David Millar
kentphil
Posts: 479
I haven't seen a thread on this yet, so I thought I'd start my own!
*EDIT there is one in Pro Race section; oh well
It appears he could be in the Olympics even though he had been caught taking performance enhancing drugs in the past and had a lifetime ban, which has been overturned.
is this right?
My personnel view is that he made a massive mistake which he regrets. He has served his punishment so why can't he race?
What's your view?
*EDIT there is one in Pro Race section; oh well
It appears he could be in the Olympics even though he had been caught taking performance enhancing drugs in the past and had a lifetime ban, which has been overturned.
is this right?
My personnel view is that he made a massive mistake which he regrets. He has served his punishment so why can't he race?
What's your view?
1998 Kona Cindercone in singlespeed commute spec
2013 Cannondale Caadx 1x10
2004 Giant TCR
2013 Cannondale Caadx 1x10
2004 Giant TCR
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Comments
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just seen it :-)1998 Kona Cindercone in singlespeed commute spec
2013 Cannondale Caadx 1x10
2004 Giant TCR0 -
The only positive (see what i did there) is that his contrition seemed genuine in wanting to be used as an example for others - he's certainly no ricco or dwain chambers, in that he's no habitual cheat or blatant glory hunter but...i'd still ban him - a cheat is a cheat is a cheat. It sends all the wrong signals to all the wrong people.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Tough one as I think any one that breaks the rules should be banned and the longer the better & in fact I'm all for life time bans as it is the only way to discourage people from cheating.
I know there are some people (such as miller who never failed a drugs test but admitted when asked that he had taken EPO once) who perhaps get banned and it was a mistake on their part, they were pressured by the team or they were too young and stupid to think they would get caught etc.
However I think cycling needs to go further than most others sports to get drugs and their users out of the sport and the sooner the better.
It is a shame though as I do really like DM and think that if he were in the team and fit he would be a real asset to the team who seem to be pushing Cav for gold. Plus I think he has gone about his post ban duties in a positive way and done much good work since, plus appears to have a no comment stance simply stating that its down to the selectors and asking people not to tweet his sister who works for Sky regarding the over ruling.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Done the time so he`s in-Cav wants him as the road captain , good enough for me.Whats the solution? Just pedal faster you baby.
Summer B,man Team Carbon LE#222
Winter Alan Top Cross
All rounder Spec. Allez.0 -
Much as I hate cheats, I do think a lifetime ban is unfair for the one offence. Everyones makes a mistake (or an error of judgement) and the rationale of an 18 year old athelete is very different to that of a wizzened old pro at 35. So, I think a heatlhy ban for the first offence is fine, caught twice? Game over.
So, in David Millar's case, he was sort of caught (or rather, fessed up) once and showed a great deal of contrition and regret. Hasn't been tested positive since. He's OK in my book.0 -
This has left me feeling really torn..
On the one hand a cheat is a cheat. They knew the consequences of their actions and that if (when) caught they would face a lifetime ban from the Olympics.
On the other hand.. Both Millar and Chambers have shown contrition for their acts, have worked closely with the anti-drugs authorities and bodies and are actively promoting drug free sport. Both have served their time.
Still confused as to how I feel. My gut instinct is that the IOC should make a stand and say it's their Olympics and they won't let anyone caught cheating whether through drugs or poor sportsmanship take part. But this will never happen in this day of litigation.0 -
Whatever the sport drugs cheats have cheated and denied (possibly) clean athletes of a chance at glory and that could be life changing for them.
The thing drugs cheats really regret is being exposed in the first place.
Even though the BOA' lifetime ban has been overuled it doesn't mean the likes of Millar and Chambers have to be selected, does it?Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Frank the tank wrote:
Even though the BOA' lifetime ban has been overuled it doesn't mean the likes of Millar and Chambers have to be selected, does it?
But if the athletes make the qualifying time/distance/criteria then don't get selected because they've tested positive in the past, surely this will open up the BOA to all kinds of lawsuits and legal action?0 -
CambsNewbie wrote:Frank the tank wrote:
Even though the BOA' lifetime ban has been overuled it doesn't mean the likes of Millar and Chambers have to be selected, does it?
But if the athletes make the qualifying time/distance/criteria then don't get selected because they've tested positive in the past, surely this will open up the BOA to all kinds of lawsuits and legal action?
Hence the (?)Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Much said on this topic already, and I'm sure we'll do it all again. This is such an emotive topic, just remember it's not worth falling out over.
Anyway, my tuppence worth: He did something very stupid. No-one knows this more than him. He has paid the price for it, serving a ban when he was going on to great things. He has done his time and deserves a second chance. Sometimes people do some very stupid things. Not sure his life/career should be ruined over it.Ecrasez l’infame0 -
The BOA I believe is one of only two country organisations who have this life time ban, why should Millar and Chambers be doubly punished ?.
I agree with other posters though twice caught and that's it.0 -
I don't go in for the one size fits all approach of BOA's lifetime ban. A case like Millar is different to a Ricco, or an Armstrong, if it were to ever happen that they finally prove something. Those two deserve a lifetime ban, Millar was repentant and has done a lot of work educating youngsters against the perils of doping. If anyone deserves a second chance, it's David Millar and I for one am happy for him.0
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Beatmaker wrote:I don't go in for the one size fits all approach of BOA's lifetime ban. A case like Millar is different to a Ricco, or an Armstrong, if it were to ever happen that they finally prove something. Those two deserve a lifetime ban, Millar was repentant and has done a lot of work educating youngsters against the perils of doping. If anyone deserves a second chance, it's David Millar and I for one am happy for him.
aye i agree - but what message does that send out. I think millar is a genuinely decent guy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Cleat Eastwood wrote:Beatmaker wrote:I don't go in for the one size fits all approach of BOA's lifetime ban. A case like Millar is different to a Ricco, or an Armstrong, if it were to ever happen that they finally prove something. Those two deserve a lifetime ban, Millar was repentant and has done a lot of work educating youngsters against the perils of doping. If anyone deserves a second chance, it's David Millar and I for one am happy for him.
aye i agree - but what message does that send out. I think millar is a genuinely decent guy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It sends out the message that the rules should be applied consistently. Therefore Chambers and Millar should not have had lifetime bans imposed when no other Olympic Association had done such a thing. From what I learned during the reading of Millar's excellent book, I would say he deserves a second chance. He was doing what the majority of the peloton were doing and was unfortunate enough to get caught. Since then he has done whatever he can to campaign for cleaning up the sport. That is more than many others have done. The circumstances leading up to him "cheating" would suggest that he felt he had little choice - cheat or curtail his career. As a young impressionable athlete I am not surprised he could not resist the pressure. I wish him luck in the rest of his career and look forward to seeing him ride again whether in the Olympics or not.0 -
No - he's a cheatin' lyin' dopin' slag - should be banned for life as all dopers should be.
He's played the game very well- get caught, deny it at first (oh, they were only souvenirs) then realise that your fiuture career depends on contrition (how about not having doped in the first place, eh, Dopey M you cheatin' lyin' dopin' slag).
And I don't believe any of this tosh about having no say in the matter - that's bollards. You have to agree to having a needle stuck in your arm at the end of the day.
Ban him, ban Chambers, ban the others for life: then and only then will people start to realise that maybe its a bit serious to get caught.
If he was French/Italian/Russian/anything else apart from Scottish I think that several opinions here may be different.
Who cares if Douche wants him in the team - Wiggo, Hoy, the delicious Victoria (who ranted massively over dinner about this tonight and caused our shepherd's pie to go cold), Coe, Redgrave to name but some all don't want him there.
If Britain does win gold with him in the team I personally feel that its letting down the Yossie sproglets .
But that's just me.0 -
It's interesting that this polarises views so much. Should a speeding driver be banned for life? A thief transported to the colonies? Haven't we moved on from a society in which there is NO redemption. Yes, it's not a simple issue. But surely that's an argument for not having a single solution? And with apologies to Yossie, maybe an active athlete is not the best (i.e. most impartial) of judges.0
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The irony of all this is, of course, they've got themselves to a level so as to be selected on merit without the need for drugs."There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."0
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It's a bit different for Chambers as the Olympics is the pinnacle of his discipline where as in Millar's case it's bit of a sideshow to the professional scene, certainly the non-track cycling events anyway. Which is funny really, he can race in all the much more prestigous one-day classics, tours etc. only to be told the olympics is a no go by the BOA. They've dug themselves bit of hole really.0
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It comes down to Rules is Rules. BOA can't make their own when signed up to the WADA Code (ok so BOA Rule was here first - but should have been revoked once the WADA code was agreed). And i think universal rules are in the interest of all sport and competition, the BOA should have lobbied to make a change to the WADA code, they went about it all wrong. So as 'Rules is Rules' of course David Millar should ride. Its the Rules.*
*PS I'm a big Millar Fan, interesting bloke, not like most of the robotic peloton.0 -
No - cheatin' lyin' slag. Ban him for life. Same as Chambers and the rest of them.
No difference between Millar and Ricco apart from Millar's advisers told him to act all repentant to win over public favour and Ricco is a tool. Bet he didn't give much of the book proceeds to the anti doping campaign either. Or charity. Or grass roots cycling. Or British Cycling. Well, any of it really. Straight into the offshore account, so no tax paid to help you guys either.
I don't hear anyone clamouring for Valverde's return and he actually didn't get caught if I remember rightly - just massively, massively implicated, although we all know he is a dopin' slag who should be banned for life as well.
Far too much blinkered jingoism going on here I think ........
I personally think that the Olympics are far above the average sporting event - ok, some of the actual events are not as strenuos/conducted to the same levels, but for pity's sake - its The Olympics (no excuse for capitalisation) - its things you dream of - stand on the podium in front of the world in your nation's colours, gold medal around your neck after a lifetimes graft, national anthem playing. It's an iconic historical moment. And you look to your left and there's a dopin' cheatin' slag dressed like a fool because he thinks he's a modern day Dandy. And a douche who couldn't even be bothered to have a shave when he met the Queen God Bless 'Er.
As the delicious Victoria said: "It's the bleedin Olympics - he's a slag. We don't want him there. And no, you can't have any more shepherd's pie. Its mine. Now bugger orf and stop looking at my norks".
Millar and Chambers being there? nah: ruined it for me I think.0 -
Did he not let you have your ball back when you were young or something Yossie.....
Mr Moore says it better than me - http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sun ... LY.twitter
(thanks iain from PR)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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Why this specific ban just for the olympics?
That won't deter people who aren't good enough for the olympics to cheat.
Either you ban them from everything, or you don't.
And anyway, if you start handing out lifetime bans, I'd imagine the prosecution rate, let alone the conviction rate, would be severely reduced - they'd all drag out for many, many years.0 -
ddraver wrote:Did he not let you have your ball back when you were young or something Yossie.....
Mr Moore says it better than me - http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sun ... LY.twitter
(thanks iain from PR)
Did he kiss you under the mistletoe DD? We think you love him.
No - he's a cheat,. I don't like cheats. He cheated and lied. End of.
He knew the rules when he broke them. End of.
Keep him and the rest of them banned.0 -
Why should sport be different from other walks of life? It's just sport. It's no more or less important than politics, or business, or whatever. And yet in sport a crime attracts a one strike and you're out mentality. They've done the time. Justice suggests that they should be allowed to be rehabilitated. This isn't a defence of what they did. It just seems to me to be too extreme to suggest that one conviction should always lead to a lifetime ban. (And, out of curiosity, in sport why does this one aspect of cheating arouse such passion? There are many other ways of cheating that don't get such draconian punishments and all cheating has one aim and one aim only: to gain advantage that your natural talent wouldn't otherwise give you.)0
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Absolutely. I think that anyone who dives in football, or appeals when they're not sure the batsman is out in cricket, should be banned for life, as they're all dirty stinking cheating ****** etc. In fact why just ban them? Just in case they change their identity and come back, I think they should all be shot.DrKJM wrote:And, out of curiosity, in sport why does this one aspect of cheating arouse such passion? There are many other ways of cheating that don't get such draconian punishments and all cheating has one aim and one aim only: to gain advantage that your natural talent wouldn't otherwise give you.)0 -
Cool - I'm going to start a get Ricco back into the sport campaign. I expect the apologists on this thread to sign up straightaway.
Can DD, Bompington etc please all send me a fiver to get the t shirts printed up? Pop them through to the doctor who looked after Millar's systematic cheating programme - he'll look after the funds in escrow for me. Or Davey's Monaco bank account, one of the two.
Who needs a clean sport anyway? Yeah, bring on the dopers. Sorry - ex dopers who are really, really, really sorry. And won't do it again.
Just think of the talent we could have out there: Bertie C, Landis, Ricco, Millar, Valverde. Everyone will be veritably rockin' along. Dopestrong can lead the peloton because he's as clean as driven snow.
Many apols to those with morales for wasting their time.0 -
You misrepresent my, and I suspect some others', views here. What I don't get is your absolutist approach to the problem which just doesn't fit with my life-view for sport or anything else. People make mistakes. We should, eventually, forgive them and move on. I take this view in the hope that when I make a mistake I too will be forgiven, so it's just self interest really.Yossie wrote:Cool - I'm going to start a get Ricco back into the sport campaign. I expect the apologists on this thread to sign up straightaway.0 -
You're a well-known and very, very obvious troll on this forum Yossie, but I'll answer anyway.Yossie wrote:Cool - I'm going to start a get Ricco back into the sport campaign. I expect the apologists on this thread to sign up straightaway.
I think that after serving a ban, all dopers should be allowed back. And of course watched, tested and suspected 24/7. And that includes Ricco - if he's only had one offence, of course. Oh, hang on....
So as DrKJM said, what you're doing is, rather too blatantly (come on now, surely it's more satisfying to troll a little bit more cleverly?) misrepresenting our views - I haven't heard anyone advocating that persistent, unrepentant dopers should be allowed back in. Yes, we all know it's impossible to tell how real the repentance is, but when you take words and actions together, you can get a bit of a clue can't you?0 -
With all due respect, I don't.
On one hand you say that you want a convicted (harsh term I know) doper back to represent his (our?) sport against the wishes of his team mates but at the same time you don't want other convuicted dopers back?
Surely Ricco etc al should also be forgiven much like Dopey slag? After all, they said sorry didn't they?
Nah - funk it: I'm with you on this one. Forgive them all, accept them back into the peloton and lets get some racin' goin'.
And anyway, once we have accepted the repentees back into the fold, we can probably negotiate reduced rates with Michele and Eufemiano as well for a bulk deal.
We could have Clinger back, Sinkewitz, Benucci: seriously guys, it would be, literally, full gas everywhere.
£5 payable to Yossie and the delicious Victoria please. All tshirts come with a free personalised speech of sorrow and repentance and souvenir EPO bottles.
Again, apologies for offending anyone with morales and wasting your time.0
