Do we take training too seriously?

phreak

Reading an article by Ed Moses today he talks about how Olympians need to be totally focused on training in the run up to the Olympics, telling media people and even family/friends that training comes first.

I wonder how many of us kinda do a similar thing? Does training take preference over other things in your life right now? Is it all a bit OTT considering we're not professionals?

Zoomer37

Depends what your doing with your time on the bike. If you race on a regular basis then you kind of have no choice but to take training seriously no matter what level your at. If you dont there's not point as you'll get nowhere.

jibberjim

I don't really agree with that at all Zoomer37, for a lot of people with still pretty average natural ability, Just Riding Around will get them to a level where they can participate and be active in a 3rd or 4th cat race. I've never taken training seriously - doing just the things I enjoy, and could be active in 2nd cat races. I'm not especially talented (4-5 years ago when I first started cycling I was over 80minutes for a 3 lap challenge) so my untrained state is not that high. I suspect I respond reasonable well to the type of Just Riding Around I enjoy. I see no reason for me to be more serious about training at all (even if I was racing at the moment), Being active in races is all you need, all that more serious training would do is change the level of racing I'd be active in - and I don't see any benefit to that.

Phreak I think a lot of people do take training too "seriously" but a lot of that is misunderstanding what actually makes a difference to their fitness and put a lot of impediments in the way that are simply unnecessary.

amaferanga

jibberjim wrote:

I don't really agree with that at all Zoomer37, for a lot of people with still pretty average natural ability, Just Riding Around will get them to a level where they can participate and be active in a 3rd or 4th cat race. I've never taken training seriously - doing just the things I enjoy, and could be active in 2nd cat races. I'm not especially talented (4-5 years ago when I first started cycling I was over 80minutes for a 3 lap challenge) so my untrained state is not that high. I suspect I respond reasonable well to the type of Just Riding Around I enjoy. I see no reason for me to be more serious about training at all (even if I was racing at the moment), Being active in races is all you need, all that more serious training would do is change the level of racing I'd be active in - and I don't see any benefit to that.

Phreak I think a lot of people do take training too "seriously" but a lot of that is misunderstanding what actually makes a difference to their fitness and put a lot of impediments in the way that are simply unnecessary.

If you just ride around then why bother with power meters and all that?

jibberjim

amaferanga wrote:

If you just ride around then why bother with power meters and all that?

Because I like to track my own performance? I'm not someone who uses a power meter prescriptively, it's purely a descriptive measure of what I've done.

Zoomer37

jibberjim wrote:

I don't really agree with that at all Zoomer37, for a lot of people with still pretty average natural ability, Just Riding Around will get them to a level where they can participate and be active in a 3rd or 4th cat race. I've never taken training seriously - doing just the things I enjoy, and could be active in 2nd cat races. I'm not especially talented (4-5 years ago when I first started cycling I was over 80minutes for a 3 lap challenge) so my untrained state is not that high. I suspect I respond reasonable well to the type of Just Riding Around I enjoy. I see no reason for me to be more serious about training at all (even if I was racing at the moment), Being active in races is all you need, all that more serious training would do is change the level of racing I'd be active in - and I don't see any benefit to that.

No worries, if what you or other people do works then thats cool.

phreak

Zoomer37 wrote:

Depends what your doing with your time on the bike. If you race on a regular basis then you kind of have no choice but to take training seriously no matter what level your at. If you dont there's not point as you'll get nowhere.

That's kinda my point. For what is essentially a recreational endeavour for us all, should we behave like the pros? Obviously they can do more volume than those of us with day jobs but I dare say many on here take their diet very seriously, do 10+ hours training per week, monitor and measure as much as they can.

Just wondering out loud when healthy becomes unhealthy.

wthrelfall

I often wonder if I'm taking cycling too seriously... but then I'd rather be obsessed with cycling than golf or football ;-)

bristolpete

Its a valid point and one often mused over as I feel cycling is the most paradoxical 'sport' out there. I even find it hard to call it sport as to me sport is a load of people chasing something around a field, not riding up hills solo.

I tend to call it condition now as truthfully I am not training for anything, I just enjoy getting four rides a week in from April to October and staying in shape.

When/ If people ask me what I am training for, which we all know happens a lot, I usually just say life, which I feel is true. At 40 it is nice being fitter than a lot of 20 year olds !

The other side to it is falling into the trap of riding into repetition, which can undo a lot of hard work, so it is nice to mix it up with the odd curve ball ride etc. Have seen a lot of bike riders, myself included ride the same loops over and over, which goes back to the training for life thing I suppose.

As Zoomer says, if you want to race, take your sport seriously, or you will quickly be out the back I think.

simon_e

phreak wrote:

For what is essentially a recreational endeavour for us all, should we behave like the pros? Obviously they can do more volume than those of us with day jobs but I dare say many on here take their diet very seriously, do 10+ hours training per week, monitor and measure as much as they can.

Just wondering out loud when healthy becomes unhealthy.

Some people have huge enthusiasm for their activities and are into every aspect while others are happy to 'just have a go' or turn up now and then. But I don't see much evidence of people on here really living and training like pro cyclists. I'd say anything becomes unhealthy if it negatively impacts on other parts of your life.

My cycling has to fit around work and a young family and those two things are more important to me. I know that, if I really tried, I could train more often and harder than I do; that I could eat more healthily than I do (though I'm not too bad on this score); and that if I had more motivation I would get quicker at time trialling. But even if I did those things the improvement I'd see is small, I would not make a great leap in performance.

I think most people posting on forums actually spend more time talking about training on the forum than actually doing it. This can (either inadvertently or deliberately) make their participation sound more 'serious' than it really is. There is also a great deal of 'purchase justification', or whatever the technical term for buying another bike / pair of shoes / pedals / wheels etc may be. However, if people have the money and it genuinely makes them happy then that's fine.

GiantMike

I'm quite serious about my training for racing (mainly crits, MTB, cyclocross and the occasional TT if I get forced into it).

To me racing is an experience in suffering; pushing yourself to your limit.

There's an adage that I use to maintain motivation (especially for H.I.T): Everybody has the will to win, but very few have the will to train. It's the training that gives you the ability to win.

I realise I haven't answered the question about taking it 'too seriously'. Surely everybody thinks their own training is not 'too' serious, unless they have a ridiculous regime dictated to them by somebody else?

SBezza

Depends on what you want to achieve in the sport, you can't reach your ultimate ability unless you put in some serious effort in training IMO. Just riding around only gets you so far.

I take my training and racing seriously, but then again I reap the rewards for doing this. I also try and manage it with a family and a sometimes tiring job, so although some things go out of the window with regards to family life, the majority of the time I manage to keep everyone happy.

phreak

That's kind of it isn't it? We're not professionals so how seriously should we take achieving our ability? I sometimes wonder if it's not all a bit anal and perhaps taking a more relaxed approach would not detract from enjoying riding whilst also maintaining a better cycling/life balance.

I mean I did the Maratona two years ago with some riding in the Dolomites for a week leading up to it and absolutely loved it. I'm quite a bit quicker than that now and put a lot into training and diet, but can I really say my enjoyment has gone up if I did the same again? After all I'm not likely to win the thing so is coming 400th rather than 500th worth it?

SBezza

I train to race and nothing more. It is not being professional that should limit you achieving your best, it is a mindset. I want to see how good I can get, simple as. If I didn't want to get the best I could, and was happy just going on the club run, just do a sportive etc, I wouldn't even train to be honest, and if I did, it certainly wouldn't be at the level I do now. I certainly do not enjoy some of my training.

There are lots of people who ride bikes for just social reason, and there are some of us that do take the sport very serious, and there are those in between. You have to balance what YOU want to do.

okgo

Its all personal isn't it. If everyone shared this mentality there would be no pro's or path to a higher level of racing, everyone would just be content with club runs.

I don't know what training is really? I like Jim have done a mixture or rides which were with other people, they were fast pace geared at really testing you, but its not like I go out and do Hill Repeats or anything (I probably should), I don't have a turbo trainer either, so my riding is either to get me to work and I mix up effort while doing it. Or its with others round Surrey who share a similar mindset, or its actually racing which is good training in itself.

But I think people do these things to see how far they can get. There's a lot of fulfillment for me in progressing through the ranks, and it gives me something to aim for. Before that I had no hobby for a few years, and I didn't feel like I had as much to keep me motivated as I do now. I don't really neglect my work or relations with people because of cycling, I race at the weekend and probably do a club ride as well some weeks, it helps to live with someone with a similar mindset about something (running in my case for my partner) but I can see how having children can make it difficult.

Sorry for rambling on In short, be what you want to be I guess, if you are happy to be a 4th cat finishing in the bunch each week, great, if you want to be as good as you can be (which may be the same thing haha) then that's great too!

mattshrops

Everyone justifies their own behaviour in all walks of life. Most people wouldnt think they were taking it TOO seriously(even if others did) or they would probably modify their behaviour.

willhub

I take training too seriously cause I don't know how to train and I'm shite and will always be so all I can do is run around like a headless chicken and pray for a day that does not feel like an off day and do a 1 hour 1 minute 25 and come 20th in a road race and do a 25 minute 10.

SBezza

willhub wrote:

I take training too seriously cause I don't know how to train and I'm shite and will always be so all I can do is run around like a headless chicken and pray for a day that does not feel like an off day and do a 1 hour 1 minute 25 and come 20th in a road race and do a 25 minute 10.

How do you know that, unless you have tried 100% to get to your best (and it takes years to achieve this, not a couple of months or 1 season).

I started off doing 25 min 10's and well over the hour 25's on a road bike, back in 2009, I am now going a hell of alot faster by taking my training, racing, nutrition etc seriously.

racingcondor

Like jibberjim I don't (I ride quite a bit but rarely get myself motivated for anything that could be called an interval).

If you guys who do take it seriously would just stop then I'd be a much better racer...

sampras38

phreak wrote:

Zoomer37 wrote:

Depends what your doing with your time on the bike. If you race on a regular basis then you kind of have no choice but to take training seriously no matter what level your at. If you dont there's not point as you'll get nowhere.

That's kinda my point. For what is essentially a recreational endeavour for us all, should we behave like the pros? Obviously they can do more volume than those of us with day jobs but I dare say many on here take their diet very seriously, do 10+ hours training per week, monitor and measure as much as they can.

Just wondering out loud when healthy becomes unhealthy.

I just think it's in some people's nature to take it seriously. I've been sporty all my life and have always tried to be the best I can. It's probably a flaw in my personality. I don't race but love Sportives and get a kick out of pushing myself. My diet is pretty strict most of time but I'll have blow outs occasionally, plus I'm fitter now than I've ever been in my life; and lighter. My sporting life began in bodybuilding when I was a teen and that taught me to train seriously. I'm now 41, busy work life, wife and 2 kids, and I still find the time. Some people would see it as a waste of time because I'm not a pro but I get a huge buzz from it.

Herbsman

It's only 'too serious' if it seriously affects other aspects of your life in a negative way. So if it damages your health, causes the risk of losing your job or ruins your relationships with friends and family, then yes. If not, then no.

Muffintop

It depends on your preception I think. I think alot of people on here talk a big game but when you break it down to everyone having families/jobs/lives outside of cycling there's no way folk can manage it 100% of the time.

My own experience was last year I wasn't serious about my training as I was this year, but this year I've been less concerned with spending time on the bike. Does that make sense? My training this year is more targeted so I have a goal/purpose of each training session, where as last year it was 'spend as much time on the road as possible'. This time last year (I did the etape caledonia last year and again this year) I couldn't look at the fecking bike. This year I feel soo much different, and would continue this pace of training that I'm doing now right through the year. Last year I think one week we (I trained with others and it was a case of egging each other on) did about 200 miles overall - which with full time jobs, no commute, dogs to walk, friends and families and gym time - was just hell.

This year I've taken a more measured approach, working on hill technique, building up strength and trying to build up speed, and not so much on endurance (as I figure I already have that). I think last year we forgot this was supposed to be fun, was supposed to enhance the way I lived my life and not consume it.

Mx

amaferanga

Muffintop wrote:

It depends on your preception I think. I think alot of people on here talk a big game but when you break it down to everyone having families/jobs/lives outside of cycling there's no way folk can manage it 100% of the time.

My own experience was last year I wasn't serious about my training as I was this year, but this year I've been less concerned with spending time on the bike. Does that make sense? My training this year is more targeted so I have a goal/purpose of each training session, where as last year it was 'spend as much time on the road as possible'. This time last year (I did the etape caledonia last year and again this year) I couldn't look at the fecking bike. This year I feel soo much different, and would continue this pace of training that I'm doing now right through the year. Last year I think one week we (I trained with others and it was a case of egging each other on) did about 200 miles overall - which with full time jobs, no commute, dogs to walk, friends and families and gym time - was just hell.

This year I've taken a more measured approach, working on hill technique, building up strength and trying to build up speed, and not so much on endurance (as I figure I already have that). I think last year we forgot this was supposed to be fun, was supposed to enhance the way I lived my life and not consume it.

Mx

200 miles a week is hell? That's a standard week for many including me. Granted I have no dogs or kids and don't p!ss around in gyms, but I find it fairly easy to find the time to ride >200 miles a week. When I'm not working, cycling is what I want to do so there's certainly no sacrifice to spending 12 hours plus a week on the bike.

okgo

I can see how it might be tough with no commute. I did 205 last week apparently and it was perfectly fine, 3 days commuting, a gentle spin and a race.

If you go out early on the weekend then you can get 50 miles in before most people even think about breakfast.

The Bounce

amaferanga wrote:

Granted I have no dogs or kids and don't p!ss around in gyms...

I go training at the gym 2 or 3 times a week and weirdly enough, I don't p!ss around in gyms either :roll:

amaferanga

The Bounce wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

Granted I have no dogs or kids and don't p!ss around in gyms...

I go training at the gym 2 or 3 times a week and weirdly enough, I don't p!ss around in gyms either :roll:

Since I'm training to ride a bike I prefer riding my bike. With that aim in mind, gym sessions for me would serve no purpose, hence why I said what I said.

Muffintop

amaferanga wrote:

200 miles a week is hell? That's a standard week for many including me. Granted I have no dogs or kids and don't p!ss around in gyms, but I find it fairly easy to find the time to ride >200 miles a week. When I'm not working, cycling is what I want to do so there's certainly no sacrifice to spending 12 hours plus a week on the bike.

It was a lot more than 12 hrs with an 11mph average (not to say I'm much faster now). I was Gyming it in the morning and out straight after work. Needless to say we couldn't look at each other for a while after the Etape.

Addendum: Targeted gym training - interval training on a turbo or spin bike, strength training and general overall fitness can add speed strength and endurance onto the road. You'll be missing something on those days the weather's crap and you can't get on the road or those odd days where you don't quite have time to get out. With my gym membership I (fortunately?) have no excuse in not adding something to my Cycling.

Mx

amaferanga

Muffintop wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

200 miles a week is hell? That's a standard week for many including me. Granted I have no dogs or kids and don't p!ss around in gyms, but I find it fairly easy to find the time to ride >200 miles a week. When I'm not working, cycling is what I want to do so there's certainly no sacrifice to spending 12 hours plus a week on the bike.

It was a lot more than 12 hrs with an 11mph average (not to say I'm much faster now). I was Gyming it in the morning and out straight after work. Needless to say we couldn't look at each other for a while after the Etape.

Addendum: Targeted gym training - interval training on a turbo or spin bike, strength training and general overall fitness can add speed strength and endurance onto the road. You'll be missing something on those days the weather's crap and you can't get on the road or those odd days where you don't quite have time to get out. With my gym membership I (fortunately?) have no excuse in not adding something to my Cycling.

Mx

Many believe strength training makes naff all difference to endurance cycling performance, but there are numerous lengthy threads on that subject already. If you're struggling to get the time to do the miles on the bike then skipping the strength sessions at the gym would seem logical (to me). I would suggest that if you're 'only' averaging 11mph then you need to ride more and spend less time in the gym anyway.

And you don't need to do intervals in a gym or even on a turbo - I do all mine on the road from the start of spring through to the start of winter.

shockedsoshocked

amaferanga wrote:

Muffintop wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

200 miles a week is hell? That's a standard week for many including me. Granted I have no dogs or kids and don't p!ss around in gyms, but I find it fairly easy to find the time to ride >200 miles a week. When I'm not working, cycling is what I want to do so there's certainly no sacrifice to spending 12 hours plus a week on the bike.

It was a lot more than 12 hrs with an 11mph average (not to say I'm much faster now). I was Gyming it in the morning and out straight after work. Needless to say we couldn't look at each other for a while after the Etape.

Addendum: Targeted gym training - interval training on a turbo or spin bike, strength training and general overall fitness can add speed strength and endurance onto the road. You'll be missing something on those days the weather's crap and you can't get on the road or those odd days where you don't quite have time to get out. With my gym membership I (fortunately?) have no excuse in not adding something to my Cycling.

Mx

Many believe strength training makes naff all difference to endurance cycling performance, but there are numerous lengthy threads on that subject already. If you're struggling to get the time to do the miles on the bike then skipping the strength sessions at the gym would seem logical (to me). I would suggest that if you're 'only' averaging 11mph then you need to ride more and spend less time in the gym anyway.

And you don't need to do intervals in a gym or even on a turbo - I do all mine on the road from the start of spring through to the start of winter.

There is evidence out there that suggests strength training (again strength training isn't the best way to define it as are there many more positive adaptations than just getting stronger) works. Functional stuff (as in not doing bicep curls when you're a cyclist) can help flexibility, core strength and muscle recruitment/activation, as well as potentially ironing out imbalances. I personally do it because I've tried the full time cycling thing, putting in 350+ mile weeks a couple of summers back, but it's boring as hell. I've always enjoyed lifting, so why not do something functional?

Muffintop

amaferanga wrote:

If you're struggling to get the time to do the miles on the bike then skipping the strength sessions at the gym would seem logical (to me). I would suggest that if you're 'only' averaging 11mph then you need to ride more and spend less time in the gym anyway.

And you don't need to do intervals in a gym or even on a turbo - I do all mine on the road from the start of spring through to the start of winter.

This morning I spent 1 hr 10 at the gym before work...

It goes like this:

The gym, 5 mins gear on and walk to gym, 1/2 hr spin class, 20 mins resistance interval training, 10 mins core work and stretching,5 mins home = 1 hr 10 mins.

The bike would have gone like this: 10 mins gear and bike, 15 mins getting out of town, 35 mins proper road work (if traffic hasn't been too bad) 20 mins back into town. Not a good use of time in this instance.

When you do interval training on the road are you aware that you are subject to blind summits and corners? That you are subject to the state of the road, and other users? In doing a 2 mile 'on' 2 mile 'off' session, are they not punctuated with junctions, crossings, cars getting in and out of the way? Are you really pushing yourself as hard as you can while having to make allowances for these, or do you wonder vaguely as you go white around the eyes 'I wonder if that car is going to hit me' or 'am I in the right place to make this bend efficiently'?

I would rather be out on the road, but when time's tight and there's a hoolie blowing the gym wins.

Mx

Team4Luke

Muffintop wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

If you're struggling to get the time to do the miles on the bike then skipping the strength sessions at the gym would seem logical (to me). I would suggest that if you're 'only' averaging 11mph then you need to ride more and spend less time in the gym anyway.

And you don't need to do intervals in a gym or even on a turbo - I do all mine on the road from the start of spring through to the start of winter.

This morning I spent 1 hr 10 at the gym before work...

It goes like this:

The gym, 5 mins gear on and walk to gym, 1/2 hr spin class, 20 mins resistance interval training, 10 mins core work and stretching,5 mins home = 1 hr 10 mins.

The bike would have gone like this: 10 mins gear and bike, 15 mins getting out of town, 35 mins proper road work (if traffic hasn't been too bad) 20 mins back into town. Not a good use of time in this instance.

When you do interval training on the road are you aware that you are subject to blind summits and corners? That you are subject to the state of the road, and other users? In doing a 2 mile 'on' 2 mile 'off' session, are they not punctuated with junctions, crossings, cars getting in and out of the way? Are you really pushing yourself as hard as you can while having to make allowances for these, or do you wonder vaguely as you go white around the eyes 'I wonder if that car is going to hit me' or 'am I in the right place to make this bend efficiently'?

I would rather be out on the road, but when time's tight and there's a hoolie blowing the gym wins.

Mx

everyone has to manage their available time and you rightly point out your poor access to good roads for training nearby, what your doing in the gym is fine and a good mix, core good too. That said, takes me 40 mins to ride to my regular quiet training area and same back but together with the session I would do that whole ride is very beneficial for me as I will be riding back on sore legs, really brings gains on. I would say look closely where you live and see if there is a quiet loop you can do with left turns and no stops, I found two near me, main roads but quiet, wide and little traffic, one is about a mile around and other 2.5miles, if I don't have the time or can't be bothered I will often do these and even stick out for an hour which is mentally quite hard on a little loop, but I can ride as hard as I want constantly, surprising what you can find locally.
As, for your comments about doing intervals/hard session on roads with interruptions, anyone who knows how to train will not be using roads like these.
Strength training in the gym not really needed for cycling unless your a track rider requiring sheer muscular power to get moving/sprinting etc, any strength work should be done on the bike and using various hand positions on the bars, in and out saddle work on the hills too. Favourite of mine once a week and helps to break up the monotomy of tempo work, is big gear very short efforts from a rolling almost stopped start, 20 secs max, (53x13/14) you won't hit any lung busting hr but after a set of these your riding legs will know about it.