Steel framed bikes

brad93

Hi, I was just wondering if steel framed hardtails are better than aluminium ones? I was just speaking to a few of the guys who bike where I do and they were all raging about how good steel hardtails are, I just wondered whether they are better or not And also would it be better to have a hardtail bike as a beginner rather than a full suspension?

cooldad

No and not particularly.

brad93

Wow, thanks for a useful reply.

cooldad

Anytime. Or were you asking for reasons?

brad93

Like I just wanted to know the actual differences really. They were all people who race and were saying something about they find it easier to climb with a steel hardtail and that they find it easier to accelerate but I just wondered on what other people say

Andy B

You can make any frame material behave in almost any manner of ways to give any manner of performance characteristics

Better is not a performance characteristic

In general Aluminium frames may be lighter than steel, but may give a harsher ride

People raving about the products they own, there's a shock!

Hardtail or full suss? Some believe it's better to start on a hardtail, other's don't believe this to be true

Anyway

I have owned Titanium frames, Carbon frames, Aluminium frames and Steel frames

They all felt different.

My current preferences are Carbon & Steel.

My Aluminium frames were was too harsh for my liking & the Titanium was lovely and light but the frame was too big so it had to go.

cooldad

They are wrong. Some steel frames are better than some aluminium frames and vice versa. Some carbon frames are better than both, some aren't. There is no absolute best. It depends on the design, the geometry, the manufacturing process, personal preference etc.
Most bikes are aluminium, top and bottom end, but with carbon increasing in popularity, and reducing in cost, undoubtably more will be mde of carbon, which is strong and light.
As for hardtail vs full sus - depends again on design, preference, what you want to ride etc.
My preference is for suspension both ends.

cooldad

Must learn to type quicker.

cooldad

ps I have ridden steel frames that were harsher than aluminium ones - it's in the material and the design - there are many different types of steel - from lovely Reynolds tubing to gas pipe. Gas pipe is not a good material for bikes.

brad93

Oh right okay then, thanks both for your knowledge. Also just another question whilst you guys are on here, seeing as you seem to know your stuff. For my rear shock, is there a certain psi that I need to put in it for my weight? Or do you just have to play around with it until it feels right?

cooldad

Nope, pump it up so when you get on the bike - in 'attack' position - as if you were going to ride over some bumpy stuff, it sags about 25%. There should be a rubber band on it to measure. Then fine tune until you are happy.

brad93

oh okay then, thanks

al2098

If you find a steel frame more comfortable maybe you have mistaken this for a road bike forum.
A small difference in tyre pressure would be more significant to ride comfort on an MTB.
Simply an alu bike is lighter and cheaper (at the same weight if you can find a super light steel frame).
Don't listen to the hype that you can repair a steel frame that gets damaged, the integrity of the metal will be compromised and you may as well bin it like any other material as it will fail.
The majority of manufacturers have gone to alu for a reason. It makes sense.
Forget titanium. The dream material is great for high temperature applications like jet engines but it is very brittle and hard to work. I have heard of more titanium frame failures that any other material due to poor welds you would not notice via the naked eye.
Carbon fibre seems a good option when the price goes down but beware of cheap carbon. The difference between cheap and expensive concerns the weave and tightness/direction with regards to application. I suppose you get what you pay for..
To sum it up, I had a steel frame when I was a kid but that was 1975.

Bishbosh10

al2098 wrote:

Don't listen to the hype that you can repair a steel frame that gets damaged, the integrity of the metal will be compromised and you may as well bin it like any other material as it will fail.

Erm, only if done by a muppet. Steel frames are definitely more repairable than ali ones, simply down to the number of people able to weld / braze steel compared to ali. As with any repair to any material, correct prep and repair procedure are key to a competent repair.

This is not a vote for steel over Ali (I was on a steel hard tail, now on an Ali full squisher), I just wanted to clear up the inaccuracy in the above statement.

neil_sheehan2000

I've always liked this description, from the book 'Bicycle Design' by Mike Burrows (he designed a bike or two for Giant, the "Lotus" bike, etc)

Anyone who regularly reads any of the popular cycling magazines will already have some idea of the properties of the various materials used for frame construction. Unfortunately it will be the wrong idea.

This is because the various reviews and road tests in these journals are written by journalists. Such articles are intended to be interesting and entertaining, which is, I suppose, as it should be. Sadly they are seldom written by cycle designers. And they are almost never written by engineers, most of whom would know better than to perpetuate (even in the name of entertainment) the many harmful myths that surround cycle frame and construction.

The varying materials used in frame construction do, of course, have different qualities. It is important to have a good understanding of them when designing cycles. But the actual characteristics are usually only measurable with sensitive instruments- and almost never with the posterior of a homo sapiens! Even more importantly, any differences that may exist in the final complete frame will be more to do with its design (and specifically the tube size) than the material chosen for its construction.

Saying that, I do have a steel hardtail at the minute, and think it's pretty ace- but I think that's down to the fact that it was cheap and is very fun to ride, and less down to the material.

al2098

[quoteThis is not a vote for steel over Ali (I was on a steel hard tail, now on an Ali full squisher), I just wanted to clear up the inaccuracy in the above statement.][/quote]
I suppose if its a crack in the weld then it can be repaired by a pro but I would not trust a re-bent steel tube to be as strong as it was before.
Do you disagree that when you bend a steel tube and then re-bend it back into its original shape that it has an effect on the material?

al2098

Corrosion could also be a problem.
Any water gets inside the frame and you could have internal corrosion/rust you would not notice.
Erm.. would this be something a muppet could fix..

cooldad

You may be missing the point.

cat_with_no_tail

al2098 wrote:

Corrosion could also be a problem.
Any water gets inside the frame and you could have internal corrosion/rust you would not notice.
Erm.. would this be something a muppet could fix..

If someone is leaving their steel framed bike in conditions where it could corrode enough to be a problem in the average useful lifespan of a bike, the rest of the components would have been ruined LONG before the frame anyway. Rust on steel frames simply isn't the problem some people like to make it out to be.

specialeyes

cooldad wrote:

Nope, pump it up so when you get on the bike - in 'attack' position - as if you were going to ride over some bumpy stuff, it sags about 25%. There should be a rubber band on it to measure. Then fine tune until you are happy.

Just to add to what cd says, make sure you do that with your riding gear on, camelbak with water ect..
Just incase you were gonna do it in your kitchen and not on the trail.

Bishbosh10

al2098 wrote:

[quoteThis is not a vote for steel over Ali (I was on a steel hard tail, now on an Ali full squisher), I just wanted to clear up the inaccuracy in the above statement.]

I suppose if its a crack in the weld then it can be repaired by a pro but I would not trust a re-bent steel tube to be as strong as it was before.
Do you disagree that when you bend a steel tube and then re-bend it back into its original shape that it has an effect on the material?[/quote]

No of course I don't, but if you are using that argument, an equal deformation of an ali tube would be even more damaged if straightened. Now if you want to get into a discussion about fatigue cycles (no pun intended!) then pull up a chair.....

Clank

'al2098'. An aluminium alloy featuring between 3.2 and 3.8% copper (although technically, it should AA2098).

Hmmmmm, anyone else sense a pro-ali agenda here? Especially as the arguements used are a little bit myth-heavy for my liking.

I'm not going to sing the praises of either material (or composite, or titanium), but I will suggest that anyone wanting to know the difference swings their leg over a range of frames and finds out for themselves. It's the swiftest way of deciding what *you* like.

And, at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

For info, my cx is ali, my mountain bike is steel. I'd like my next frame to be composite.

YeehaaMcgee

Clank wrote:

'al2098'. An aluminium alloy featuring between 3.2 and 3.8% copper (although technically, it should AA2098).

Hmmmmm, anyone else sense a pro-ali agenda here? Especially as the arguements used are a little bit myth-heavy for my liking.

You been smoking the special "paranoia" blend of Golden Virginia?

supersonic

Steel for me just doesn't get a look in unless is extremely cheap. Don't see the point when other material can build into lighter, cheaper frames with varying ride qualities (depending on design).

sloppycowpat

meh I like the look of steel frames and i just like my steel frames. have no probs with alu and i want a carbon frame at some point

al2098

'al2098'. An aluminium alloy featuring between 3.2 and 3.8% copper (although technically, it should AA2098

Quite confusing. Don't know how to reply to that. :roll:

Clank

al2098 wrote:

'al2098'. An aluminium alloy featuring between 3.2 and 3.8% copper (although technically, it should AA2098

Quite confusing. Don't know how to reply to that. :roll:

Your user name - it's a type of aluminium alloy.

Dirtrider

start on a hartail, then when you do progress to a full sus you will be a much smoother rider.

Whatever anyone says, my opinion is the smoothest riders started life either on rigids, hardtails or BMX's. For example, I know people who can ride hardtails on downhill tracks quicker than a lot of people with full suspension downhill bikes. Logic says if you put the people on hardtails on a downhill bike they would rip it then. Sometimes logic doesnt turn out to be correct though.

Get whatever you want mate, everyone will tell you different. spending £200 on a frame would probably be better spent on an alu frame than a steel. If you spend £3-400 I would go steel.

cooldad

Dirtrider wrote:

start on a hartail, then when you do progress to a full sus you will be a much smoother rider.

Whatever anyone says, my opinion is the smoothest riders started life either on rigids, hardtails or BMX's. For example, I know people who can ride hardtails on downhill tracks quicker than a lot of people with full suspension downhill bikes. Logic says if you put the people on hardtails on a downhill bike they would rip it then. Sometimes logic doesnt turn out to be correct though.

Get whatever you want mate, everyone will tell you different. spending £200 on a frame would probably be better spent on an alu frame than a steel. If you spend £3-400 I would go steel.

And putting sandpaper in your shorts will toughen your butt up quicker.

Dirtrider

And the same would happen with broken glass, but it doesnt have much relevance to this -The guy asked a question and I've given him an answer.

Having ridden BMX and hardtails, I know I'm a much smoother rider for it, I pick lines better on trails, and I'm much smoother on jumps and drops. It also shows when I'm racing, you can see the difference in lines that people take from their experience in riding.

al2098

Your user name - it's a type of aluminium alloy.

I honestly did not know that.! :oops: