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Two years ban up for Dan Staite...

Yellow PerilYellow Peril Posts: 4,466
edited April 2012 in Amateur race
...at the beginning of May I believe.

It was the story that shook the Amateur racing ranks a couple of years ago. Anybody know (or can Dan himself say) if he intends to return to racing? Moreover if he did return would he be accepted back into the ranks as pro's are (admittedly on the surface at least) or was it an unforgivable act in amateur racing?
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  • Wouldn't say it shook anything particularly, plenty of amateurs who still dabble in a bit of charging, if not quite as advanced as EPO usage.

    His mistake was to give some Rapha lads a kicking and catch the eye of Herety who reported it. A big victory for the BC anti-doping system, apparently :roll:
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

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  • mrolimroli Posts: 3,622
    Or his mistake was to take a load of drugs and try and cheat other riders?
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    I don't think anyone really cares much about what he's doing now.
    More problems but still living....
  • I noticed last year that a Dan Staite won a parkrun event (that's running, for the cyclists amongst us).
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    I noticed last year that a Dan Staite won a parkrun event (that's running, for the cyclists amongst us).

    Yeah, apparently Park Run doesn't give a censored that he's banned from all competition. They like drugs cheats.
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  • fish156fish156 Posts: 496
    Presumably if he returned to the sport, he'd be back as a 3rd cat? - he didn't get enough points to maintain his 1st cat licence in the '10 season prior to his ban, and no points in the '11 season.
  • mroli wrote:
    Or his mistake was to take a load of drugs and try and cheat other riders?

    Getting into semantics here, but you know what I mean.

    My gripe is with BC claiming to have a credible anti-doping system at an amateur level, when in fact it doesn't, you just have to arouse the suspicions of someone with a bit of influence before anything happens, and some riders seem to make a decent go at avoiding this. If there's daft lads in gyms taking quality PEDs (and they're cheap, especially round here) cyclists are doing it, and every region has a hardcore of a few dodgy riders. One lad getting caught out is just the tip of the iceberg in my opinion.
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • Yellow PerilYellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    jibberjim wrote:
    I noticed last year that a Dan Staite won a parkrun event (that's running, for the cyclists amongst us).

    Yeah, apparently Park Run doesn't give a shoot that he's banned from all competition. They like drugs cheats.

    Would the ban have covered running as well? If so it takes a pretty thick skinned person not only to rock up and compete but win the event as well.
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    jibberjim wrote:
    I noticed last year that a Dan Staite won a parkrun event (that's running, for the cyclists amongst us).

    Yeah, apparently Park Run doesn't give a shoot that he's banned from all competition. They like drugs cheats.

    Would the ban have covered running as well? If so it takes a pretty thick skinned person not only to rock up and compete but win the event as well.

    Yes all WADA sports, however park run does not operate under UK Athletics, so they would set their own rules, and apparently welcome banned dopers.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Yellow PerilYellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    jibberjim wrote:
    I noticed last year that a Dan Staite won a parkrun event (that's running, for the cyclists amongst us).

    Yeah, apparently Park Run doesn't give a shoot that he's banned from all competition. They like drugs cheats.

    Would the ban have covered running as well? If so it takes a pretty thick skinned person not only to rock up and compete but win the event as well.

    I guess that answers my question. If he is that desperate to compete I'm sure he'll be lining up in some 10 or chipper shortly.
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • jibberjim wrote:
    Yes all WADA sports, however park run does not operate under UK Athletics, so they would set their own rules, and apparently welcome banned dopers.
    I doubt that they specifically welcome them, more that as they're just fun events would it really be worth the admin overhead to try to ensure that they can't take part, bearing in mind there can be multiple people with the same name and it's not like you have to provide any sort of proof of ID to take part. I assume there is also no drug testing at parkruns, so if someone wanted to, they could dope all they wanted provided they only ever compete in parkruns. If they're not going to make any effort to stop people doping who take part in parkruns (and financially that would surely be a non-starter) then I'm not sure it makes much sense to ban people from parkruns who failed a test elsewhere. Indeed is it even in the parkrun rules that you're not permitted to take banned substances, would someone even be cheating, strictly speaking, if they doped and took part in a parkrun?
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    jibberjim wrote:
    Yes all WADA sports, however park run does not operate under UK Athletics, so they would set their own rules, and apparently welcome banned dopers.
    I doubt that they specifically welcome them,

    The response on twitter was that they specifically welcome anyone, I'm still waiting the fuller response via email.
    more that as they're just fun events would it really be worth the admin overhead to try to ensure that they can't take part,

    It would be impossible - but it's rather different trying to stop someone taking part, and lauding their achievements in "winning" an event, it would be very simply for them to say "unknown runner" in the results or "Removed as currently serving a ban under world doping rules". It's interesting as anyone who has a BC race licence, or is a member of UK Athletics or any other organisation which requires you to sign up to the WADA code. And one of the responsibilities contain within that code on athletes is "To use their influence on Athlete values and behavior to foster anti-doping attitudes.". It's my belief that by not supporting UKAD bans, and facillitating continued outlets for convicted dopers to compete that anyone who does that is not meeting their WADA obligations.

    It would also be a simple case to bring the park run under UKAD, and that way enforcement is brought about because anyone who then competes would have their ban extended for entering whilst banned - there would be no need for any management on Parkruns part at all.
    would someone even be cheating, strictly speaking, if they doped and took part in a parkrun?

    Nope, you'd be completely fine - there's some confusion if it's a race with a winner, or a timed event though, in many places park run specifically avoid any discussion of it being a race, saying it's only a timed event. However they then publish and celebrate winners.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    jibberjim wrote:

    Nope, you'd be completely fine - there's some confusion if it's a race with a winner, or a timed event though, in many places park run specifically avoid any discussion of it being a race, saying it's only a timed event. However they then publish and celebrate winners.

    I think the same could be said for some 'sportives' :)
  • jibberjim wrote:
    it would be very simply for them to say "unknown runner" in the results or "Removed as currently serving a ban under world doping rules".
    ..
    It would also be a simple case to bring the park run under UKAD, and that way enforcement is brought about because anyone who then competes would have their ban extended for entering whilst banned - there would be no need for any management on Parkruns part at all.
    But wouldn't any of that get you into issues of needing to establish identity? Otherwise anyone could go along and race as Dan Staite and get his ban extended out of malice. Or a different person called Dan Staite might race, and they'd have all sorts of fuss trying to establish for sure that it's someone else with the same name rather than the banned person.
  • anyone could go along and race as Dan Staite and get his ban extended out of malice. Or a different person called Dan Staite might race, and they'd have all sorts of fuss trying to establish for sure that it's someone else with the same name rather than the banned person.

    My original observation was that a Dan Staite had won an event. I have no way of knowing if that was the Dan Staite.

    Bit of a b*mmer, if you happen to be a totally different Dan Staite. You participate in parkrun in all innocence, then the mighty forces of WADA crash down upon you. Possibly.
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    But wouldn't any of that get you into issues of needing to establish identity? Otherwise anyone could go along and race as Dan Staite and get his ban extended out of malice. Or a different person called Dan Staite might race, and they'd have all sorts of fuss trying to establish for sure that it's someone else with the same name rather than the banned person.

    Yes of course, But it would by UKAD establishing the proof - the same as if a banned athlete entered a CTT event or Club 10. It's not the responsibility of the organiser to obtain proof of identity of individuals and prove that they are not banned.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • His mistake was to give some Rapha lads a kicking and catch the eye of Herety who reported it. A big victory for the BC anti-doping system, apparently :roll:
    His mistake, according to those in the know (that's me by the way as I am the organiser of the race in which his test was conducted) was to buy his dope from a known dealer that was spilling the beans and therefore BC had been trying to test him at a race for some time (months). That he gave the Rapha boys a bit of a kicking in a race was a coincidence as BC had already targetted him.

    Paul
  • PaulThomo wrote:
    His mistake was to give some Rapha lads a kicking and catch the eye of Herety who reported it. A big victory for the BC anti-doping system, apparently :roll:
    His mistake, according to those in the know (that's me by the way as I am the organiser of the race in which his test was conducted) was to buy his dope from a known dealer that was spilling the beans and therefore BC had been trying to test him at a race for some time (months). That he gave the Rapha boys a bit of a kicking in a race was a coincidence as BC had already targetted him.

    Paul

    Apologies in that case. At the time I was racing seriously and pally with a couple of Rapha lads from up this way who'd said Herety had potted him, obviously there was an outside source but not him if BC had been targeting earlier, just coincidence I guess! Why did it take so long to test him out of curiosity?
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • Chip \'oylerChip \'oyler Posts: 2,324
    The lads done the crime and served the time - so let him get on with his life
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  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    The lads done the crime and served the time - so let him get on with his life

    I think the hate towards him is as much about how much of a knob he came across as in the aftermath.

    And I suspect there are plenty of amateur racers, 2nd Cats even, doing similar and getting away with it.
    More problems but still living....
  • amaferanga wrote:
    The lads done the crime and served the time - so let him get on with his life

    I think the hate towards him is as much about how much of a knob he came across as in the aftermath.

    And I suspect there are plenty of amateur racers, 2nd Cats even, doing similar and getting away with it.

    It'd be a sad day when a second cat gets busted for doing EPO!!

    I really think that there needs to be some very occasional, randomised testing done at races (they may already do this - but I've never seen any sign of it?). I know the cost is high, but hitting 5-6 races per year and testing the top ten riders plus some others at random would be enough to bring any serious doping to a halt as the pay off for doping is relatively small (kudos, a small amount of prize money which is in all likelihood outweighed by the cost of the drugs), and the cost of being caught is very high (mostly the social cost - see Dan Staite and the general ridicule there).

    Obviously the cost of this in terms of how the sport is seen is potentially high if there were several people busted, but less of a problem than amateurs being put in a position where they feel the need to dope to compete and the gradual escalation which seems inevitable from the current scenario. This damage could be mitigated by British Cycling making it clear that it was about to start testing people at random to discourage potential dopers.

    FWIW, I think that Dan Staite should be allowed to return to the sport having served his time - although obviously with an eye to testing him at random events as an obvious high risk individual.
  • hangeronhangeron Posts: 127
    anyone could go along and race as Dan Staite and get his ban extended out of malice. Or a different person called Dan Staite might race, and they'd have all sorts of fuss trying to establish for sure that it's someone else with the same name rather than the banned person.

    My original observation was that a Dan Staite had won an event. I have no way of knowing if that was the Dan Staite.

    Bit of a b*mmer, if you happen to be a totally different Dan Staite. You participate in parkrun in all innocence, then the mighty forces of WADA crash down upon you. Possibly.


    That's nothing...my mate is called David Millar - you can imagine the fun when he emailed British Cycling to ask about their Olympic Development Program
  • amaferanga wrote:
    The lads done the crime and served the time - so let him get on with his life

    I think the hate towards him is as much about how much of a knob he came across as in the aftermath.

    And I suspect there are plenty of amateur racers, 2nd Cats even, doing similar and getting away with it.

    It'd be a sad day when a second cat gets busted for doing EPO!!
    .

    Already happened: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... o-use.html
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