confused about core training...

Matchstick Man

mamba80 wrote:

P Tucker : This is meant in the nicest possible way but you do come across as a conceited xxxx

He is, but you can't doubt what he says though, even if his delivery leaves a lot to be desired

Matchstick Man

slowsider wrote:

how can articles on running not count? ]

It's a different sport. Otherwise I'd expect Mo Farah to beat Bradley Wiggins in the TdF

slowsider wrote:

I'd be curious how as a certified Association of British Cycling Coaches Level 3 cycle coach, Ric compares the British Cycling web site assertion that

Riders can usually improve their training and performance on the bike by including Core Stability exercises as part of their programme. ..... Core Stability training may improve a rider's performance and riding comfort as well as reducing the risk of injury by improving balance and co-ordination.

So do I ask British Cycling about core strength work for my children (7 and 2.5) to assist them in their cycling or will they say "whoooosh" as well?

rodgerthat

Matchstick Man wrote:

slowsider wrote:

how can articles on running not count? ]

It's a different sport. Otherwise I'd expect Mo Farah to beat Bradley Wiggins in the TdF

slowsider wrote:

I'd be curious how as a certified Association of British Cycling Coaches Level 3 cycle coach, Ric compares the British Cycling web site assertion that

Riders can usually improve their training and performance on the bike by including Core Stability exercises as part of their programme. ..... Core Stability training may improve a rider's performance and riding comfort as well as reducing the risk of injury by improving balance and co-ordination.

So do I ask British Cycling about core strength work for my children (7 and 2.5) to assist them in their cycling or will they say "whoooosh" as well?

I have been riding my bike for over forty years and can categorically state that the majority, nay, every - crash I have ever seen has been due to poor bike handling skills, road reading or stupidity. The time wasted on holding in your stomach muscles in would be better spent riding on a bike if you want to improve. Same goes for your kids by the way.

singleton

Mog,

You initial comment was that you were confused by core training.

I'm sure that by now all that confusion must have melted away into utter clarity... :shock: :shock: :?

mustol

Rodgerthat,

If you had an injury that prevented you from cycling, how could you improve as a cyclist? I was in that situation and by doing lots of core strength work, I am gradually overcoming that injury. This means that I am able to spend more time on my bike and therefore, core strength has affected my ability as a cyclist! By the way, core strength exercises have nothing to do with holding in your stomach muscles, you have to go a bit deeper than that, but as you're obviously immune from injury and will be able to ride your bike every day for the rest of your life, I'm sure you'll never need to understand.

rodgerthat

mustol wrote:

Rodgerthat,

If you had an injury that prevented you from cycling, how could you improve as a cyclist? I was in that situation and by doing lots of core strength work, I am gradually overcoming that injury. This means that I am able to spend more time on my bike and therefore, core strength has affected my ability as a cyclist! By the way, core strength exercises have nothing to do with holding in your stomach muscles, you have to go a bit deeper than that, but as you're obviously immune from injury and will be able to ride your bike every day for the rest of your life, I'm sure you'll never need to understand.

Where did I say anything about being injured? I really do hope you can continue to recover and enjoy your bike. I said that to become a better cyclist (not faster, or stronger as you seem to imply) your time might be better spent actually riding a bike than poncing around in a gym.Luckily a combination of luck and skill has prevented my having any serious crashes, although they do happen to the best of us. I don't take this for granted and practice cornering and descending on a regular basis.

mustol

Rodgerthat,

Sorry if my reply seemed a little abrupt, but my overall point is that core exercises (and various other cross training) can benefit you as a cyclist - no they may not make you descend faster or corner better, but in the long term, they can help us spend more time on our bikes and surely that's what counts. It does seem that a lot of cyclists - particularly those that have been cycling for a long time, believe that only cycling benefits you as a cyclist and other forms of exercise are a waste of time. Anyway, I don't mind a bit of 'poncing' around in the gym - nowt queer as folk!

Davey C

mustol wrote:

Rodgerthat,

Sorry if my reply seemed a little abrupt, but my overall point is that core exercises (and various other cross training) can benefit you as a cyclist - no they may not make you descend faster or corner better, but in the long term, they can help us spend more time on our bikes and surely that's what counts. It does seem that a lot of cyclists - particularly those that have been cycling for a long time, believe that only cycling benefits you as a cyclist and other forms of exercise are a waste of time. Anyway, I don't mind a bit of 'poncing' around in the gym - nowt queer as folk!

Unless you have a need identified by a trained professional, core work will make no difference to your cycling. The same applies for pretty much all other exercises other than actually riding your bike.

d87heaven

Davey C wrote:

Unless you have a need identified by a trained professional, core work will make no difference to your cycling. The same applies for pretty much all other exercises other than actually riding your bike.

Borad strokes with a wide brush....... I can think of some instances where exercises can have a difference (even if that difference is injury prevention which lets you train more, or comfort off the bike which makes you want to train more)
Often a cyclist will present with tight psoas muscle(s) causing symptoms such as back ache, something like a squat lunge would help out in keeping the psoas lengthened. I'm being a bit pedantic but it seems to be all the rage on this forum. Personally instead of gym membership I would waste my money on a good sports massage which I think would be more benficial.

Davey C

Yeah....I'm going to need some evidence before I start with the squats

d87heaven

Evidence that a squat lunge can stretch the Psoas?

Davey C

d87heaven wrote:

Evidence that a squat lunge can stretch the Psoas?

That it will prevent cycling related injuries please.

d87heaven

If you care to look at a basic anatomy book and see the origin and insertion points for a psoas you can see the problem with a shortened/inhibited psoas. You might even be able to relate it to a cyclists position on the bike.
You might even be able to work out how a lunge would stretch the said muscle.
But then again maybe you can't.

Davey C

Yeah looks like an important muscle. I'll still need something other than a hypothesis to convince me that cycling requires squat/lunges to prevent me turning into the hunchback of notre dame.

d87heaven

Read any decent manual therapy book.

P_Tucker

d87heaven wrote:

Read any decent manual therapy book.

Okay, I've perused "a history of playboy", and I can report that my psoas lengthened, then shortened and now I can't get it to lengthen again. Would squats help?

P_Tucker

mamba80 wrote:

P Tucker : This is meant in the nicest possible way but you do come across as a conceited xxxx

Well, I suspect that's because I am. Good to know my contempt for idiocy isn't lost in translation.

d87heaven

P_Tucker wrote:

d87heaven wrote:

Read any decent manual therapy book.

Okay, I've perused "a history of playboy", and I can report that my psoas lengthened, then shortened and now I can't get it to lengthen again. Would squats help?

You've confirmed you're a tosser so I don't think anything can really help.

P_Tucker

d87heaven wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

d87heaven wrote:

Read any decent manual therapy book.

Okay, I've perused "a history of playboy", and I can report that my psoas lengthened, then shortened and now I can't get it to lengthen again. Would squats help?

You've confirmed you're a tosser so I don't think anything can really help.

Not even squats? I thought you said they could. Make up your mind FFS

TKF

P_Tucker wrote:

NB unless you have some specific need identified by a medical professional of your national team track coach, core strength training will in no way make any measurable difference to any aspect of your life, including (but not limited to) your cycling.

Mr Tucker, I enjoy your posts because your brand of sarcasm is a fresh breeze amongst the mamils.

However I disagree with the bold bit from personal experience. I've been doing TRX workouts for a while now and when I'm doing stuff out in the real world I'm better than I used to be. And I'm a scientist wiv a BSc and everything so I know all about things and stuff and being able to measure them. My twin wasn't around as a control for the experiment so I'm gonna ask for leap of faith and hope you believe me.

NB this is from a base of doing nothing but sit for a decade. If you're a generally fit and sporty person it might make less of a difference.

Science!

P_Tucker

Why thank you. And I enjoyed your satirical mockery of the childish reasoning of a number of contributors to this thread.

Davey C

P_Tucker wrote:

Why thank you. And I enjoyed your satirical mockery of the childish reasoning of a number of contributors to this thread.

+1

TKF wins the thread.

phreak

Whole lot of willy waving going on in here.

cookiemonster

I feel that some of the disagreement comes about due to different views on the question being asked.

If we take the question as "Will core training improve my cycling?", the Rics, Alexs, P_tuckers, etc perhaps read this as meaning something like

"If we took a cohort of good amateur racers, with one half as a control group with 12 hours on the bike training a week, while the experimental group received 10 hours on the bike and 2 hours core training, would we see an improvement in power output of the experimental group over the control over a defined time period, say, 1 or 2 months?"

The answer to this is likely no, with a reasonable chance that the experimental group could show less performance the control.

However others appear to read the question as meaning something like:

"As a mid-30's club cyclist with a sedentary desk job and some injuries picked up over the years, could core work help me improve my general well being, stay injury free on the bike, avoid the muscle imbalances, knee problems, ITB issues and back pain I see occurring with my peers and allow me to both increase my training volume and continue cycling into my 40s, 50s and beyond"

Now, personally I reckon the answer to this question is likely yes, but my greater point is that there may be very different views on what even a simple question is actually asking

jon

ric/rstsport

there is no good evidence to support "prehab".

Davey C

cookiemonster wrote:

I feel that some of the disagreement comes about due to different views on the question being asked.

If we take the question as "Will core training improve my cycling?", the Rics, Alexs, P_tuckers, etc perhaps read this as meaning something like

"If we took a cohort of good amateur racers, with one half as a control group with 12 hours on the bike training a week, while the experimental group received 10 hours on the bike and 2 hours core training, would we see an improvement in power output of the experimental group over the control over a defined time period, say, 1 or 2 months?"

The answer to this is likely no, with a reasonable chance that the experimental group could show less performance the control.

However others appear to read the question as meaning something like:

"As a mid-30's club cyclist with a sedentary desk job and some injuries picked up over the years, could core work help me improve my general well being, stay injury free on the bike, avoid the muscle imbalances, knee problems, ITB issues and back pain I see occurring with my peers and allow me to both increase my training volume and continue cycling into my 40s, 50s and beyond"

Now, personally I reckon the answer to this question is likely yes, but my greater point is that there may be very different views on what even a simple question is actually asking

jon

Hmmm. Except that the responses given to question 2 have all been things like 'I FEEL better' and 'I BELIEVE it will help me avoid injuries etc' without actual proof.

Davey C

Seems Ric and and I had the same thought.

Davey C

phreak wrote:

Whole lot of willy waving going on in here.

I'm sat on a beach ball while I wave my willy. My CORE has never been stronger.

napoleond

I'll qualify that then.
Before I started core work I couldn't use the wham ram on the top lock of a door, I couldn't swing it up without my back giving way.
Having done core work I can now.

Davey C

Before doing squats I couldn't bend my legs with a heavy weight on my shoulders and stand back up again. Having done squats I am able to do that now.