Sportive Safety

KentPuncheur

Ann Cakebread wrote:

I also hoped cyclists would sympathise with kids being encouraged to take up sport - sportives or otherwise - and if folk had the courtesy of a warning of the sportive they would try to take another route.

Sorry Ann but I still don't understand this!?! Are you suggesting that sportives should not occur in certain areas because we might (and I stress might) cause an inconvenience to people trying to take their children to a sporting event?! If so then I'm sorry but I don't have much sympathy with this argument. Inconvenience is a part of life unfortunately and I would suggest that there are many other more relevant reasons to re-route a sportive than this.

Also I think what we are forgetting here is that sportives are designed to take place in attractive rural areas for two main reasons. 1) The route itself is attractive and enjoyable in the countryside. Personally, I am more inspired to sign up to an event occuring in the Surrey Hills for example then I am to an event being staged in urban areas. 2) Rural attractive areas are generally (and there may be exceptions to the rule - especially if a childs sporting event is taking place!!!) less frequented by cars than urban areas, therefore it is safer to stage a mass participation event. Imagine the carnage of staging a sportive through busy built up urban areas!!

Lastly, your point:

Ann Cakebread wrote:

not taking over a beautiful area in huge numbers in a commercially run, profit-making event, thus destroying the very tranquillity of the area they are exploiting, and ignoring the needs of the folk who maintain the area.

You have conveniently missed out the point that these "commercially run, profit-making events" are also to the financial benefits of the areas they go through. Sportives pay a commission to certain bodies who run and maintain specific protected areas, such as the New Forest. In fact, these bodies actually advertise their areas to sportive event organisers, encouraging them to be used for their own financial benefit (not to say I disagree with this principle at all). You may be aware that the National Trust has recently royally upset sportive organisers for increasing the fees required to use Box Hill on a sportive route. If sportives are causing such a problem to the maintenance, sustainability and tranquility to areas, those areas are certainly receiving a financial benefit in compensation. You may have more of a valid argument if we were to quantify that financial benefit vs. the effects of staging the sportives, but I'm not is possession of the stats, and this doesn't appear to be your point anyway.

And apart from litter (which I have previously condemed), the odd and rare instances of road accidents, and isolated occasions of residents' and drivers' inconvenience (not forgetting those vital sporting events), I don't see that we are causing a huge blight on those areas. That's not to say more can't be done to raise awareness of safety and responsible cycling. But again, that doesn't appear to be your point either, you just want us out of the New Forest so that children can get to their sporting event on time (excuse that sentence if you will, it was for comic effect and I couldn't resist!).

NITR8s

I suppose the woman who decieded to drive down a singletrack road bleeping her horn constantly, while cyclistist were trying to climb a steep hill in single formation causing one cyclist to be pushed into the ditch/bush was ok because she was taking her kid to an equally important sporting event?

Did this woman join the forum just to make these posts?

Im sorry a cyclist has the same right on a road to someone in a car, the only problem is some cyclists belive they have more of a right and can go dangerous fast and some car drivers beleieve they have a right over the cyclist and force them off the road. Until both understand and respect the other problems will arise, unforuntatly this will never happen.

KentPuncheur

NITR8s wrote:

Im sorry a cyclist has the same right on a road to someone in a car, the only problem is some cyclists belive they have more of a right and can go dangerous fast and some car drivers beleieve they have a right over the cyclist and force them off the road.

On the nose. More consideration from all involved = no problem.

markos1963

I have to say I have been put off sportives to a certain extent by poor riding skills. My club often rides the Norwich100 as it generally covers most of our club rides and we always seem to end up with new riders who tag onto our various groups. Not normally a problem if they follow our lead but we often have problems with riders who break up the group with poor pacing or they constantly half wheel. Last year there was even a crash because someone was too busy fiddling with his bottle and not looking where he was going.
It would be a good move for organisers to give more information about group riding and general safety, unfortunately I think it's unlikely to happen. A lot of the organisers seem happy to make plenty of money from these events and anything that would eat into these profits or put them at perceived risk of liability would be resisted.

Ron Stuart

This like many threads has wondered a bit off the original track but brings up some interesting points.
I think that Ann is defeating some of her legitimate points by turning on Sportive entrants rather than those that ultimately organise and profit from these events in the New Forest. Many cyclists travel to the area and may well bring business in by B&B etc, Ann has some bona fide points to make re the numbers that take part bearing in mind the ability for the area to reasonably accommodate them on the road system and maybe some more thought should go into this along with the frequency of events.
Large mass events say over 300 should be confined to more sparsely populated areas and also not clash with other nearby events.
Wiggle it would seem have in the past targeted the area south of the M4 in particular and maybe because of the large catchment area find it more lucrative. They have studied and introduced events further north recently because it's seen as new business and maybe my area (Shropshire) is seen as less densely populated.
I remember doing a Polkadot Challenge in the Peak District on a hot day when half of Sheffield and Manchester it seemed wanted to go up or down Winnat's Pass (narrow 25%) in their cars at the same time as the riders we trying to go up, with some walking, the air was blue and my wife waiting at the top with fresh biddon witnessed one rider turn and kick a car in his anger! I did suggest to the organiser that going up a tourist trap might have been how shall we say: a conflict of interests.
So really Ann please direct your frustration at the people who are ultimately responsible not us plain old roadies who unlike a lot of the population we are trying to stay healthy and stay out of retail parks and shopping mails. Also a lot of the folk on bikes used to drive to work all the time but now ride to work leaving the roads less cluttered with cars.
Ann if you would like to put your point to someone who can do something about some of your concerns I can give you some contact details.
More consideration is the only way the population of this little overcrowded island will ever stand a chance of living along side each other in peace.

Ron Stuart

markos1963 wrote:

I have to say I have been put off sportives to a certain extent by poor riding skills. My club often rides the Norwich100 as it generally covers most of our club rides and we always seem to end up with new riders who tag onto our various groups. Not normally a problem if they follow our lead but we often have problems with riders who break up the group with poor pacing or they constantly half wheel. Last year there was even a crash because someone was too busy fiddling with his bottle and not looking where he was going.
It would be a good move for organisers to give more information about group riding and general safety, unfortunately I think it's unlikely to happen. A lot of the organisers seem happy to make plenty of money from these events and anything that would eat into these profits or put them at perceived risk of liability would be resisted.

Just a quick point about liability which is a good point. Well if an organiser were to be in court facing a liability claim then if he or she had been able to provide good and useful information to the entrants prior to the event regards safety then this would only be found in his or her favour.
Indeed it would be useful for British Cycling's guidance notes to have an appendix relating to just this safety issue and organisers could in their pre-event information make reference to this, along with Highway Code etc.

chipperleenie

I would imagine that 99.9% of sportive riders also drive cars, so shouldn't they already be fully aware of the Highway code?

As organisers, who follow the BC regulations, you have to provide a risk assessment of the route. I send out info to all riders of our sportive (not a big commercially run event, one run by club cyclists) to inform them of their responsibility for their own safety.

What is quite ironic, is that Ron Stuart rode my sportive last year AND he fell off! Apparently taken down by one of these rogue riders. :shock:

I am not sure there is a solution here. restricting field size could be one, so that there are not masses of riders blocking roads. There will always be crashes in cycling events. How many pro races are run without a single crash? My guess would be hardly any and if they are not experienced riders then who is?

chipperleenie

Here is a photo of some sportive cyclists.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/65271025@N06/5941122662/

All of them ignoring the highway code and riding on the wrong side of the road around a corner.

Someone on here might recognise the rider second in line! :oops:

mamba80

You want to live down here, Ann Cakebread - every Saturday Yogi CC go out with 3 large grps and play havoc on the roads, its even been on the local radio about it, check out their Photo gallery and you ll see what i mean!

Ron Stuart

chipperleenie wrote:

I would imagine that 99.9% of sportive riders also drive cars, so shouldn't they already be fully aware of the Highway code?

As organisers, who follow the BC regulations, you have to provide a risk assessment of the route. I send out info to all riders of our sportive (not a big commercially run event, one run by club cyclists) to inform them of their responsibility for their own safety.

What is quite ironic, is that Ron Stuart rode my sportive last year AND he fell off! Apparently taken down by one of these rogue riders. :shock:

I am not sure there is a solution here. restricting field size could be one, so that there are not masses of riders blocking roads. There will always be crashes in cycling events. How many pro races are run without a single crash? My guess would be hardly any and if they are not experienced riders then who is?

Dear oh dear :!: let’s deal with this blow by blow shall we?

1. You actually think that 100% of drivers are fully aware of the Highway Code? Some took their test over 50 years ago and haven't seen a Highway Code since. I took mine 44 years ago but have since seen a highway code.

2. Not interested in weasel worded cop-out clauses on this thread but useful safety advice of practical benefit so that the events are ridden in a safer manner than is current.

3. Yes I was taken out by some idiot on your event and crashed, not ironic sunshine, bloody unfortunate would be more accurate as I suffered with nerve damage to my knee for 5 months also cuts bruises and £600 quid damage to the bike. Its experiences like this that leads me to realise that there is more than a little room here for improvement with rider competence.
Oh, and I was considering doing your event again this year but!

4. It maybe the case that "There will always be crashes in cycling events." the point is would we like to reduce the number? The 'Sportive Industry' is very keen to parallel sportive events with 'what the pros do'. Naturally it has a financial benefit to the "Industry" but there should be a responsible attitude regards rider safety and respect towards other road users by all involved and it is time for key players to raise the bar and take that lead.
By the way you have missed by a country mile why pros crash whilst being experienced riders. The reason is plain and simple: 'They are paid to take risks' we are not paid and shouldn't need to take risks, it's their living and riding a Sportive isn't.

simon_e

Ron, these days there are too many dickhead drivers who obviously have no interest in what the Highway Code or their driving instructor advised, whether it was 5 or 50 years ago.

Herding together a large number of adrenaline & caffeine gel-fuelled MAMILs, with little or no experience of group riding, pretending they are in a race is likely to end in tears, or at the least cross words. Perhaps event organisers can make efforts to reduce the risks, but a lot of the people we're talking about think they're very grown up so don't like being told how to conduct themselves or that they could possibly improve their driving/riding.

Ron Stuart

Simon, as you may well know I have been on quite a few Midz Sunday Club Rides in the past and I have never witnessed any formal advice given out about ride etiquette, I haven't attended any of the track training sessions or helped Dave Nic with the youngsters so I don't know if any seasoned useful advice is given out there. The impression I got was that you learn by watching others or the hard way, it was certainly the case with Matt Armitage on one ride when we were riding in twos up a lane when the road started a rise then myself in second pair got out of the saddle and Matt behind me (directly) touch my wheel which had gone back as I got out of saddle, Matt ended up in the opposite verge in the nettles. Bit embarrassing but no major damage this time. I think he may have learnt about following the wheels to close and too in line, fortunately, no car coming opposite way that time. Matt was a classic case of someone who is "getting into cycling" who had done the right thing joined a local club but alas had to find out the hard way.
The whole tone of your post is negative and coming from an experienced club man I find it disappointing. The Midz as I have demonstrated before have a problem with communication some of which I have experienced at first hand, the club is great for youngsters but newbie’s at a more senior age don't even get a formal welcome letter/email or anything else. The greetings at the club runs are fine but some advice about dos and don’ts whilst on the ride could be put on the club website and when a newbie joins please respond with some sort of welcome and ask them to refer to the ride advice if they are inexperienced riding in a bunch.
Not rocket science and if we all do a bit it could get that little bit better, you never know it might even save someone’s life

RossW

mamba80 wrote:

You want to live down here, Ann Cake bread - every Saturday Yogi CC go out with 3 large grps and play havoc on the roads, its even been on the local radio about it, check out their Photo gallery and you ll see what i mean!

I guess it’s because it’s the biggest club in the southwest, obviously it’s going to attract new riders to the sport (which can only be a good thing?) unless we are all born with the skills to ride a bike we all have to start somewhere - and if a club with 400+ members has a percentage of new riders with skills that are less than perfect, so be it - where you perfect on your first couple of rides Mamba or have you always been an elitist? Didn’t think so... EVERY club will have riders of different skill sets etc...

I believe they have also been on the radio recently regarding the amazing work a few of them are doing to raise money for the William wates memorial trust by riding the entire TDF route. (http://www.bmycharity.com/teamyogi)

gazwagon

RossW wrote:

unless we are all born with the skills to ride a bike we all have to start somewhere

I agree with RossW, everybody has to start somewhere, its nice to see that so many posting are elite athletes, well done to you but what's the difference in going around a slower rider than someone walking ? I rode an event last week and saw someone zig zagging up a big climb in the wrong carriageway, well done for the effort but a tad foolish.

Not strictly a sportive but the Great Weston ride has a excellent help and advice section on the event website.http://www.greatwestonride.com/page13.htm. Perhaps other events and clubs could do something similar.

SportiveRater

Think a lot of these comments are a few peoples one off incidents that are being over generalised - given the numbr of events, riders and miles covered each year incidents are low.

However one thing that organisers could do perhaps is suggest riders go out with clubs as part of their "prep" so that riders do get a taste of group riding and learn a bit of roadcraft. I know my riding with others in sportives has dramatically improved since I joined a club.

mamba80

RossW wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

You want to live down here, Ann Cake bread - every Saturday Yogi CC go out with 3 large grps and play havoc on the roads, its even been on the local radio about it, check out their Photo gallery and you ll see what i mean!

I guess it’s because it’s the biggest club in the southwest, obviously it’s going to attract new riders to the sport (which can only be a good thing?) unless we are all born with the skills to ride a bike we all have to start somewhere - and if a club with 400+ members has a percentage of new riders with skills that are less than perfect, so be it - where you perfect on your first couple of rides Mamba or have you always been an elitist? Didn’t think so... EVERY club will have riders of different skill sets etc...

Very defensive arnt we?
400 + members? then do something with that income and start supporting new and younger riders.
how about Go-ride or if you cant do that, support clubs that do?
Slagging me off as this or that wont improve the situation will it?
Learn from your peers, look at what mdcc do or One and All - another new club, and see how they organise things, causing a rolling road block every Saturday doesnt do any cyclist or club in the area any good does it?
oh and yes i was born to ride as my dad was a high wire trapeze artist, specialising in uni-cycling, until his unfortunate demise when his seat post broke.

RossW

mamba80 wrote:

RossW wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

You want to live down here, Ann Cake bread - every Saturday Yogi CC go out with 3 large grps and play havoc on the roads, its even been on the local radio about it, check out their Photo gallery and you ll see what i mean!

I guess it’s because it’s the biggest club in the southwest, obviously it’s going to attract new riders to the sport (which can only be a good thing?) unless we are all born with the skills to ride a bike we all have to start somewhere - and if a club with 400+ members has a percentage of new riders with skills that are less than perfect, so be it - where you perfect on your first couple of rides Mamba or have you always been an elitist? Didn’t think so... EVERY club will have riders of different skill sets etc...

Very defensive arnt we?
400 + members? then do something with that income and start supporting new and younger riders.
how about Go-ride or if you cant do that, support clubs that do?
Slagging me off as this or that wont improve the situation will it?
Learn from your peers, look at what mdcc do or One and All - another new club, and see how they organise things, causing a rolling road block every Saturday doesnt do any cyclist or club in the area any good does it?
oh and yes i was born to ride as my dad was a high wire trapeze artist, specialising in uni-cycling, until his unfortunate demise when his seat post broke.

Not defensive, just seems like your original post was exceptional negative towards a club as a whole when it's made up of individuals which skills range from new riders to experienced riders. We all have to start some where and if it wasn't for this club I would never have got in to cycling.
As for putting back in to the community I believe the club are providing a large percentage of the ride leaders for sky ride and marshals (I'm marshalling, come say hi!)

Yea there maybe a lot of riders out on a Saturday.. But then isn't that what it's ment to be about? Enjoying your hobbie ? How are people ment to progress if even cyclists (you) are Against people learning and progress there skill set on there bike?

Obviously this is just my view, but then I may have a biased one because I ride with them... But without them id not have developed the skills i have and id certainly be more of a hazard on mass rides

paul2718

...got out of the saddle and Matt behind me (directly) touch my wheel which had gone back as I got out of saddle...

I thought that letting your bike go relatively backwards as you get out of the saddle in a group was considered a bit rude?

Paul

oldwelshman

Read the start of th thread but not all post so heres my twopenneth
I only do a couple of sportives but done big ones here and in Europe.
The standard of riding in Europe is far higher than in UK, probably due to more experienced riders and less wanabees
I don't think I have managed to ride one sportive anywhere in a group for whole ride but obviously rode with groups at some pointbut to be honest I have seen some groups and been happy to ride with for a while and others you can see that its too risky and ride on. Seems in UK theres a lot of people who just want to get fast times so stick in a group even though not used to it.
As for riders passing through fast in tight situation, yes that happens but it does in races also and has to be expected in mixed ability events.
My suggestions won't be the most popular but pretty sure they may have impact on safety , well IMO anyway
1) Seed riders on ability and start them in groups fastest to slowest, this would alliviate the issue of big difference ability riders on the course same time. Yes I know there are some groups who want to ride as friend and start together, if this is the case ride seeded on slowest riders ability.
2) Heres the best one, don't give times Probably unpopular idea but at the end of the day if theres no time given and published you would reduce henumber of red light jumping and fighting at feedstations. Just enjoy the ride for the challenge of completing the route. If your that competative can always use Garmin to record time anyway which takes into account stoppages for feeds, lights etc so you will have your route time, just not able to compare to others , but this should not be issue as its not a race. If really want to be competative then do actual races.

The european ones I have done obviously have timing and are actually run more as races compared to UK but seem to have less safety issues.

With the way racing is going in UK , less races and more riders enterring think you may get more racing guys actually doing sportives

mamba80

RossW: you need to re read my post, in which i suggested you spend the some of the clubs considerable funds (10k SportEngland and on going membership, 4k this year alone) on improving the 400+ members riding skills, which you have acknowledged cover a wide range of abilities.
these funds, plus 400+ members, should enable you to really put back into cycling.....nothing so far!

Three groups (in any club) of 30 to 60 riders each, is going to cause friction between cyclists and other road users, especially as some are struggling with grp riding.

Providing a few Sky ride marshalls, isnt really "putting back" into cycling is it? nor will it improve sportive safety or raise stds of riding - which is after all, the original post.
For example, there is a BC Go-Ride event (for 8 to 14yo) this Sunday at the George park an ride, which has been advertised on many local club websites, all clubs were sent details.
Will you be supporting this event?

jimmythecuckoo

Getting back to the original point...

I think that the standard of riding isn't as good in a sportive as it once was. But as a rider with 20 years experience of riding in a group should I drop back and chug along behind them for safety or get in the middle and try and 'guide' people appropriately in how we can work together most effectively?

KentPuncheur

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

But as a rider with 20 years experience of riding in a group should I drop back and chug along behind them for safety or get in the middle and try and 'guide' people appropriately in how we can work together most effectively?

The problem with this is people's varying attitudes. As a relatively inexperienced cyclist, I accept that I still have a lot to learn, therefore I rely on advice from experienced club members to guide me, pointing out my mistakes (how else will I learn?). If I was posing a danger to others in a group (unknowingly of course), I'd like to be pointed out on those mistakes so that I can learn from the experience.

On the other hand, others may not receive such advice graciously, and what you may see as erroneous group riding may be perpetrated by an experienced cyclist and I doubt that type of rider would take advice well from a stranger!

One option, and just a thought here off the top of my head, could be to group inexperienced riders with a couple of seasoned riders so that they can guide them during the route (or at least for the start of it). Or to be more practical, encourage sportive entrants to go on a couple of club runs first. It instantly improved my riding, and continues to do so.

chipperleenie

Ron Stuart wrote:

chipperleenie wrote:

I would imagine that 99.9% of sportive riders also drive cars, so shouldn't they already be fully aware of the Highway code?

As organisers, who follow the BC regulations, you have to provide a risk assessment of the route. I send out info to all riders of our sportive (not a big commercially run event, one run by club cyclists) to inform them of their responsibility for their own safety.

What is quite ironic, is that Ron Stuart rode my sportive last year AND he fell off! Apparently taken down by one of these rogue riders. :shock:

I am not sure there is a solution here. restricting field size could be one, so that there are not masses of riders blocking roads. There will always be crashes in cycling events. How many pro races are run without a single crash? My guess would be hardly any and if they are not experienced riders then who is?

Dear oh dear :!: let’s deal with this blow by blow shall we?

1. You actually think that 100% of drivers are fully aware of the Highway Code? Some took their test over 50 years ago and haven't seen a Highway Code since. I took mine 44 years ago but have since seen a highway code.
Read it again Ron - the word should and a question mark at the end!

2. Not interested in weasel worded cop-out clauses on this thread but useful safety advice of practical benefit so that the events are ridden in a safer manner than is current.
Weasel worded? If you read it maybe you wouldn't have been spotted riding on the wrong side of the road around a right hand corner?

3. Yes I was taken out by some idiot on your event and crashed, not ironic sunshine, bloody unfortunate would be more accurate as I suffered with nerve damage to my knee for 5 months also cuts bruises and £600 quid damage to the bike. Its experiences like this that leads me to realise that there is more than a little room here for improvement with rider competence.
Oh, and I was considering doing your event again this year but!
But what?

4. It maybe the case that "There will always be crashes in cycling events." the point is would we like to reduce the number? The 'Sportive Industry' is very keen to parallel sportive events with 'what the pros do'. Naturally it has a financial benefit to the "Industry" but there should be a responsible attitude regards rider safety and respect towards other road users by all involved and it is time for key players to raise the bar and take that lead.
By the way you have missed by a country mile why pros crash whilst being experienced riders. The reason is plain and simple: 'They are paid to take risks' we are not paid and shouldn't need to take risks, it's their living and riding a Sportive isn't.

True, they are paid and probably take more risks, so maybe a bad comparison. See other bold text above in reply to your blow by blow attack

How do you think organisers could make riders ride more safely? It is not like a road race, where you have 2 commissaires and 3 cars with a bunch of riders so you can stop and warn riders of unsafe riding as often happens. The Wally Gimber road race was stopped and several top level riders disqualified this year (and re-instated within a few minutes)

As an organiser, we highlight areas of concern to riders. Every group of 15 riders is briefed before the event and we select a route that is on very quiet roads to reduce the risk of accidents with vehicles purely by the fact that there won't be many on the roads we use. In case of issues on the course all riders have a contact number to ring for a support vehicle. What else can organisers do?

I would love to hear some positive suggestions from you Ron rather than all your negative rants and finger pointing. :evil:

Stedman

chipperleenie wrote:

How do you think organisers could make riders ride more safely? It is not like a road race, where you have 2 commissaires and 3 cars with a bunch of riders so you can stop and warn riders of unsafe riding as often happens.

Chipperleenie,
Simple, impose a maximum speed band as they do in audax!

Anne S.

I think that for many people the appeal of this type of event is that it does attract riders of all levels, abilities and ages. Due to this there will always be a lack of group riding skills - not everyone belongs to a club, nor do they wish to. Publishing a few guidelines with the sportive rider info could do no harm and may well be welcomed by novice riders. It would also ensure that novices are attracted to cycling rather than being put off- this was how I got into cycling for enjoyment. I now belong to a club but the sportive was where I started.

Ron Stuart

chipperleenie wrote:

Ron Stuart wrote:

chipperleenie wrote:

I would imagine that 99.9% of sportive riders also drive cars, so shouldn't they already be fully aware of the Highway code?

As organisers, who follow the BC regulations, you have to provide a risk assessment of the route. I send out info to all riders of our sportive (not a big commercially run event, one run by club cyclists) to inform them of their responsibility for their own safety.

What is quite ironic, is that Ron Stuart rode my sportive last year AND he fell off! Apparently taken down by one of these rogue riders. :shock:

I am not sure there is a solution here. restricting field size could be one, so that there are not masses of riders blocking roads. There will always be crashes in cycling events. How many pro races are run without a single crash? My guess would be hardly any and if they are not experienced riders then who is?

Dear oh dear :!: let’s deal with this blow by blow shall we?

1. You actually think that 100% of drivers are fully aware of the Highway Code? Some took their test over 50 years ago and haven't seen a Highway Code since. I took mine 44 years ago but have since seen a highway code.
Read it again Ron - the word should and a question mark at the end!

2. Not interested in weasel worded cop-out clauses on this thread but useful safety advice of practical benefit so that the events are ridden in a safer manner than is current.
Weasel worded? If you read it maybe you wouldn't have been spotted riding on the wrong side of the road around a right hand corner?

3. Yes I was taken out by some idiot on your event and crashed, not ironic sunshine, bloody unfortunate would be more accurate as I suffered with nerve damage to my knee for 5 months also cuts bruises and £600 quid damage to the bike. Its experiences like this that leads me to realise that there is more than a little room here for improvement with rider competence.
Oh, and I was considering doing your event again this year but!
But what?

4. It maybe the case that "There will always be crashes in cycling events." the point is would we like to reduce the number? The 'Sportive Industry' is very keen to parallel sportive events with 'what the pros do'. Naturally it has a financial benefit to the "Industry" but there should be a responsible attitude regards rider safety and respect towards other road users by all involved and it is time for key players to raise the bar and take that lead.
By the way you have missed by a country mile why pros crash whilst being experienced riders. The reason is plain and simple: 'They are paid to take risks' we are not paid and shouldn't need to take risks, it's their living and riding a Sportive isn't.

True, they are paid and probably take more risks, so maybe a bad comparison. See other bold text above in reply to your blow by blow attack

How do you think organisers could make riders ride more safely? It is not like a road race, where you have 2 commissaires and 3 cars with a bunch of riders so you can stop and warn riders of unsafe riding as often happens. The Wally Gimber road race was stopped and several top level riders disqualified this year (and re-instated within a few minutes)

As an organiser, we highlight areas of concern to riders. Every group of 15 riders is briefed before the event and we select a route that is on very quiet roads to reduce the risk of accidents with vehicles purely by the fact that there won't be many on the roads we use. In case of issues on the course all riders have a contact number to ring for a support vehicle. What else can organisers do?

I would love to hear some positive suggestions from you Ron rather than all your negative rants and finger pointing. :evil:

Some sportive riders may need some help staying safe but my friend me thinks you need a different kind of help, the sort that requires laying on a couch being asked key questions and taking in some professional advice. :roll:

TKF

Ron Stuart wrote:

Nothing about watching wheels, what happens to the bike in front when the rider gets out of the saddle, if you have to single-out because of a vehicle do you go in front of the neighbouring bike, etc, etc.

I have no idea what to do in those circumstances. I am a new rider who is going on a little ride from London to Brighton with 27,999 close friends...

I've ridden in a group once on a club intro ride. I won't be doing it again a) because I can't spare the time but mainly, b) they were the most arrogant bunch of militant cyclists that I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. They certainly didn't give any advice about group riding.

So where would I find advice about riding in a Sportive?

Ron Stuart

TKF wrote:

Ron Stuart wrote:

Nothing about watching wheels, what happens to the bike in front when the rider gets out of the saddle, if you have to single-out because of a vehicle do you go in front of the neighbouring bike, etc, etc.

I have no idea what to do in those circumstances. I am a new rider who is going on a little ride from London to Brighton with 27,999 close friends...

I've ridden in a group once on a club intro ride. I won't be doing it again a) because I can't spare the time but mainly, b) they were the most arrogant bunch of militant cyclists that I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. They certainly didn't give any advice about group riding.

So where would I find advice about riding in a Sportive?

TKF,
Sounds like you are exactly the person I have in mind, someone who maybe is attracted to try an event by smart advertising or joining in a club run alongside others but finds it all a bit much.
Don't get me wrong as I got my cycling bug by 'joining in', originally on the police run Wolverhampton to Aberdovey Charity Bike Ride. Fortunately when it comes to sport I am a quick learner and by asking questions soon got to grips with the basics and found the buzz great, riding with others and having some riders taking the wind (riding on the front) which made progress that much easier.
Cycling is a great way of keeping healthy and enjoying the countryside around us and it can be done in many forms also great, don't be put off.
My original post was aimed towards those organisations that have the mass contact to try and give exactly people like you some basic road craft guidance based on what is general accepted as mass or group ride etiquette. Organisations such as British Cycling (the clue is in the name), Cycling Clubs, Cycling Periodicals, Mass cycling event organisers and the like.
I have contacted 12 of them on the 26th of April and have had two responses so far, one from Jeff Jones (Cycling Plus) and another from Alan at Justracing. Jeff said they would attempt to add something on the subject in their sportive advice articles in the future and Alan was very keen, so much so that he wanted me to sort something out for him.
Oh! one very disappointing response above on this thread.
Regards advice to ride a sportive, one poster gave this link http://www.greatwestonride.com/page13.htm I did note that some of it comes from the United States this maybe because they are at the coal face of the suing culture and litigation processes, a process that has taken on over here at an alarming rate be warned.
My original post was aimed towards those organisations that have the mass contact to try and give exactly people like you some basic road craft guidance based on what is general accepted as mass or group ride etiquette. Organisations such as British Cycling (the clue is in the name), Cycling Clubs, Cycling Periodicals, Mass cycling event organisers and the like.
I have contacted 12 of them on the 26th of April and have had two responses so far, one from Jeff Jones (Cycling Plus) and another from Alan at Justracing. Jeff said they would attempt to add something on the subject in their sportive advice articles in the future and Alan was very keen, so much so that he wanted me to sort something out for him.
Oh! And one very disappointing response above on this thread.
Regards advice to ride a sportive, one poster gave this link http://www.greatwestonride.com/page13.htm I did note that some of it comes from the United States this maybe because they are at the coal face of the suing culture and litigation processes, a process that has taken on over here at an alarming rate be warned.

secretsqizz

TKF wrote:

Ron Stuart wrote:

Nothing about watching wheels, what happens to the bike in front when the rider gets out of the saddle, if you have to single-out because of a vehicle do you go in front of the neighbouring bike, etc, etc.

I have no idea what to do in those circumstances. I am a new rider who is going on a little ride from London to Brighton with 27,999 close friends...

I've ridden in a group once on a club intro ride. I won't be doing it again a) because I can't spare the time but mainly, b) they were the most arrogant bunch of militant cyclists that I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. They certainly didn't give any advice about group riding.

So where would I find advice about riding in a Sportive?

Just to lighten the mood... that was a critical mass , TKF, steer well clear
and London to Brighton, have heard most people walk it....

ps, you always name and shame the club, if you are so inclined.. it'll give 'em a chance right to reply...

brettjmcc

chipperleenie wrote:

I would imagine that 99.9% of sportive riders also drive cars, so shouldn't they already be fully aware of the Highway code?

Judging by a lot of road users I see, then I would actively discourage them to ever get on a bike. Apparently breaking the speed limit, not using indicators and pulling out in front of cars on round-a-bouts because they need to get somewhere has been written in...

As back to the another point on hills, whilst not quite sportives, other organised rides get on my wick. People who go out and ride, which is fair enough... but don't go 3 or 4 abreast on a hill gently riding up chatting to your mates!