This advice I received at 2nd club run today, do you agree ?

Sunderland Supporter

Today was my 2nd club run and id been living for it all week long. Four rides available today and I went out on the 60 mile third level one. Pacewise its roughly 22 mph avg on flats and 18 mph on hills. As the session was nearing the end, the final section is a long climb that really strung out the riders from those who made it look easy as going downhill to those we thought would require an oxygen mask and a nurse. I was riding alongside a very experienced older rider on the climb and he was telling me that when he was in the early stages of being a club member that this particular ride almost slaughtered him :shock: I noticed he was using a standard double up front as opposed to the compact I was using, I said but you make it look so easy and I could never make that hill using his front cogs. He laughed it off and said as a rider keeps up doing the club outings , that their fitness and strength improve together and rides that are killing you become rides you just take in your stride. You riders with plenty of club miles in your legs, did you find this to be the case for you and did exhausting road sections really become an awful lot easier...............or are you walking the bike to the top still ?

iPete

Rule # 10.

Sunderland Supporter

iPete wrote:

Rule # 10.

enlighten me

iPete

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

Take with a large pinch of salt!

Rigged

If you were going the same speed as him then he must have been turning a larger cog much slower than you were spinning your compact (or you were at opposite ends of your rear cassettes), either way you were keeping up with him

oldraver

The key phrase here is " rides that are killing you become rides you just take in your stride ".
The old boy was turning a standard double up front. Proving he had the strength in his legs to push that gear uphill.
Two elements required as regards cycling fitness.
Muscle strength needed to push a large gear & cardio vascular fitness enabling you to keep up a high cadence.
I rather suspect that the old boy has been there & done it & could burn you off if he felt like it all gearing being equal.
You do really need to lookout for these old stealth cyclists & we could all take what experience they have to offer on board.

mouth

I'd like to invoke rule #5. And then once you've mastered the compact you absolutely need to bring rule #12 (n+1) into play, but with a double up front this time. This way you have both angles covered.

BruceG

So what was the advice he gave you?
You recounted that he stated the obvious in that the rides will get easier, which is clear if you you keep riding and your fitness improves, but you said you got some advice, what was it?

jibberjim

No, the same parts of rides still hurt me, in fact more places do now, the same parts just hurt me for 6 minutes rather than 9 now.

andrewjoseph

Hills will always and should always hurt, you just get up them faster and recover quicker.

themekon

The message has to be ,get fitter get faster. That is just what that rider was saying.

dodgy

Hang on, the 'advice' you received is that a rider told you if you ride more you will get faster/find the rides easier?

And you're asking us if we agree?

Is that right?

crescent

I believe Robert Millar gave the best advice when asked the best way to train for the mountains.

"Find a mountain and cycle up it as fast as you can"

ddraver

To sum up, he said, the more you ride, the better you ll get - To a certain extent, it does nt matter how you do it, just ride more (16hrs a week according to Mr Cavendish, but then most of us find real life/beer get in the way of that).

Where club rides (or sufferfest vids) are good is that you ride at a faster pace than you may do on you own (as you won't relax and look at the view) and also because you ll have to react to changes of pace/sprints/breaks etc which will improve your general bike fitness too...

Personally, I started road riding with a club last year, and I ve found it much easier (in the same group this year). There is definitely something different to having miles in your legs developed over several years...I'm sure I don't ride much less that some of the 60 year old men in our club, but their endurance and stamina is far better than mine. I reckon that when they were my age they were very good indeed...

What gear he was using is irrelevant - you were probably two cogs lower at the back instead..

Sunderland Supporter

ddraver wrote:

To sum up, he said, the more you ride, the better you ll get - To a certain extent, it does nt matter how you do it, just ride more (16hrs a week according to Mr Cavendish, but then most of us find real life/beer get in the way of that).

Where club rides (or sufferfest vids) are good is that you ride at a faster pace than you may do on you own (as you won't relax and look at the view) and also because you ll have to react to changes of pace/sprints/breaks etc which will improve your general bike fitness too...

Personally, I started road riding with a club last year, and I ve found it much easier (in the same group this year). There is definitely something different to having miles in your legs developed over several years...I'm sure I don't ride much less that some of the 60 year old men in our club, but their endurance and stamina is far better than mine. I reckon that when they were my age they were very good indeed...

What gear he was using is irrelevant - you were probably two cogs lower at the back instead..

Thanks for answering the question dd. I find it so tedious to read internet forum wiseguy smart@rse replies like the pack above yours.All Im really wanting to ascertain is did riders actually find one day that a struggling piece of road all of a sudden become very manageable indeed, Im really hoping that one day those 8% + long climbs will become a lot easier for me too.

ddraver

One day they will....but then you ll probably just ride up it faster so it ll hurt just as much...albeit for not as long!

You can help develop endurance by doing long, slow rides, deliberately keeping your HR low for several hours (usually done over the winter), but I reckon there is something about riding for several years too - hence why young pro's do not win classics very often...

cougie

Yes of course it gets easier with more riding.

andrewjoseph

Sunderland Supporter wrote:

...


Thanks for answering the question dd. I find it so tedious to read internet forum wiseguy smart@rse replies like the pack above yours.All Im really wanting to ascertain is did riders actually find one day that a struggling piece of road all of a sudden become very manageable indeed, Im really hoping that one day those 8% + long climbs will become a lot easier for me too.

I'm sure some of us (myself included) thought we were giving good advice. You seem to have done taken this tack on several threads: asked a question, not liked the responses, then asked a similar question elsewhere to try to elicit favourable responses.

Have you sorted out your bike position so you can see more than 10m up the road yet?

As for your contention that you will suddenly find form, I'm afraid that is wishful thinking. You can get up most hills easily,you just chose an easy gear and don't pedal as hard. It will be slow and you won't develop much. To get up hills fast (or anywhere else really), it will take a lot of effort and pain.

As you get fitter your threshold will improve so you can go faster for longer, but it will still hurt.

If you suddenly find hills very manageable indeed, you are either not trying so hard or have taken some 'boost' pills.

BruceG

Sunderland Supporter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

To sum up, he said, the more you ride, the better you ll get - To a certain extent, it does nt matter how you do it, just ride more (16hrs a week according to Mr Cavendish, but then most of us find real life/beer get in the way of that).

Where club rides (or sufferfest vids) are good is that you ride at a faster pace than you may do on you own (as you won't relax and look at the view) and also because you ll have to react to changes of pace/sprints/breaks etc which will improve your general bike fitness too...

Personally, I started road riding with a club last year, and I ve found it much easier (in the same group this year). There is definitely something different to having miles in your legs developed over several years...I'm sure I don't ride much less that some of the 60 year old men in our club, but their endurance and stamina is far better than mine. I reckon that when they were my age they were very good indeed...

What gear he was using is irrelevant - you were probably two cogs lower at the back instead..

Thanks for answering the question dd. I find it so tedious to read internet forum wiseguy smart@rse replies like the pack above yours.All Im really wanting to ascertain is did riders actually find one day that a struggling piece of road all of a sudden become very manageable indeed, Im really hoping that one day those 8% + long climbs will become a lot easier for me too.

Perhaps in the same way as a lot of us find it tedious reading nonsensical idiotic "NON QUESTIONS". He didnt give you any advice, so how could we state whether we agree or not, he simply stated the obvious!

crescent

I guess you would only really know if you rode the exact same route every day and measured your performance in some way but it is more likely to improve over a period of time as there are too many factors affecting your performance on any given day.
My experience is that over the last few years I have increased my distances quite significantly - a 30 mile ride was quite long for me two years ago, now it is the norm and comfortably achievable. Steep hills are always hard I think but I still enjoy the challenge of riding up them. Some of my regular climbs do feel easier but I think that is down to a general improvement in fitness and an improvement in technique which just comes with practice. I can't honestly say I noticed a step change though, just a feeling of wanting to go a bit further or a bit faster over time.

Cheers

brucey72

If you are able to hold a conversation AND check out what gearing another rider is using when climbing then you are certainly be capable of pushing harder than you are currently although averaging 18mph up them is pretty impressive!!

Sesquepidilian

andrewjoseph wrote:

Hills will always and should always hurt, you just get up them faster and recover quicker.

This, basically. My personal "beasting" hill I couldn't do in one go 6 weeks ago. Untill the last week or so I could smash it in one go but would be absolutly destroyed by it. Last night I hit it and was able to keep going without the need for a break. Woohoo go me etc.

themekon

I seem to be going in reverse. Distances and speeds and hills I used to find well within my capabilities a few years ago are now much harder. I suppose you start,train,get fitter/faster then comes that awful realisation which will hit everyone in time .That you just can't keep it going once the years start rolling by fast.

oldwelshman

I this a wind up ?
I like the coment third level club run, 22mph av on flat and 18mph uphills !!!
Look forward to eeing you in the pro peleton soon if you do at those speeds at club run level three. I am sure many beginners will read that and really look forward to joining a club !!
Who is your club?Team Sky?

Sunderland Supporter

oldwelshman wrote:

I this a wind up ?
I like the coment third level club run, 22mph av on flat and 18mph uphills !!!
Look forward to eeing you in the pro peloton soon if you do at those speeds at club run level three. I am sure many beginners will read that and really look forward to joining a club !!
Who is your club?Team Sky?

almost................its Team Pie in the Sky....!!

jgsi

I have to agree... when you start bandying about mph figures and of course it's only for the 3rd bunch etc etc that goes off on a Sunday morning... it's hardly good pr to encourage the real beginner to think about club membership.
It may make you feel good about yourself, but....

oldwelshman

JGSI wrote:

I have to agree... when you start bandying about mph figures and of course it's only for the 3rd bunch etc etc that goes off on a Sunday morning... it's hardly good pr to encourage the real beginner to think about club membership.
It may make you feel good about yourself, but....

I took the comment with a pinch of salt lol it cannot be a serious quote, there is no way they average 18mph uphills, unless they mean a moderate fly over or possibly a 1% incline being classed as a hill .

Ringo 68

I have got to admit, I saw the average speeds being quoted earlier in the thread and decide that club riding wasn't for me.

jgsi

Ringo 68 wrote:

I have got to admit, I saw the average speeds being quoted earlier in the thread and decide that club riding wasn't for me.

Plenty to choose from on the Wirral... if you aint sure which one... you can always ride to
http://www.eurekacyclistscafe.co.uk/

and see who is about

Ringo 68

JGSI wrote:

Ringo 68 wrote:

I have got to admit, I saw the average speeds being quoted earlier in the thread and decide that club riding wasn't for me.

Plenty to choose from on the Wirral... if you aint sure which one... you can always ride to
http://www.eurekacyclistscafe.co.uk/

and see who is about

Cheers for the link. I did actually go past Eureka yesterday in the car and thought about dropping in.
I have no excuse not to join a club though I would like to get a bit fitter/stronger before I do.

DavidJB

That quoted hill speed is utter bs...end of.