Breakfast? and fuel in general

tmsbird

Hi everybody just wondering what you do about breakfast before a ride. Most of my free time is early in the morning but I don't like to get up eat breakfast (muesli) and the ride for 2 or 3 hours on a full stomach and getting up even earlier to eat then hang around for an hour before going seem boring.
I'm fairly new to long distances and I'm training up for the dragon ride so I'm experimenting with fueling for longer rides. so any advice around what and when to eat would be useful.
Thanks in advance

t.m.h.n.e.t

75g porridge + cinnamon and a splash of maple syrup - 7days a week (this is my first breakfast)

Cinnamon + Raisin Bagel + whole earth choccy spread | Banana | Raspberry tea (second)

Lunch: Often rice/pasta in assorted guises - pretty light as I swim 3-4 afternoons a week.



**What works for me may not work for you,what works for you may not work for me. Nobody can experiment with your body,better than you**

springtide9

You seem to know your choices

I tend to find that getting up and eating a smaller than usual breakfast works best for me; the first 30 mins is a little uncomfortable (and you have to take your time)... but after that the discomfort passed and you are good to go.

'Generally' on rides 3+hrs, I'll eat roughly once per hour (or half 'unit' per 30 mins). But what I eat does depend on how hard or easy the ride is.

Your choice if you prefer real food or 'synthetic energy'.

I personally prefer the 'synthetic' energy bars - mainly because they can sit in the cupboard for months at a time; a bunch of them can get stuffed into a hot sweaty jersey for several hours, and what's not eaten can be put back in the cupboard to be consumed later.

The easier the ride - I'll eat less. The harder, I might have also carry 'shot blocks' (alternative to gels) and might have one even on a 2+ hr ride. I will tend to mix and match what I take as you get fed up of the same stuff.
**When and what I eat is generally done on 'feel' (with the aim of not waiting until it's too late)**

I'm not organised enough to take real food, but if I had more time this would be preferable.

cyco2

tmsbird wrote:

I don't like to get up eat breakfast (muesli) and the ride for 2 or 3 hours on a full stomach

Well that ones sorted.

getting up even earlier to eat then hang around for an hour before going seem boring.

Have you thought about some sort of entertainment then

TKF

Porridge doesn't leave me feeling full. Certainly not enough to need an hour to let it go down!

Recently discovered Oatland crispy nutty seed bites which are nice to nibble on too.

ShutUpLegs

A binana

anto164

TBH, as long as i have a good dinner the night before, i don't tend to eat before riding in the morning.

Maybe a large glass of orange juice and perhaps a piece of toast if i can manage it.

I prefer to eat after about 30 minutes on the bike, just take a few fruit musli bars that i can snack on when i feel like it.

klep

For shorter rides (40-50 mile) I dont eat big breakfast.

Usually something like this:
1 banana
1 orange
1 apple or 2 kiwi's
1 slice of toast with honey
1 glass of tomato juice
1 cup of rosehip tea with 2 teaspoons of sugar
water

This gives plenty of carbs for a short ride but doesnt give me the feeling I'm stuffed.

For longer rides I wake up earlier so the food can rest a bit before I hit the road.
That breakfast is quite the same as the one for short rides but with a higher quantity. So little more fruit, more toast or I ditch the toast and eat some oats with creamy quark.

mcp73

I think we all tend find out through experience what works best for ourselves. For any ride under three hours I am fine with a mug of coffee and generic cornflakes or toast. If I'm attempting a longer distance I'll load up on oats and Golden syrup! I don't think breakfast is that important though (for shorter rides - under 30 miles (well, at least in my limited experience)) if you eat sensibly as a rule. I take Soreen Malt Loaf and Jelly Babies with me for anything that means 4 hours or more riding, and any longer rides usually mean a cake stop.

Rigged

Interestingly, there's actually a growing volume of evidence in support of the benefits that can be had from exercise whilst fasting, specifically with regard to how the body recovers from exercise whilst fasting. Have a read of this if it interests you and follow some of the links to the papers that produced the findings if you're in doubt.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting- ... z1rr2SXCyo

It's certainly an interesting concept that some exercise without nutrition is more beneficial than always being well fuelled.

dave25

I need a big breakfast, or even wait until after lunch before I ride, otherwise I start to feel really sickly, really fast.

team47b

Half the people on the forum believe you need to add fuel to ride and the other half believe you should use your stored food to fuel your ride.

Half the people are overweight and half the people aren't.

I actually think that the percentages are actually very different to 50/50 but just attempting politeness!

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

75g porridge + cinnamon and a splash of maple syrup - 7days a week (this is my first breakfast)

Cinnamon + Raisin Bagel + whole earth choccy spread | Banana | Raspberry tea (second)

Lunch: Often rice/pasta in assorted guises - pretty light as I swim 3-4 afternoons a week.

**What works for me may not work for you,what works for you may not work for me. Nobody can experiment with your body,better than you**

Looks like a good diet T.M.H.N.E.T, what do you eat the rest of the day? Not stalking, just interested

EleventhSprocket

Rigged wrote:

Interestingly, there's actually a growing volume of evidence in support of the benefits that can be had from exercise whilst fasting, specifically with regard to how the body recovers from exercise whilst fasting. Have a read of this if it interests you and follow some of the links to the papers that produced the findings if you're in doubt.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting- ... z1rr2SXCyo

It's certainly an interesting concept that some exercise without nutrition is more beneficial than always being well fuelled.

I no longer even contemplate any exercise whilst fasting. I've tried early morning running before breakfast and it just doesn't agree with me. Fuel=energy. I appreciate it is each to their own though, and whislt training on an empty stomach might have its benefits, it's something I can't/won't do.

A typical breakfast for me is porridge and a banana. I'll take a flapjack and a couple of gels on longer rides (3+hours).

t.m.h.n.e.t

team47b wrote:

Half the people on the forum believe you need to add fuel to ride and the other half believe you should use your stored food to fuel your ride.

Half the people are overweight and half the people aren't.

I actually think that the percentages are actually very different to 50/50 but just attempting politeness!

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

75g porridge + cinnamon and a splash of maple syrup - 7days a week (this is my first breakfast)

Cinnamon + Raisin Bagel + whole earth choccy spread | Banana | Raspberry tea (second)

Lunch: Often rice/pasta in assorted guises - pretty light as I swim 3-4 afternoons a week.

**What works for me may not work for you,what works for you may not work for me. Nobody can experiment with your body,better than you**

Looks like a good diet T.M.H.N.E.T, what do you eat the rest of the day? Not stalking, just interested

Homemade recovery shake

Dinner isn't strict really but I try to eat a range of different things. I do rely on multivits (perhaps it's feelgood factor taking them) as I am a vegetable hater. Also avoid overly processed crap that comes in boxes. Fresh ingredients are win and even a muppet like me can work a fan oven

After dinner (within few hours) weetabix or yoghurt.

---

I don't drink,smoke,do drugs: But 1 take-away a week does no harm

GoldenBear

If I'm riding in the morning I don't eat breakfast, just have a banana as I set off then eat something every 40-60 mins.

BelgianBeerGeek

What you might find is this:
As you get into cycling (this is road beginners, right?) you will be hungrier and naturally eat more.
When you progress, increasing your mileage etc, this will ease as your body gets better at storing and using energy.
Apart from longer, quicker rides you won't need much more food than you generally get from a normal, balanced diet.
That's my experience anyway. I often won't eat before a ride, but eat on the way round. Bananas, malt loaf, that sort of thing.

BelgianBeerGeek

Oh, forgot to add that having something shortly after a ride can be massively beneficial. Milkshake, fruit, toast, whatever suits you.

simon_e

A couple of recent threads that might help:

viewtopic.php?f=40020&t=12838140
viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12838127

andrewjoseph

With regards to exercise after fasting (riding with no breakfast). From what I have read previously, this is something you on an infrequent basis, to 'reset' your body's glycogen storage level.

However, the riding should be easy but should last longer than half an hour and no more than 1-1/2 - 2 hours. You shouldn't make yourself feel faint. after the ride you refuel normally.

The analogy I've read is that it is like reseting a battery's full/empty level. you drain a battery completely so it remembers what empty is, and then fully charge it.

ChrisSA

I'll happily swim or run first thing without breakfast, but I've never been awake enough to cycle first thing.

I always fuel (museli then toast) well before a ride. 30 minutes before minimum. Then I'll probably empty the fridge when I get home.

My rides are 2 x 1 hour in the week, then a long (4hr min) at the weekend. Throughout the ride I'll drink every 20 minutes or so. Currently training for IM, so getting the body used to the intake. I find I can eat non-stop all day long at the moment.

tmsbird

Thanks everybody. went out today with breakfast but about an hour before. did 40 miles but starving when I got back.
Thanks for all the answers

simon_e

tmsbird wrote:

Thanks everybody. went out today with breakfast but about an hour before. did 40 miles but starving when I got back.
Thanks for all the answers

Hope you enjoyed it. I would recommend that you don't rely solely on a pre-ride snack to fuel you for a 40 mile ride, especially if it's a particularly hard or hilly training ride.

neeb

Rigged wrote:

Interestingly, there's actually a growing volume of evidence in support of the benefits that can be had from exercise whilst fasting, specifically with regard to how the body recovers from exercise whilst fasting. Have a read of this if it interests you and follow some of the links to the papers that produced the findings if you're in doubt.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting- ... z1rr2SXCyo

It's certainly an interesting concept that some exercise without nutrition is more beneficial than always being well fuelled.

There's a lot of bollox on that website - the guy has an agenda, i.e. selling his books and his advertiser's products. Not to say that some of what he says isn't sound advice, but it's not objective and balanced, and it's very much geared towards the fad-orientated pseudo-scientific outlook of his followers.

Similarly the cited scientific papers may be sound, but they are not intended by their authors to be taken in isolation as lifestyle guides.

garethjohn

More out of habit or laziness than anything else i have no brekkie for my 10mi commute and then have something like beans on toast after a couple of hours. Before a longer ride on the weekend and i'd get up earlier and have some pancakes with syrup, you could make them the night before and just toast em in the morning

t.m.h.n.e.t

neeb wrote:

Rigged wrote:

Interestingly, there's actually a growing volume of evidence in support of the benefits that can be had from exercise whilst fasting, specifically with regard to how the body recovers from exercise whilst fasting. Have a read of this if it interests you and follow some of the links to the papers that produced the findings if you're in doubt.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting- ... z1rr2SXCyo

It's certainly an interesting concept that some exercise without nutrition is more beneficial than always being well fuelled.

There's a lot of bollox on that website - the guy has an agenda, i.e. selling his books and his advertiser's products. Not to say that some of what he says isn't sound advice, but it's not objective and balanced, and it's very much geared towards the fad-orientated pseudo-scientific outlook of his followers.

Similarly the cited scientific papers may be sound, but they are not intended by their authors to be taken in isolation as lifestyle guides.

You are spot on. Pay a little more attention to marksdailyapple and you will see that really,like Sean Croxton and others he is nothing but a snake oil salesman. Why would a so-called health guru need a purposely built store to sell "supplements"? The diet (Mark Sissons is often noted to be podgy and shows signs of steroid use) is clearly lacking something if this is the case.. Balance perhaps?

---

viewtopic.php?f=20024&t=12832033

He is a very funny chap

Rigged

neeb wrote:

Rigged wrote:

Interestingly, there's actually a growing volume of evidence in support of the benefits that can be had from exercise whilst fasting, specifically with regard to how the body recovers from exercise whilst fasting. Have a read of this if it interests you and follow some of the links to the papers that produced the findings if you're in doubt.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting- ... z1rr2SXCyo

It's certainly an interesting concept that some exercise without nutrition is more beneficial than always being well fuelled.

There's a lot of bollox on that website - the guy has an agenda, i.e. selling his books and his advertiser's products. Not to say that some of what he says isn't sound advice, but it's not objective and balanced, and it's very much geared towards the fad-orientated pseudo-scientific outlook of his followers.

Similarly the cited scientific papers may be sound, but they are not intended by their authors to be taken in isolation as lifestyle guides.

Absolutely.

I didn't say I agreed, I was just highlighting another approach to nutrition and gave a starting point for people's own reading.

alihisgreat

Rigged wrote:

neeb wrote:

Rigged wrote:

Interestingly, there's actually a growing volume of evidence in support of the benefits that can be had from exercise whilst fasting, specifically with regard to how the body recovers from exercise whilst fasting. Have a read of this if it interests you and follow some of the links to the papers that produced the findings if you're in doubt.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting- ... z1rr2SXCyo

It's certainly an interesting concept that some exercise without nutrition is more beneficial than always being well fuelled.

There's a lot of bollox on that website - the guy has an agenda, i.e. selling his books and his advertiser's products. Not to say that some of what he says isn't sound advice, but it's not objective and balanced, and it's very much geared towards the fad-orientated pseudo-scientific outlook of his followers.

Similarly the cited scientific papers may be sound, but they are not intended by their authors to be taken in isolation as lifestyle guides.

Absolutely.

I didn't say I agreed, I was just highlighting another approach to nutrition and gave a starting point for people's own reading.

Googled that guy, he used to be an ironman triathlete so obviously it worked for him! finished 4th in the 1982 ironman world championship!

I'm not sure if i'd trust the scientific basis of his work though.. he says he has a pre-med background and a degree in biology.. but that's not necessarily relevant at all.

and its relatively easy to bullshit about this kind of stuff just from reading and quoting quite basic academic papers... taking the content of of context of course.

and anyway... i thought that if you ran too much of a deficit on calories the body just goes into starvation mode and starts storing fat when you do eat again? so how can fasting be beneficial?

Rigged

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Rigged wrote:

neeb wrote:

Rigged wrote:

Interestingly, there's actually a growing volume of evidence in support of the benefits that can be had from exercise whilst fasting, specifically with regard to how the body recovers from exercise whilst fasting. Have a read of this if it interests you and follow some of the links to the papers that produced the findings if you're in doubt.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting- ... z1rr2SXCyo

It's certainly an interesting concept that some exercise without nutrition is more beneficial than always being well fuelled.

There's a lot of bollox on that website - the guy has an agenda, i.e. selling his books and his advertiser's products. Not to say that some of what he says isn't sound advice, but it's not objective and balanced, and it's very much geared towards the fad-orientated pseudo-scientific outlook of his followers.

Similarly the cited scientific papers may be sound, but they are not intended by their authors to be taken in isolation as lifestyle guides.

Absolutely.

I didn't say I agreed, I was just highlighting another approach to nutrition and gave a starting point for people's own reading.

Googled that guy, he used to be an ironman triathlete so obviously it worked for him! finished 4th in the 1982 ironman world championship!

I'm not sure if i'd trust the scientific basis of his work though.. he says he has a pre-med background and a degree in biology.. but that's not necessarily relevant at all.

and its relatively easy to bullshit about this kind of stuff just from reading and quoting quite basic academic papers... taking the content of of context of course.

and anyway... i thought that if you ran too much of a deficit on calories the body just goes into starvation mode and starts storing fat when you do eat again? so how can fasting be beneficial?

I don't have a medical/dietary/nutritional background so not going to pretend I know the answer. I suspect the duration of the fasting is the determining factor. Traditional fasting or severe calorie restrictions tend to be for sustained periods over weeks. This approach is more about exercising on an empty stomach without breakfast or having not eaten much/anything for 24 hours rather than maintaining a longer period of starvation. Presumably the body's response to short-term hunger and long-term starvation differs regarding how it stores and releases energy.

I actually stumbled across the article from following Adam Bornstein, from Livestrong, on Twitter. I'm a big fan of a lot of the articles he produces/references and this in particular was one that caught my eye as something a bit alternative that I hadn't seen before.

springtide9

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Rigged wrote:

neeb wrote:

Rigged wrote:

Interestingly, there's actually a growing volume of evidence in support of the benefits that can be had from exercise whilst fasting, specifically with regard to how the body recovers from exercise whilst fasting. Have a read of this if it interests you and follow some of the links to the papers that produced the findings if you're in doubt.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting- ... z1rr2SXCyo

It's certainly an interesting concept that some exercise without nutrition is more beneficial than always being well fuelled.

There's a lot of bollox on that website - the guy has an agenda, i.e. selling his books and his advertiser's products. Not to say that some of what he says isn't sound advice, but it's not objective and balanced, and it's very much geared towards the fad-orientated pseudo-scientific outlook of his followers.

Similarly the cited scientific papers may be sound, but they are not intended by their authors to be taken in isolation as lifestyle guides.

Absolutely.

I didn't say I agreed, I was just highlighting another approach to nutrition and gave a starting point for people's own reading.

Googled that guy, he used to be an ironman triathlete so obviously it worked for him! finished 4th in the 1982 ironman world championship!

I'm not sure if i'd trust the scientific basis of his work though.. he says he has a pre-med background and a degree in biology.. but that's not necessarily relevant at all.

and its relatively easy to bullshit about this kind of stuff just from reading and quoting quite basic academic papers... taking the content of of context of course.

and anyway... i thought that if you ran too much of a deficit on calories the body just goes into starvation mode and starts storing fat when you do eat again? so how can fasting be beneficial?

I personally don't bother reading any 'facts' from 'fitness websites' that has a primary focus on selling you their product based on their 'advice'. Call me syndical, but there is a conflict of interest. But I am sure there is some 'truth' in what's being stated, but it's not easy to pick out for facts from the fiction.
Think most people understand that highly processed foods are not great and we should be eating more natural foods and cooking from fresh produce. Put it does seem laughable that a site that seems to focus on telling you to eat natural products, then tries to sell you highly processed 'supplements' (I haven't read any of the text btw)

And looking at these...
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/category ... summaries/
I see lots of "fat to ripped" stories, but no success stories from any athletes.

From personal experience.... I was on a low carb diet for approx 6 months (low GI) while exercising regularly (5 days/week). The first 3 months I was really strict on eating cabs (virtually no carbs). I did loose loads of weight, but fitness progress was slow going (especially for stamina). It was only when I introduced more carbs did my stamina really improve.
But I will admit that I do believe carbs are a key to my weight gain/loss. I have always has a low(ish) fat diet - so that's never been a factor. But I also believe that carbs are a great fuel (for me anyway).
I'm sure the starvation/fasting before rides are a way to force your body into being efficient at burning fat (which it store lots of naturally) rather than relying purely on carbs. I guess the idea is that you have both sources of energy. But I'm no doctor or nutritionist.

But back to the OP (and we are in the Beginners section), riding at this level is about making the ride enjoyable... if your main ride is on the weekend - then it's not going to be a pleasant ride if you are 'fasting' to improve performance.
For me, any targeted weight loss due to a reduction in calories I will do during the week rather than on my main weekend ride.

kbmack

Two bowls of porridge, two bananas, three slices of toast, two-three flapjacks, a pint of orange juice, three-four cups of tea, two boiled eggs for breakfast before a ride.

On the ride, I might have 4-5 slices of fruitcake and maybe 5-6 energy bars and two litres of energy drink.

For post ride, I will probabaly have 3-4 portions of salmon, 500g of pasta and maybe half a bag of rice.

Rigged

kbmack wrote:

Two bowls of porridge, two bananas, three slices of toast, two-three flapjacks, a pint of orange juice, three-four cups of tea, two boiled eggs for breakfast before a ride.

On the ride, I might have 4-5 slices of fruitcake and maybe 5-6 energy bars and two litres of energy drink.

For post ride, I will probabaly have 3-4 portions of salmon, 500g of pasta and maybe half a bag of rice.

Bloody hell, how far are you riding?!