Renshaw

plectrum

Is Mark finding it tough being the team sprinter or is Rabobank just devoid of a challenging train? If the season continues as it is and he has no success in Tour what are the odds of a return to Cav's train for 2013 regardless of whether Cav wins Giro and Tour jerseys?

alwaystoohot

He does seem to be isolated and out of contention. Seems to be a team problem for the timebeing.

Yellow Peril

Alwaystoohot wrote:

He does seem to be isolated and out of contention. Seems to be a team problem for the timebeing.

My thoughts as well. I think now it is obvious how important the other parts of the train (besides Cav and Renshaw) were at HTC. They had big engines like Grabsch and Martin who could pull the train hard from a long way out and control it all the way in which is something that Sky are replicating with the likes of Stannard.

Renshaw's problems are exacerbated by the fact that his sprint partner at Rabobank is Bos who rides like a blind man on a bicycle.

TMR

I'm going to be controversial. I read Renshaw's tweets quite often, and I suspect he realises he's made a mistake. I think you'll see him at SKY next season...

Pross

People keep going on about trains and how sprinters aren't winning because their train isn't good enough. Hardly any sprinters have relied on trains over the years and even those that have (mainly Cippo and Cav) would probably have still won most of their sprints without them. Renshaw isn't winning as he isn't a quick enough sprinter as the main man. If he was, with his race craft in the final few kms he would have no problem getting into and maintaining a good position for the sprint.

greasedscotsman

Pross wrote:

People keep going on about trains and how sprinters aren't winning because their train isn't good enough. Hardly any sprinters have relied on trains over the years and even those that have (mainly Cippo and Cav) would probably have still won most of their sprints without them. Renshaw isn't winning as he isn't a quick enough sprinter as the main man. If he was, with his race craft in the final few kms he would have no problem getting into and maintaining a good position for the sprint.

Totally agree with you. I think even Cipo won his fair shair of races without a train.

ilovebigwig

Renshaw will definitely go to SKY, he's been riding on the back of their train throughout the Giro on with tears in his eyes at the poor efforts to deliver Cav properly.

rick_chasey

He went to the talent graveyard for cash.

Bet he's paid more at Rabo than he was at HTC.

Monty Zoncolan

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I'm going to be controversial. I read Renshaw's tweets quite often, and I suspect he realises he's made a mistake. I think you'll see him at SKY next season...

I'd be interested to know - how much of Renshaw joining Rabobank was his choice, as opposed to sky not wanting him enough or at all?

Pross

Harmon suggesting Renshaw should revert to type and become a leadout man for Bos. If that happens then he has surely made a backwards move?

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

Harmon suggesting Renshaw should revert to type and become a leadout man for Bos. If that happens then he has surely made a backwards move?

Depends how you measure backwards. I'm sure his bank account is going forwards at a faster rate :P.

Coriander

Monty Zoncolan wrote:

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I'm going to be controversial. I read Renshaw's tweets quite often, and I suspect he realises he's made a mistake. I think you'll see him at SKY next season...

I'd be interested to know - how much of Renshaw joining Rabobank was his choice, as opposed to sky not wanting him enough or at all?

In an interview in this month's Cycle Sport he says that Sky didn't want him enough (and I didn't feel he was talking about money).

B3rnieMac

I can see what led him to join rabo, either be a lead out man for ever or maybe have the chance to win a few stages of your own as an outright sprinter? Instead of just following cav and having that "what if?" in his head, he bit the bullet and went off on his own. And at least know he knows.

TMR

Monty Zoncolan wrote:

I'd be interested to know - how much of Renshaw joining Rabobank was his choice, as opposed to sky not wanting him enough or at all?

I don't know if we'll ever know what happened properly, but I did read a recent interview of Goss, Cav & Renshaw is Pro Cycling where Cav described how hurt he was that Renshaw hadn't come with him to SKY. I don't feel it was a money decision, if Renshaw hadn't wanted to go to SKY then he'd have been paid what he's worth.

I feel he went to Rabo to prove himself. He's proved he's not a No.1 sprinter, so he needs to get back to what he's best at. Harsh, but true.

mroli

Bit early doors for this sort of judgement isn't it? I mean, he's won races, he's worked for Bos in races, when you say he's not a no1 sprinter - who apart from Cav (and then Greipel, Kittel and dare we say Sagan and Goss now) are? He's got to be tier below and he's got to get his head around doing his job at the sharper end 400m further down the road.

TMR

mroli wrote:

Bit early doors for this sort of judgement isn't it?

Is it? I don't think so. I'm happy to be proved wrong though

cycling5280

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I'm going to be controversial. I read Renshaw's tweets quite often, and I suspect he realises he's made a mistake. I think you'll see him at SKY next season...

If his season continues as is yeah he may want to but I don't think SKY wants him or needs him. Cav is doing just fine. He would also most likely have to take a big pay cut. I'd tell Renshaw to pretend Cav is his leadout teammate and go from there. The problem with that is that when Cav has a clean line to the finish line he almost never loses. www.1kmtogo.blogspot.com

TMR

cycling5280 wrote:

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I'm going to be controversial. I read Renshaw's tweets quite often, and I suspect he realises he's made a mistake. I think you'll see him at SKY next season...

If his season continues as is yeah he may want to but I don't think SKY wants him or needs him. Cav is doing just fine. He would also most likely have to take a big pay cut. I'd tell Renshaw to pretend Cav is his leadout teammate and go from there. The problem with that is that when Cav has a clean line to the finish line he almost never loses. http://www.1kmtogo.blogspot.com

I think SKY do need him. On a good day, their line out is a pale imitation of the HTC train. It stands to reason that Renshaw could only make it better.

cogidubnus

Sky don't need Renshaw in my opinion. Swift was going to be lead out before he crashed so Sky have had to make do. Wait till the tour and you have the "A" team to lead him out.

Cav is doing fine with a hit and miss train so once its been drilled throughout the season it will be fine.

Renshaw is a tier 2 sprinter at best, so is never going to beat the big boys in the grand tours. He should lead out in those and aim to win the smaller sprints

Tusher

I feel so sorry for Renshaw- he should have gone to Sky, where at least he would have got the chance to race for himself at *small* races, with the benefit of a train.

But perhaps he would always have been wondering "what if...." and I agree, at least he tried and now he knows. He may win one or two races, but I can't see him winning a GT stage. Although I would be delighted for him if he did.

And no, I don't think he'll find a berth at Sky next season. Together, they were class, but he needs Cav more than Cav needs him.

greasedscotsman

Tusher wrote:

...but I can't see him winning a GT stage...

He has already won two Grand Tour stages.

Tusher

fail

B3rnieMac

greasedscotsman wrote:

Tusher wrote:

...but I can't see him winning a GT stage...

He has already won two Grand Tour stages.

Excluding TTTs....

greasedscotsman

B3rnieMac wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Tusher wrote:

...but I can't see him winning a GT stage...

He has already won two Grand Tour stages.

Excluding TTTs....

OK, fair enough. You go and tell Mark Cavendish he hasn't won 12 stages in the Giro then.

B3rnieMac

greasedscotsman wrote:

B3rnieMac wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Tusher wrote:

...but I can't see him winning a GT stage...

He has already won two Grand Tour stages.

Excluding TTTs....

OK, fair enough. You go and tell Mark Cavendish he hasn't won 12 stages in the Giro then.

Well if he counts those two he'd stand more chance of winning more TTTs with sky than with rabofail

Moomaloid

Not sure Sky need him... but i'm sure Cav would have him back in a sec.

Le Commentateur

Tusher wrote:

Together, they were class, but he needs Cav more than Cav needs him.

Like Simon & Garfunkel, eh?

smithy21

I will give Renshaw credit for trying to make it on his own as a main sprinter but just don't think he has the speed.

Sky don't need him. He may or may not be the best lead out man in the world but that's like being the best reserve goalkeeper in the Premiership.

liquor box

smithy21 wrote:

I will give Renshaw credit for trying to make it on his own as a main sprinter but just don't think he has the speed.

Sky don't need him. He may or may not be the best lead out man in the world but that's like being the best reserve goalkeeper in the Premiership.

I think who is in your train is what makes the difference, unless you can have a drag race where each individual runs a straight line with no assistance ( I would love to see this and would pay for it!!!).

If you had a fantasy team and told Goss to lead out Cav to lead out Renshaw he would win almost every race he entered, because of his lead out men. Theoretically there could be members of the current Sky team that are faster than Cav, but if they are told to lead him out from1km to 300m then you will never know it.

I would love to see a finish as an exhibition that had lanes on the road and let all team trains have a free run to the line just to see who has what power

thamacdaddy

Going into the final 1km yesterday renshaw had been on cavs wheel the whole run in. He wasn't really a feature at the end. Of the Htc guys goss is and always was the biggest threat to cav.

I said on another thread and strongly believe sky don't need to recreate the Htc train as what they are trying to do is different. What they are doing now and in the tour is just fine. Renshaw at sky? They might not need him but I think that decision will come down to cav himself, if there was opportunity and he really wanted him then I am sure they would get him.

Moomaloid

Personally i'm not even sure Cav needs a train. He's shown he's def the most canny rider in a sprint. Always switches the right wheel at the right time. He's got the best and most dominant kick of the sprinters and could easily sit on the tail of another teams train. This is why i believe that sky could take more riders in support of Wiggins to the tour. Also if they're not taking enough key riders to form a train, then the other teams can't always look to them to chase down everything.