PTP ethics and the Giro

No_Ta_Doctor

It seems like the two main favourites for the Giro (going by PTP picks) are both tainted by Puerto.
I'm not criticising anyone for picking them, but I never want to pick riders I don't like and don't want to do well and doping plays a fairly large part in that. As far as I can see the outsiders for the race also seem to come from teams that might not be the cleanest in the peloton. For some reason I never want e.g. an Astana rider on my conscience...

I've pretty much surrendered myself to taking a fair PTP beating on the GC, I just want to find a rider I could enjoy getting a half decent position.

So help me out - who looks like the best chance of a cleanish, likeable PTP point or two? I'm struggling here.

LeicesterLad

I have the same issues regarding Astana, but i'm probably going to go with Kreuziger, I like him as a rider, and may have made the mistake of trusting him.

inkyfingers

This is the Giro we are talking about, I can't remember the last time it was won by a rider who hasn't served a ban or hasn't been implicated in a doping story.

PTP is for winning, if you never pick any suspicious riders then there's no point in doing it as you won't win.

No_Ta_Doctor

inkyfingers wrote:

This is the Giro we are talking about, I can't remember the last time it was won by a rider who hasn't served a ban or hasn't been implicated in a doping story.

PTP is for winning, if you never pick any suspicious riders then there's no point in doing it as you won't win.

I play PTP for fun. Yes I want a decent ranking, but not at the expense of having to cheer for a rider I don't like. I appreciate that others may take the PTP a little more seriously but that's not my cup of tea.

No_Ta_Doctor

LeicesterLad wrote:

I have the same issues regarding Astana, but i'm probably going to go with Kreuziger, I like him as a rider, and may have made the mistake of trusting him.

I'm tempted. I don't like being overly cycnical, but...Astana?....

rick_chasey

The cut & thrust of PTP has no room for morals.

Morals are for PTP wimps.

Hard PTP men embrace the jungle juicers, harnessing them to their advantage. :twisted:

Mwahahaha.

No_Ta_Doctor

Rick Chasey wrote:

The cut & thrust of PTP has no room for morals.

Morals are for PTP wimps.

Hard PTP men embrace the jungle juicers, harnessing them to their advantage. :twisted:

Mwahahaha.

You work in the financial sector, don't you?

Of course picking Basso would be PTP wheelsucking, whereas picking Kreuziger has a modicum of panache.

rick_chasey

No tA Doctor wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The cut & thrust of PTP has no room for morals.

Morals are for PTP wimps.

Hard PTP men embrace the jungle juicers, harnessing them to their advantage. :twisted:

Mwahahaha.

You work in the financial sector, don't you?

Of course picking Basso would be PTP wheelsucking, whereas picking Kreuziger has a modicum of panache.

Worse, recruitment in the financial sector .

avoidingmyphd

LeicesterLad wrote:

I have the same issues regarding Astana, but i'm probably going to go with Kreuziger, I like him as a rider, and may have made the mistake of trusting him.

His job, which he happens to perform mainly on a bicycle, is to generate positive publicity for a murderous authoritarian government. This is not a great starting point for trust .
http://www.hrw.org/europecentral-asia/kazakhstan
Anyway, the only moral issue in cycling is doping.

Monty Zoncolan

Rick Chasey wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The cut & thrust of PTP has no room for morals.

Morals are for PTP wimps.

Hard PTP men embrace the jungle juicers, harnessing them to their advantage. :twisted:

Mwahahaha.

You work in the financial sector, don't you?

Of course picking Basso would be PTP wheelsucking, whereas picking Kreuziger has a modicum of panache.

Worse, recruitment in the financial sector .

Perfect standpoint to comment on dubious ethics then!

slimreaper

I have taught myself to separate who I want to win and who I think will win.

Plus I have no morals.

shinyhelmut

Ah but the real moral question is would you pick a rider who's known (or suspected) to ride with his jersey unzipped?

Pross

I've lost track of who has been convicted, who is under severe scrutiny and who is clean! I've gone for Kreuziger, not sure where he stands but I'm happy to take the risk and have a two year ban if he's caught - at least I will now get to compete in future Olympic PTP competitions.

iainf72

No tA Doctor wrote:

I play PTP for fun. Yes I want a decent ranking, but not at the expense of having to cheer for a rider I don't like. I appreciate that others may take the PTP a little more seriously but that's not my cup of tea.

You need to differentiate who you want to win vs who you think will win.

I struggle with this with people like Cavendish. If he never won a bike race again, I'd be happy. But that's not going to happen so I have to swallow down the sick and pick him from time to time

shockedsoshocked

If i had to ride a Grand Tour I'd be up to the gills too

TheStone

I get myself juiced up just to make my PTP pick.

TheBigBean

Ok. Top 12 favourites below. I'm not sure which of them you consider tainted, but it can't be all of them. Perhaps you could pick Gadret or Rujano?

Michele Scarponi
Ivan Basso
Frank Schleck
Roman Kreuziger
Jose Rujano
Joaquin Rodriguez
Domenico Pozzovivo
Damiano Cunego
John Gadret
Rigoberto Uran
Ryder Hesjedal
Sergio Luis Henao

I'm guessing the dodgy includes the following: Basso - Puerto, Scarponi - forgotten, but connected to something, Schleck - Puerto, Krueziger - Astana. Can anyone help fill in the blanks?

rick_chasey

This is all just a not-so-subtle ploy to get an upper hand in the PTP overall.

Watch out people.

LeicesterLad

Didn't even realise Rujano was riding. Going to have to update my Fecking blog now. :x

No_Ta_Doctor

Rick Chasey wrote:

This is all just a not-so-subtle ploy to get an upper hand in the PTP overall.

Watch out people.

Yes. I'm just hoping to channel you all into picking a hopeless 22 year old with clean blood and a nice smile. Then on Saturday morning BAM! PTP GC: Basso please.

No_Ta_Doctor

iainf72 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

I play PTP for fun. Yes I want a decent ranking, but not at the expense of having to cheer for a rider I don't like. I appreciate that others may take the PTP a little more seriously but that's not my cup of tea.

You need to differentiate who you want to win vs who you think will win.

I struggle with this with people like Cavendish. If he never won a bike race again, I'd be happy. But that's not going to happen so I have to swallow down the sick and pick him from time to time

I don't think I have quite as much bile to swallow as you about any rider, apart from a few of the dopers.

I generally find some balance between a rider I reckon could do well and a rider I reckon is alright.

But Basso, Scarponi, F. Schleck? I'd drown on the vomit....

No_Ta_Doctor

avoidingmyphd wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

I have the same issues regarding Astana, but i'm probably going to go with Kreuziger, I like him as a rider, and may have made the mistake of trusting him.

His job, which he happens to perform mainly on a bicycle, is to generate positive publicity for a murderous authoritarian government. This is not a great starting point for trust .
http://www.hrw.org/europecentral-asia/kazakhstan
Anyway, the only moral issue in cycling is doping.

Not all that far off the Sky riders then.... (Said in a Ben Elton "OOOoh, a little bit of politics" style)

iainf72

The problem is you're putting people in the "doper" category based on the past. So yes, all those people have been linked to things and served bans in some cases. Some may have changed their ways.

The others just haven't been nabbed yet.

calvjones

Dupont. If only cos Gadret is bald and hence must be an evil doper (cf. Pantani). Also, he doesn't like plucky Oirishmen and p1sses all over their chances of finishing 14th in a GT.

No_Ta_Doctor

iainf72 wrote:

The problem is you're putting people in the "doper" category based on the past. So yes, all those people have been linked to things and served bans in some cases. Some may have changed their ways.

The others just haven't been nabbed yet.

But of course. I don't have any objective criteria, it's all gut feeling and the Bikeradar index of suspicion.

calvjones wrote:

Dupont. If only cos Gadret is bald and hence must be an evil doper (cf. Pantani). Also, he doesn't like plucky Oirishmen and p1sses all over their chances of finishing 14th in a GT.

Hmmmm.... I like that. Hold on while I weight your opinion by reference to the current PTP table.










Oh.

Well thanks anyway

calvjones

Quantitative measures of success are overrated.

No_Ta_Doctor

calvjones wrote:

Quantitative measures of success are overrated.

Are you quoting from a conversation between Greipel and Cav?

RichN95.

It's only a game people. Picking a rider doesn't mean you like them.

In Monopoly, if you buy the Water Works it does not mean you favour the privatization of essential services and in Risk if you invade North Africa is does not necessarily follow that you adhere to imperialistic politics.

And we've not even touched on Hungry Hungry Hippos.

Monty Zoncolan

calvjones wrote:

Quantitative measures of success are overrated.

How do you measure the fact and extent of their over-ratedness?

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

It's only a game people. Picking a rider doesn't mean you like them.

In Monopoly, if you buy the Water Works it does not mean you favour the privatization of essential services and in Risk if you invade North Africa is does not necessarily follow that you adhere to imperialistic politics.

And we've not even touched on Hungry Hungry Hippos.

I don't play Monopoly on political principle. It refuses to let me re-nationalise the utilities and railways.

timoid.

RichN95 wrote:

It's only a game people. Picking a rider doesn't mean you like them.

In Monopoly, if you buy the Water Works it does not mean you favour the privatization of essential services and in Risk if you invade North Africa is does not necessarily follow that you adhere to imperialistic politics.

And we've not even touched on Hungry Hungry Hippos.

On form today Rich