Silly Commuter Time trial

okgo

lol

Weight shouldn't come into it, its not the alps, its a pretty flat park! As you prove, you can still lap it quick even if you're a big guy. And as others prove, you can still lap it quick if you're a whippet!

jzed

Oh ok - I still qualify for a 3 minute per lap handicap.

If you look at the 3 lap challenge page, you'll see a correlation between time and weight. There are exceptions but generally the heavier you are the slower you are.

In all honesty I have no idea how you'd work out a handicap system. Maybe everyone takes an average of their top 5/10 times and then you TT against your own time and the winner is the person who manages the biggest % improvement.

The 3 lap challenge page is good enough for me.

clarkey cat

i thought you weighed like 12 stone now JZed?

okgo

I suppose yeh, that's why I was thinking 1 lap is enough, short enough for the big guys not to really feel it.

bigmat

Its all about power to weight. The "anomalies" on the 3-lap challenge board obviously have massive power. JZed, surely you aren't saying that you have power issues?

jzed

clarkey cat wrote:

i thought you weighed like 12 stone now JZed?

Yeah I did but went on an all beers inclusive holdiay for a week and ballooned. Now on starvation diet again.

okgo

BigMat wrote:

Its all about power to weight. The "anomalies" on the 3-lap challenge board obviously have massive power. JZed, surely you aren't saying that you have power issues?

That would be the way to work it out. On a Watt/kg basis. I worked all mine out from when I borrowed the powertap, but most people don't have a powertap.

jzed

BigMat wrote:

Its all about power to weight. The "anomalies" on the 3-lap challenge board obviously have massive power. JZed, surely you aren't saying that you have power issues?

Power could be better, weight could be less.

Here's a scatter chart of time v weight for 2011/2012. Lots of anomolies but a general trend upwards with weight

mr_ribble

Jumped on the scales last night for it to read 13s 13lbs.
When I was playing rugby a few years back I was north of 16 stone. Funny, as weight was an advantage back then as long as your top line speed wasnt affected.

Its also a lot easier to make people hurt on a rugby field. No greater pleasure than running at someone full tilt and dropping your shoulder to inflict maximum damage.. anyway I digress.

We could all just maybe go to Hillingdon one Saturday and race a 3/4s.. have to be quick before okgo moves up.

clarkey cat

same weight as me Mr Ribble... but arent you like 5 9"?

mr_ribble

JZed wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Its all about power to weight. The "anomalies" on the 3-lap challenge board obviously have massive power. JZed, surely you aren't saying that you have power issues?

Power could be better, weight could be less.

Here's a scatter chart of time v weight for 2011/2012. Lots of anomolies but a general trend upwards with weight

Correlation doesn't imply causation. Fat people are fat because they are less motivated and so dont push themselves as hard on a 3 lap challenge

Also those two outliers could be skewing things a fair bit

mr_ribble

clarkey cat wrote:

same weight as me Mr Ribble... but arent you like 5 9"?

err no... add four inches onto that.

I'm a fat third cat

okgo

I've gone from 95kg or so to 80. I'm a far better all round rider now! And I bet I still have 95% of the 5 second power I had when I was bigger. I'm a lot weaker though, I used to do close grip 70kg bench presses as a warm up to hit the tri's, now I'm lucky if I can even push it 5x5 in normal grip!

With regards to power and weight, obviously its rare for real lightweights to have lots of power, people that do are often VERY fast. From doing my power testing it showed that I have plenty of it, but I'm not very aero, and even at 80kg I'm often one of the heavier riders in a race.

mr_ribble

According to wiki tommeke is 83kg. But he is like 6 four and got long levers.

Watch he position on a bike though and you could eat a dinner from that back. Something that a lot of people going round the park dripping in bling should take note of.

mr_ribble

Although.. remember kids "just say no"

okgo

Yeh, its not through the lack of wanting that position for most people, but probably that their body won't allow it!

I think I need a 130/140 mm stem to really stretch out.

Still, the bigger you are the more watts you need, simple! Its not like every guy at 80+kg can have legs like Fabian! I reckon he'd do a 12.xx round the park.

okgo

So did we ever get something together for this?

cyclingprop

No.

rick_chasey

Mr_Ribble wrote:

According to wiki tommeke is 83kg. But he is like 6 four and got long levers.

Watch he position on a bike though and you could eat a dinner from that back. Something that a lot of people going round the park dripping in bling should take note of.

Gets down to 80 for the Tour.

He's changed his position this year. Was less flat :P.

What I notice with pros is how much more stretched out they are to us amateurs. My back/hamstring can't handle the kind of stretch a lot of pros have.

okgo

The joys of having massage on tap etc.

I'm pretty flat in the drops but wouldn't want to spend 7 hours there! However for the most part of any race you can sit on the hoods getting dragged along I guess. Not everyone has that position though, look at Cav, looks like a sportive rider most of the time.

rick_chasey

okgo wrote:

The joys of having massage on tap etc.

I'm pretty flat in the drops but wouldn't want to spend 7 hours there! However for the most part of any race you can sit on the hoods getting dragged along I guess. Not everyone has that position though, look at Cav, looks like a sportive rider most of the time.

I've said this over on pro-race: for a rider as successful as he is, he doesn't remotely look like an athlete. There are guys on club runs I've seen who are plenty more cut than he is.

okgo

He's pretty cut, if you see him when he's doing a time trial, when you can see his calves etc, they're huge.

The thing with cycling is that it doesn't actually matter what you look like as such, there are some with huge cut legs and calves that are just as powerful as others that don't, a lot of that is down to weight/power again, I went for a ride with a chap yesterday who I would estimate isn't much over 9.5 stone, he is RAPID on the flat and up hill. Me on the other hand have legs like his waist and the only thing I can probably do better than him is sprint and short bursts.

bigmat

I'm relatively good up hills for a fat lad (in Pro Race terms), and I mean long hills - alps and the like. Not going to be setting any records, but I can hang with most people. My sprint, on the other hand, is not the best. I'm sort of like a poor man's Indurain (when I say poor, I mean destitute, in the gutter with a dog on a piece of string for company poor....)

cyclingprop

BigMat wrote:

I'm relatively good up hills for a fat lad (in Pro Race terms), and I mean long hills - alps and the like. Not going to be setting any records, but I can hang with most people. My sprint, on the other hand, is not the best. I'm sort of like a poor man's Indurain (when I say poor, I mean destitute, in the gutter with a dog on a piece of string for company poor....)

If you're a fat lad I count as two people

okgo

There's only a handful of guys in the pro peleton over 80kg, its certainly not the done thing. And it makes a difference on the hills. However back on topic, I still don't think it makes any difference round Richmond Park really, I managed to set a decent time for 3 laps at I'm 12 kg heavier than Tarmac Expert and until he went and smashed it with his TT bike we were not a million miles away.

bigmat

okgo wrote:

There's only a handful of guys in the pro peloton over 80kg, its certainly not the done thing. And it makes a difference on the hills. However back on topic, I still don't think it makes any difference round Richmond Park really, I managed to set a decent time for 3 laps at I'm 12 kg heavier than Tarmac Expert and until he went and smashed it with his TT bike we were not a million miles away.

Only bit of Richmond Park where being lighter might help is Dark Hill, but its so short I wouldn't say it was a massive factor. Being small might help as generally more aero. I really need to do something to make myself more aero for my next effort, but skinsuit not really an option when stopping off on the way home from work (my pockets were stuffed with wallet, keys, lights, spare tube, pump etc etc last time), and its too far from home to risk riding without puncture repair kit etc. Any tips for the TT? Will wear skinsuit, shoe covers, remove bottle cages, what else is an option on a road bike? What is the deal with taping lids?!

okgo

Steve went slower than me up Dark Hill each time when he did that 45 minute effort the other day. Aero is very important, Steve obviously has his power figs for all to see, I don't know mine, but to get even close to his time I would estimate based on other numbers where I have had power that my 50 min effort required around 340-360 watts to his 300, part of that will be the weight, but lots will be down to how aero he is.

Yeh I went out with a bottle, and a pump gaffer taped to my frame with a saddlebag with tube etc in. not ideal, but I ain't walking home!

Hmm, I've not done the TT before, but SkinSuit is important obviously, I don't bother with shoe covers, I'll remove cages too I think, drop the stem down as although its not ideal over 60 miles, it will be fine for 10, and getting a bit lower will help. Taping the helmet (snigger) does apparently save a few watts, so I thought I'd do it, obviously I didn't notice the difference, but who knows! I might buy some shoe covers though.

Should be a good event, not sure what to do on pacing, only have HR I guess, will just have to see how I go. Obviously decent light tyres will help too, I've got some Ultremo R1's to stick on my Kysirums.

bigmat

Not really worth pacing yourself as the route does it for you - 100% to top of Sawyers, recover down to Kingston gate, 100% back to Richmond RAB, recover to Robin Hood RAB, 100% to finish line. When I say recover, you still go for it but naturally your heart rate moderates on the descents however hard you push (IME).

okgo

Maybe, we will see I guess!

I still have you as the man to beat in my head, I see Jim came 2nd one year with a 26.01, I will probably give it a go at some point in the next couple of weeks.

rick_chasey

BigMat wrote:

Not really worth pacing yourself as the route does it for you - 100% to top of Sawyers, recover down to Kingston gate, 100% back to Richmond RAB, recover to Robin Hood RAB, 100% to finish line. When I say recover, you still go for it but naturally your heart rate moderates on the descents however hard you push (IME).

It's even more like that if you're on an SS. If we take 100% to be basicailly sprinting - as hard as you can possibly go.

It's a good 90-95% effort to get to the top of Sawyers (anti-clockwise) and a good 100% effort to get to the top of Dark Hill. At my slowest I have to do Dark Hill at around 90% or so to stop me grinding to halt. Sawyers can be less with a bit tailwind, and near 100% with a big headwind.

After Dark Hill it's a case of holding on untill the decent.

Unfortunately, my lower back often gives up before my legs do with those kind of super hard grindy efforts out of the saddle.