Etape - Medical Certificates
Comments
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I'm sure people don't mind paying but it's just how much some charge that seems to get under peoples skin, and the seemingly huge variation in price. No good comparing it to what kit people have either, yes I've got a Giant TCR full carbon with Record throughout but it took me 2 years to get it all together and on the road. Not all cyclists are minted.0
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Neither are all GPs. I have a 2009 CAAD 9 with tiagra and R500 wheels.
Dentists on the other hand...
(By the way the BMA has guidelines on what should be charged for these sort of things)0 -
maglianera wrote:I'm pretty sick of people having a go at GPs for what they earn. The salary can be good but so what. Its hard work. Who wouldn't want to be rewarded for their work? From a lot of the posts on here about what bikes people ride, there are a lot of people earning good salaries and more power to them.
They earn too much - a 2011 report says the most any GPs earn across all OECD countries - roughly twice what French GPs earn - that's why some people have a go at the fact they then try and milk people for bringing up medical records on a screen, having a quick scan through and signing a form to say they are healthy. This is what is happening in most instances and it's just pure greed.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
maglianera wrote:If a GP surgery is in a government owned health centre, then the GP pays the government rent. If they own it themselves they pay a mortgage. The GP gets a sum of money on a yearly basis out of which all staffing costs, equipment costs and consumables are paid. Anything left over is then split amongst the GPs. GPs are essentially running a small business.
So just to be clear: All the rent, staffing and equipment is paid by the taxpayer? One way or another.
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Tom Butcher wrote:maglianera wrote:I'm pretty sick of people having a go at GPs for what they earn. The salary can be good but so what. Its hard work. Who wouldn't want to be rewarded for their work? From a lot of the posts on here about what bikes people ride, there are a lot of people earning good salaries and more power to them.
They earn too much - a 2011 report says the most any GPs earn across all OECD countries - roughly twice what French GPs earn - that's why some people have a go at the fact they then try and milk people for bringing up medical records on a screen, having a quick scan through and signing a form to say they are healthy. This is what is happening in most instances and it's just pure greed.
Who wrote the OECD report? What was there political affiliation? Where they comparing like for like? If you think GP salaries are too large in the UK look at what they are in the US and they do not do any home visits.0 -
maglianera wrote:I'm pretty sick of people having a go at GPs for what they earn. The salary can be good but so what. Its hard work. Who wouldn't want to be rewarded for their work? From a lot of the posts on here about what bikes people ride, there are a lot of people earning good salaries and more power to them.
I'm not against what a GP earns, but I am against the blatent profiteering to sign medical forms.
As I said in my post, my doctor, who gets no NHS lump sum to cover any of his costs, rents a surgery, buys his equipment, pays his receptionists, the apprentice and himself (probably more than a UK doctor) and yet charged me just over 20 quid.
Whilst the cost of healthcare isn't covered by a 'NHS' the prices are regulated. When I get a bill there is a breakdown of the cost. Time is broken down into 5 minute periods and the first and last five minutes are a charged at a slightly higher rate to cover the admin, writing up of notes etc. All treatments, examinations and medicines are listed as line items so I can see exactly what I got for my money.
My 'medical' consisted me turning up to the doctor's surgery after work, asking if I could make an appointment for a medical, the doctor confirming exactly what I wanted and why, him saying "we might as well do it now" followed by a friendly chat whilst he took my resting pulse and blood pressure, scanning my medical records, asking me about La Marmotte, commenting on the fact that I'd obviously been training as I was wearing shorts and he could see my tan lines and then wishing me a safe trip to France, lots of look and telling me to enjoy it. That took 10 minutes, so my bill was just for the first and last 5 minute consultation costs.0 -
TheStone wrote:maglianera wrote:If a GP surgery is in a government owned health centre, then the GP pays the government rent. If they own it themselves they pay a mortgage. The GP gets a sum of money on a yearly basis out of which all staffing costs, equipment costs and consumables are paid. Anything left over is then split amongst the GPs. GPs are essentially running a small business.
So just to be clear: All the rent, staffing and equipment is paid by the taxpayer? One way or another.
You appear to be only listening to half of what malianera is saying. They get a payment for staffing equipment etc. from the NHS anything left over is split between the GPs anything short is paid for by the GPs so your statement is wrong, all is not paid for by the taxpayer. Also it is a case of the practise purchase and then get a payment back per year. The NHS do not buy it. Think of it like using your car on company business, you buy it and get paid for using it. So did your employer pay for your car.
Each GP also has to buy in to the practise. The amount is dependant on the assets belonging to the surgery but is usually a significant outgoing for a new GP.0 -
Richard_D wrote:You appear to be only listening to half of what malianera is saying. They get a payment for staffing equipment etc. from the NHS anything left over is split between the GPs anything short is paid for by the GPs so your statement is wrong, all is not paid for by the taxpayer. Also it is a case of the practise purchase and then get a payment back per year. The NHS do not buy it. Think of it like using your car on company business, you buy it and get paid for using it. So did your employer pay for your car.
Each GP also has to buy in to the practise. The amount is dependant on the assets belonging to the surgery but is usually a significant outgoing for a new GP.
Not sure. Do they ever make a loss?
Can it ever be a real business when you only have one customer, but they're not really your customer.
Strikes me as a very dodgy part privatisation.
Don't mean to have a big dig at GPs. I'm sure some of them are good and work hard, I just don't really see what they add.0 -
TheStone wrote:
Not sure. Do they ever make a loss?
Can it ever be a real business when you only have one customer, but they're not really your customer.
Strikes me as a very dodgy part privatisation.
Don't mean to have a big dig at GPs. I'm sure some of them are good and work hard, I just don't really see what they add.
As a professional partnership they do not make a loss but neither do they necessarily make a profit. The GPs on the whole are not salaried. Their pay is in effect the profit of the practise.
It is not dodgy privatisation as the GPs were never nationalised in the first place. On the whole with the exception of medicals and the occasional expert witness their only customer is the NHS.
I am sorry but yours and several others have come across as digs at the GPs. It is not some it is most that work hard. It still has a high suicide rate through stress.
As to what they add it is a case of where do I start as many of the tasks I see them doing do not link to what they should be doing but what needs to be doing. If each organisation did what they should do then there would be less for them to do
Hours spent getting patients readmitted to hospital because they were discharged too early
Hours spent chasing up social services to do their Job.
Hours spent ensuring abused people are properly dealt with
Hours spent dealing with social issues that would historically have been dealt with within a family or with the local priest or vicar.
Hours spent working their way around the internal market to ensure that their patient is dealt with at the right place at the right time. Post code lottery in another form.
What is seen by the patient in the consulting room is just the tip of the iceberg of what is expected of a GP.0 -
so lets just catch up on the common ground between GPs and a vast swathe of the employed populace:-
- works long hours - check
- responsible for other people's welfare - check
- studies for many years - check
- likley to suffer from stress at work - check
- gets paid 80 - 150k a year - errrrrrr.............................................................0 -
A French GP would charge you 23 euros (about £20) for a consultation and issuing the sports medical certificate. For that he would check your medical history, measure your blood pressure and resting heart rate and then get you do do some sort of exercise to get your pulse rate up and see how long it takes for your pulse rate to drop back down to a reasonable level once you stop. There's no public subsidy in France so the 23 euros covers the doctor's salary, insurance costs, surgery overheads, secretarial assistance, etc., etc.
Last year I did an "effort test" where they wire you up to an ECG machine while you pedal on an exercise bike at the teaching hospital's sports clinic. It takes thirty minutes and costs 30 euros, which pays for the equipment, the hospital technician and the presence of the junior doctor. The doctor is there to do the pre-test medical checks, to interpret the results and to revive you if your heart should play up. The doctor throws in the certificate at the end at no extra charge. Obviously 30 euros doesn't cover the real cost in this case but I suppose some French bureaucrat has calculated it's cheaper to encourage middle-aged men (and women) to get on their bikes and get healthy rather than paying out later for expensive hospital surgery due to couch potato syndrome.0 -
The above assessment certainly appears to be more detailed- but is this the standard you should expect from every french GP issuing a certificate?? If so, great stuff.
And for that price is certainly not prohibitively expensive...0 -
What exactly do people think GPs should be paid? I can tell you I earn a lot less than the figures being quoted in this thread.
I think years od the Daily Mail has given people a misconception of what a GP actually does. As mentioned before seeing patients in the consultation room is only a part of it.
And whoever quoted that GPs earn more than hospital docs- maybe on the NHS but plenty have a very lucrative private practice which can earn a lot of extra. But that's entirely within their rights to do.
I suppose the people complaining about GP pay will be giving all their disposable income after bills and food are paid for to charity then. Or maybe they advocate a communist state. If not then give over.0 -
It's not about what a GP should be paid or how much they get in subsidies from the NHS. Generally, I don't think GPs are overpaid.
I think it's already been well established that the cost of a medical to ride the Etape, Marmotte or complete any other sporting event is not covered by the NHS.
It's the fact that some doctors seem to think it reasonable to charge up to £150 for 10-15 minutes of their time. That is nothing but pure greed.
For the record, I'm an Engineer in the aviation industry. I am well paid. Somewhere in the region of what a British GP allegedly earns, so I know exactly how much the company I work for charges externally for my time (including overheads, IT, indemnity insurance etc.). It is nowhere near £600-£900 an hour!0 -
As to what they add it is a case of where do I start as many of the tasks I see them doing do not link to what they should be doing but what needs to be doing. If each organisation did what they should do then there would be less for them to do
Hours spent getting patients readmitted to hospital because they were discharged too early
Hours spent chasing up social services to do their Job.
Hours spent ensuring abused people are properly dealt with
Hours spent dealing with social issues that would historically have been dealt with within a family or with the local priest or vicar.
Substitute GP for Police Officer, sounds like what we spend a lot of our time doing!!!0 -
Then campaign for higher police pay, not for lower GP pay.0
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oxoneil wrote:As to what they add it is a case of where do I start as many of the tasks I see them doing do not link to what they should be doing but what needs to be doing. If each organisation did what they should do then there would be less for them to do
Hours spent getting patients readmitted to hospital because they were discharged too early
Hours spent chasing up social services to do their Job.
Hours spent ensuring abused people are properly dealt with
Hours spent dealing with social issues that would historically have been dealt with within a family or with the local priest or vicar.
Substitute GP for Police Officer, sounds like what we spend a lot of our time doing!!!
Lots of people do tasks that are not in their job description and is over and above what is should be expected of them.
This does not justify charging £600-£900 an hour to do a simple medical check, read the patients notes (which for a healthy person who goes to the doctor once in a blue moon, will be brief) and sign a pre-printed form0 -
Well I've now got my certificate signed and stamped, the cost? £0.00, free!!! The doctor I saw has been on the GB triathlon squad and he was clearly more than happy to take my word that I'd been cycling for 20 years, done over 350 time trials and plenty of long rides and just check my heart beat and my blood pressure.
So the moral of the story is, find yourself and sporty GP. Needless to say I left the surgery with forms to transfer there.0 -
I did the Etape about 8 years ago. I remember that I scribbled a name upon the medical form that I printed from the etape website or had been provided with and sent that in. In other words I faked it and got away with it. That was in the good old days when you could pay about £65 and enter on your own without 'joining' an organised package.
Good luck anyway.0 -
jonathan2 wrote:I did the Etape about 8 years ago. I remember that I scribbled a name upon the medical form that I printed from the etape website or had been provided with and sent that in. In other words I faked it and got away with it. That was in the good old days when you could pay about £65 and enter on your own without 'joining' an organised package.
Good luck anyway.
I haven't entered through any company, just registered myself and there are 3 of us just driving down.0
