Formula One in Bahrain.

rick_chasey

Given it's Friday..

Anyone think it was the right decision to go?

EKE_38BPM

No, but Bernie loves the money, so won't change his mind. The teams should, en masse, pack up and go home.
This won't happen because Bernie would fine them. Win-win for Bernie really.

Hoopdriver

EKE_38BPM wrote:

No, but Bernie loves the money, so won't change his mind. The teams should, en masse, pack up and go home.
This won't happen because Bernie would fine them. Win-win for Bernie really.

+1 Exactly

Jez mon

I think it may well be beneficial for the population of Bahrain in the long term that their country is in the press again, perhaps.

It's a complex issue, talking to a family member who is a expat in the middle east, and knows several Bahrainis what has happened in Bahrain is pretty terrible. However, for whatever reason, the media in this coverage hasn't paid a lot of attention to it in comparison to some of the other uprisings in the middle east. The F1 going back, has got the issue in the media again surely this is positive?

rick_chasey

Jez mon wrote:

I think it may well be beneficial for the population of Bahrain in the long term that their country is in the press again, perhaps.

t's a complex issue, talking to a family member who is a expat in the middle east, and knows several Bahrainis what has happened in Bahrain is pretty terrible. However, for whatever reason, the media in this coverage hasn't paid a lot of attention to it in comparison to some of the other uprisings in the middle east. The F1 going back, has got the issue in the media again surely this is positive?

I think sky news described it as "someone else's squabble" an hour or so ago....

Jez mon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I think it may well be beneficial for the population of Bahrain in the long term that their country is in the press again, perhaps.

t's a complex issue, talking to a family member who is a expat in the middle east, and knows several Bahrainis what has happened in Bahrain is pretty terrible. However, for whatever reason, the media in this coverage hasn't paid a lot of attention to it in comparison to some of the other uprisings in the middle east. The F1 going back, has got the issue in the media again surely this is positive?

I think sky news described it as "someone else's squabble" an hour or so ago....

Never watched Sky News tbh.

Have they described the rest of the Arab Spring like that?

bonkstrong

I heard Bernie on the radio t'other night and his response to the should they go question was... "We are not a politically aligned force, we are a sport. We should be able to come here, put on a show and leave. It is not our responsibilty to sort out political problems between nations" - he does kinda have a point...

mattwood

Anyone else see the statement from Sauber F1 ont he live text?

Seems they too got caught up in protests near the circuit.

Bernie and the FIA have dropped the ball here, and I can only see this detracting from the image/reputation of F1 on the whole?

notsoblue

mattwood wrote:

Bernie and the FIA have dropped the ball here, and I can only see this detracting from the image/reputation of F1 on the whole?

You mean the reputation that F1 has as been a grass roots, sport of the people?

mattwood

Not as such no - as thats all kack anyhow.

More the not providing a political platform/taking sides thing?

rick_chasey

BONKSTRONG wrote:

I heard Bernie on the radio t'other night and his response to the should they go question was... "We are not a politically aligned force, we are a sport. We should be able to come here, put on a show and leave. It is not our responsibilty to sort out political problems between nations" - he does kinda have a point...

The lot that are paying for it though are making a political gesture out of it.

Like it or not, the F1 has got political.

Given that the lot who are paying for it have also been accused of human rights abuses....

They could easily say they don't want to go on the same grounds as last year.

I did hear somewhere that Bahrain pay more than most to host, and that I think an investment vehicle for the leaders' cash has a 50% stake in McLaren, though that might be me talking bull.

bompington

Rick Chasey wrote:

I think sky news described it as "someone else's squabble" an hour or so ago....

Maybe relevant to point out for those who didn't know - this echoes, possibly deliberately, Chamberlain's comment about the Germans invading Czechoslovakia before the second world war : "a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing".

Just before flying off to get that nice Mr Hitler's assurance that he was only going to invade a little bit of Czechoslovakia and after that he wouldn't invade anyone else.

mattwood

Rick Chasey wrote:

I did hear somewhere that Bahrain pay more than most to host, and that I think an investment vehicle for the leaders' cash has a 50% stake in McLaren, though that might be me talking bull.

IIRC, thats entirely correct. And I seem to remember that they may have a smaller stake in another team(s) - that bit might not be 100% accurate though?

Jez mon

bompington wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I think sky news described it as "someone else's squabble" an hour or so ago....

Maybe relevant to point out for those who didn't know - this echoes, possibly deliberately, Chamberlain's comment about the Germans invading Czechoslovakia before the second world war : "a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing".

Just before flying off to get that nice Mr Hitler's assurance that he was only going to invade a little bit of Czechoslovakia and after that he wouldn't invade anyone else.

Is that Godwins law already?

Fairly sure Rick is correct wrt McLaren.

The F1 race going ahead might be trying to send the message that everything is OK, but who actually believes that message?

rick_chasey

Jez mon wrote:

The F1 race going ahead might be trying to send the message that everything is OK, but who actually believes that message?

If that's the case, it's backfired.

bompington

Jez mon wrote:

Is that Godwins law already?

I think that comparing Bernie to Adolf is possibly a bit unfair on the Fuhrer ;-)

TheStone

I don't see what it's got to do with F1.

Aren't we still selling Bahrain weapons? Do BA still fly there?

Why then is it the responsibility of Bernie to make a stand? His job is to organise some rich kids to drive around a track in a really boring manner. Nothing else.

Reminds me of the cricketers going to Zimbabwe.

Weak politicians as ever.

rick_chasey

TheStone wrote:

Why then is it the responsibility of Bernie to make a stand? His job is to organise some rich kids to drive around a track in a really boring manner. Nothing else.

.

The incumbent gov't is using the formula one as political tool. In this case to say to the world how amazing Bahrain is, how civilised it all is etc.

There are a number of people there who don't agree, and are protesting. They feel that things are not OK, and feel, rightly or wrongly, that F1 is in some way supporting the current regime.

AFAIK, the race is paid for directly by the regime.

It will be even worse if there start being violent clashes between protesters protesting against the Formula one and the police/army. Then the F1 will be seen as the cause of more unrest.

greg66_tri_v2.0

TheStone wrote:

I don't see what it's got to do with F1.

Aren't we still selling Bahrain weapons? Do BA still fly there?

Why then is it the responsibility of Bernie to make a stand? His job is to organise some rich kids to drive around a track in a really boring manner. Nothing else.

Reminds me of the cricketers going to Zimbabwe.

Weak politicians as ever.

Agreed. Much like the Moscow Olympics. There was nothing any Govt could do about Russia's invasion of Afghanistan, so the Govts put pressure on athletes to do the work for them.

The BBC wrote:

Labour leader Ed Miliband has said the Grand Prix in Bahrain should not go ahead, amid continuing protests against the government.

Mr Miliband said the race should be stopped "in the light of human rights abuses" and the UK government should "make its view clear".

Nice to see "Mr. Bandwagon" piping up.

I don't seem to recall him saying much about the Chinese GP last week. Did I miss that?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Rick Chasey wrote:

It will be even worse if there start being violent clashes between protesters protesting against the Formula one and the police/army. Then the F1 will be seen as the cause of more unrest.

Catalyst, not cause.

You can't really doubt that the protesters are taking advantage of F1 being in town. The world's media puts its focus on Bahrain, and they up their game accordingly. Had the race been called off, this would have been a weekend of protest like any other in Bahrain, largely unnoticed and unreported in the West.

rick_chasey

Greg66 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It will be even worse if there start being violent clashes between protesters protesting against the Formula one and the police/army. Then the F1 will be seen as the cause of more unrest.

Catalyst, not cause.

You can't really doubt that the protesters are taking advantage of F1 being in town. The world's media puts its focus on Bahrain, and they up their game accordingly. Had the race been called off, this would have been a weekend of protest like any other in Bahrain, largely unnoticed and unreported in the West.

The issue is political because the current regime are staking so much on hosting the F1. That's why it's political.

It's not a 3rd party that is totally unrelated. The regime who people are protesting against wants and has paid for the F1 to come.

mattwood

Actually, it has been reported that the anti-government groups have planned 'three days of rage' to coincide with the F1 being in town with the protests to be held at or near the Sahir International Circuit.

I'd say that might make it reasonable to suggest the F1 is a cause of more unrest?

rick_chasey

mattwood wrote:

Actually, it has been reported that the anti-government groups have planned 'three days of rage' to coincide with the F1 being in town with the protests to be held at or near the Sahir International Circuit.

I'd say that might make it reasonable to suggest the F1 is a cause of more unrest?

Quite.

More being the operative word.

greg66_tri_v2.0

mattwood wrote:

Actually, it has been reported that the anti-government groups have planned 'three days of rage' to coincide with the F1 being in town with the protests to be held at or near the Sahir International Circuit.

I'd say that might make it reasonable to suggest the F1 is a cause of more unrest?

BBC News also wrote:

The 14 February Youth Movement has called for "three days of rage" to coincide with the Grand Prix, while the main Shia opposition group, al-Wefaq, has called for protests.

"The protest is having international impact because there are foreign journalists here for F1. Once they leave, the repression will continue but the world won't hear about it," activist Nabeel Rajab told the BBC. "The government will [seek] revenge on the people once the journalists and F1 have left"

As I said, catalyst, not cause. The event is being exploited by both sides in different ways, for different reasons.

rick_chasey

So where do you stand on the issue Gregg?

rick_chasey

Just saw this tweet from James Allen:

Crown Prince and Bernie Ecclestone just did a press briefing and CP said that to cancel the F1 race would just empower extremists.

.

Seems quite clear what side Bernie's taken!

mattwood

I think we are all making the same point - being Friday, I missed the cause/catalyst thing.

A cause is: A person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.
A catalyst (in this sense) is: A person or thing that precipitates an event.

which is arguably the same thing.

Back on topic - they still should have called it off

greg66_tri_v2.0

Rick Chasey wrote:

So where do you stand on the issue Gregg?

Greg66 wrote:

TheStone wrote:

I don't see what it's got to do with F1.

Aren't we still selling Bahrain weapons? Do BA still fly there?

Why then is it the responsibility of Bernie to make a stand? His job is to organise some rich kids to drive around a track in a really boring manner. Nothing else.

Reminds me of the cricketers going to Zimbabwe.

Weak politicians as ever.

Agreed. Much like the Moscow Olympics. There was nothing any Govt could do about Russia's invasion of Afghanistan, so the Govts put pressure on athletes to do the work for them.

Did reading comprehension skills around here drop off a cliff while I was on holiday? Or is it just because it is Friday?

rick_chasey

I meant more, do you think they should have gone or not?

All you've said is that you don't know what the protests have to do with F1 - only later saying that they're a catalyst - which presumably means they are SOMETHING to do with it?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Oh, FFS! THE BAHRAIN GRAND PRIX SHOULD GO AHEAD.

Clear enough?

SimonAH

At the end of the day Bahrain is not behaving well. To reward that behaviour is not good.

Bernie should listen to his concience and pull out.......oh wait.