Wheel Choice: Lightweight vs Aero
CakeLovinBeast
Posts: 312
I suspect that I know the answer, but I'd just like to confirm what I think I know...
I'm a relatively new 4th Cat. First season riding, comfortable in the bunch but not really competing for points at the minute. So far everything I've raced has been crits, though I do have my eye on some road racing soon. I'm also on the heavier side, at 6'1" and 90Kg. I'm not looking at new wheels/kit as a quick fix, but I'm looking at upgrades made in conjunction with training that will hopefully help in the long term. As I can't afford a spangly new carbon race bike, I'm looking to upgrade parts of my current bike (Cube Attempt) with a view to then buying a new frame later and having better components to transfer across.
With that in mind, my first prospective purchase is some new race/best wheels. Currently I've got Fulcrum 7's, which are perfectly fine, but aren't the lightest in the world. What are the prospective merits of lightweight versus aero wheels? Everything I've read seems to suggest that aero come into play more at higher speeds, but given that most of my racing is on relatively fast circuits, that might make most sense. There are wheels like the Planet X carbon 50's which fit the bill and budget (up to ~£450, maybe a little more), though they don't offer any real weight saving. Alternatively, I could go for something like a Shimano RS80 C24, or Ksyrium Elite, which will give me 300g+ of weight loss, but no aero benefits.
Any advice/pointers that could be provided would be appreciated.
I'm a relatively new 4th Cat. First season riding, comfortable in the bunch but not really competing for points at the minute. So far everything I've raced has been crits, though I do have my eye on some road racing soon. I'm also on the heavier side, at 6'1" and 90Kg. I'm not looking at new wheels/kit as a quick fix, but I'm looking at upgrades made in conjunction with training that will hopefully help in the long term. As I can't afford a spangly new carbon race bike, I'm looking to upgrade parts of my current bike (Cube Attempt) with a view to then buying a new frame later and having better components to transfer across.
With that in mind, my first prospective purchase is some new race/best wheels. Currently I've got Fulcrum 7's, which are perfectly fine, but aren't the lightest in the world. What are the prospective merits of lightweight versus aero wheels? Everything I've read seems to suggest that aero come into play more at higher speeds, but given that most of my racing is on relatively fast circuits, that might make most sense. There are wheels like the Planet X carbon 50's which fit the bill and budget (up to ~£450, maybe a little more), though they don't offer any real weight saving. Alternatively, I could go for something like a Shimano RS80 C24, or Ksyrium Elite, which will give me 300g+ of weight loss, but no aero benefits.
Any advice/pointers that could be provided would be appreciated.
Twitter: @FunkyMrMagic
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They are very...distinctive though.
Personally i quite like the look of them, even on this specialized.
Tredz had a set of the white ones for £370 a little while back, gutted I didnt pick them up.
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I've done a fair few thousand miles on my set, raced them, trained on them, this that and the other, they great. AND if you do crash then they're quite tough, whereas maybe if I crashed on my zipps they might crack etc.
I do ride 404's for road races though, but I'm sure the difference wouldn't be massive if I used the mavics, when you're sat in a pack of people then aero wheels are probably not such a concern.
Strava - Alex Taylor (sportstest.co.uk)
ABCC Cycling Coach
a). They're slightly over budget. And;
b). I'm right on the edge of what they recommend as the max rider weight for them! I'm sure I'd probably cry if I broke them because I was too fat. At the minute I'm up and down between 88 - 92 kilos depending on how much willpower I have.
I don't object too much to tryin to save a bit more: I'd seem some potential wheel sets around the £6-700 mark, but it just strikes me as a bit daft on a £1k bike. Sure, I'll be able to move them to whatever new bike I move onto down the line, but something just doesn't sit well with me. I'm a 4th cat, at the end of the day!
Ben, I actually like those American Classics too... Both colour schemes would work with my frame, too. Thanks for adding something else into the mix!
Ultimately, I should probably just MTFU and train harder, and stop looking for excuses... Thanks for all of the input so far.
I've had wheels ranging from bottom to top end, the Ksyrium elites are the best wheel/£ out there IMO. Light enough, well made, stiff as fook (very important for the more robust rider) and look good!
Strava - Alex Taylor (sportstest.co.uk)
ABCC Cycling Coach
For me, I'd rather go for light semi-deep rimmed wheels. I don't fancy road racing on deep rims and that will be the bulk of my racing, time trials will be limited to a couple of opens and my club events. If the RS80s are more expensive when they come back into stock then I'm thinking of getting some Pro-Lite Braccianos, they seem very light and the reviews I've read have been positive so I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with experience of them. I currently run a R500 on the front and Aksium Race on the rear with heavy training tyres and tubes so hoping the new wheels with Pro Race 3s and light tubes will take around 500g off the wheel weight.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
Plus - last time I helped run a RR (a 2/3/4) the guy who won it was on what looked like old school no-name 32 spoke alu rimmed wheels from 1985... And he was in a 2 up break for basically the whole race... Made me think twice, then again, about whether bling kit was necessary!!!!
t' blog: http://meandthemountain.wordpress.com/
1 - Light, stiff, non-aero: Ksyrium Elite or similar.
2 - Light(er), not too-aero: American Classic, RS80 C24's, or similar.
3 - Light, stiff, aero, but potentially breakable (at my weight): Planet X R50.
4 - Light(er), stiff(er), aero, unknown quantity: eBay Chinese carbon wheels.
5 - Very light, very stiff, aero, probably breakable, out of budget: Zipps, FFWD, Cosmic's, etc
6 - Same weight, same stiffness, same aero: MTFU, train better and use the money on buying better food so you're not so fat.
With the exception of option 5, which is unobtainable, any of those could produce benefits. They could equally produce nothing (though that is less likely for option 6, at least). The little voice in the back of my head is telling me to save my money again - do I really NEED any of these wheels? At a higher category, or if I was challenging for points, then there could be some (albeit not a lot) of justification. Realistically, anything I get is going to look nice and might have a psychological effect, but any performance benefits are likely going to be negligible.
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For bunch racing, I race on a 2kg wheelset (RR450 powertap and Fulcrum R5). Last 3 results at Hillingdon for me is 1st, 4th and 2nd from breaks as I'm not much of a sprinter. Would I have had an aero advantage when finishing 4th/2nd? Yes. Would it have made a difference to the results? Nope. Do the bunch chase down quicker a bike all blinged out? In my experience, certainly. That results in more time riding in the bunch, less chance of success, and an increased chance of some knob denting my wallet for hundreds of pounds and leaving me with a nightmare of a journey home.
To answer the OP's question. Aero everytime, unless windy.
Definitely avoid anything with a weight limit. At your weight and price range carbon is out IMO. I imagine you could get some very nice handbuilts for £450.
They are super smooth, super stiff where it counts, have great compliance vertically so that they feel comfortable, appear to be very strong (perfectly true even after a few unavoidable potholes) and come in at a very respectable weight.
The option below them is the Campag Neturons, which fall within your budget. These are very similar in weight and build quality but don't have a carbon fiber hub. I have read in a lot of places that these are said to be some of the best bang for buck wheels out there and it was only a great offer that made me go up to the ultras. Another option is the Campag Zondas(around £350 currently) with 24mm front and 30mm rear rim depths and are around 1550grams. You can get 2-way fit for tubeless if you want to as well.
BTW, I changed from the Mavic Askiums that came with the stock boardman and run 105 on it currently.
It's that dream that basically keeps me from spending my money :-D
t' blog: http://meandthemountain.wordpress.com/
I didn't want to risk smashing up my Zipps in a chipper race. After that decision I sold them...
Strava - Alex Taylor (sportstest.co.uk)
ABCC Cycling Coach
Dont spend your money yet. Ive got rs80, kysrium sl, cosmic carbone and ffwd f6r's wheels you can try. I'm in Kingsteignton tonight or at club tomorrow morning and can give you any set of them apart from the ffwd as im using them tomorrow.
Jim
I wouldn't worry about a blingy carbon bike either, handling is the most important thing, and you WILL crash at some point.
If you go to Belgium you'll see many amateurs riding alloy, even steel, bikes, and ordinary spoked wheels - and the racing is much, much faster than the UK!
Look at the planet X carbon R50 rims (or complete wheels). I think they're a damn good deal for the price and absolute feathers
EDIT: I didn't notice that they did the rims by themselves... Given that you know more about handbuilts than me, do you think it would be possible to buy the rims and get them built up to be slightly stronger, for a sturdier rider?
Although I love the feel of my RS80's (and have been impressed by how trouble free they have been) I wouldn't race them in crits even at 70kg, the low spoke count makes for a lot of brake rub for me if I push them.
The kysrium elites would probably be better in that way. Handbuilts I'd consider something like an IRD Aero30 rim built up 28/32 to whatever the toughest hub you can afford is. At that spoke count you'll have a wheel that should be reasonably light, reasonably aero and tough as boots.
I think they're as strong as they can be built. If they did a version with 28 spokes at the rear it would be better for you, but they only come in 20 and 24. They use mini-bladed spokes, Sapim or Pillar, they're pretty sturdy spokes. If you only race crits on decent roads and use them for TT, they might be OK.
I looked into building them up, but with bladed spokes I can't make them cheaper than they do, so no point.
Yes, but those you mention are wheels for every day use... if one wants a racing only wheelset, tubolars are a must.
Some light carbon rims can be built into wheelsets at just over 1 Kg... and cheaper than the Ksyrium Elites...
I normally ride a pair of Dura Ace aluminium clinchers for road racing. The hub bearing surfaces are like mirrors, superbly made. Tempted by some Cosmic Carbones though. Personally I wouldn't go for carbon clinchers as they often have a weight limit that I'm close to if not over.