is the opposite of what I do.

I stand to sprint and then as I push down with my foot I pull down with my hands to generate more downward force through the pedals. Probably a load of tosh but it seems to work for me.

Also I find that if I keep the bike as still as possible (not swaying side to side) I seem to generate better speed. I kid myslef that all the effort is going into going forwards that way and not wasted in sideways movement.

Someone will be along shortly to completely rubbish both these techniques but that's life.

What rubbish!

Actually, at the start of an acceleration I pull on the bars. I also try to get my weight forward and this stops the bike moving side-to-side so much. If you watch a vid of Mark Cavendish sprinting, that's me. Without as much speed or power. Or money.

P_Tucker

Herbsman wrote:

thiscocks wrote:

Yeah, push with your hands too

Ah only just saw this. Yeah I push with my hands as well, that's why I've been doing bicep, tricep and forearm curls in the gym - to increase my upper limb power output by 30 Watts

Have you considered deliberately passing wind when making a big effort so as to propel yourself forwards? If you have trouble passing wind on demand, try imagining you are in the middle of a 3rd cat bunch sprint - although you may well find you expel more than you bargained for.

RowCycle

I've a thought from an anology with rowing.

In rowing, a lot of time, when people try to do a sprint at the end they try to pull harder, but a lot of the time the effort in doing this causes the stroke rate to reduce.

Maybe, if you are putting a massive effort regarding power, then your cadence may actually drop a little, or if not drop and increases, your pedalling technique reduces (e.g not so smooth).

So maybe focus on spinning the pedals quicker (and smooth) rather than focussing on optimum power, and let the power increase on its own?

Just a thought...

P_Tucker

RowCycle wrote:

I've a thought from an anology with rowing.

In rowing, a lot of time, when people try to do a sprint at the end they try to pull harder, but a lot of the time the effort in doing this causes the stroke rate to reduce.

Maybe, if you are putting a massive effort regarding power, then your cadence may actually drop a little, or if not drop and increases, your pedalling technique reduces (e.g not so smooth).

So maybe focus on spinning the pedals quicker (and smooth) rather than focussing on optimum power, and let the power increase on its own?

Just a thought...

Quite generous I'd have said