Headwinds - more strength/power required?

brabus

Hi

I used to mtn bike and got into road cycling in the last year. I used to fly up the hills off road but wasnt so quick on the downhills ...a pattern i am repeating on the road!

I am 11 stone 5'8" so a good bit smaller than my cycling buddies! I ride a boardman team carbon with a compact 50/34 and 12/25. I live in the west of scotland with some pretty hilly routes!

I find on the steep hills i spin up these relatively easily in the 34/25 well ahead of my friends who have been road cycling for years and are out of the saddle puffing and panting! once we get over the top its a different story they take off downhill and i cant keep up! my legs can be spinning in 50/12 and i cant seem to go any faster! it could be weight, gravity, gearing, poor technique who knows!

We have been doing 45mile rides mostly and i have noticed i really struggle to keep up with them on the flat or slight inclines especially when cycling into a strong headwind. not sure if i just dont have enough power in my legs or what?! :?

have read some info on cycling into headwinds with the usual advice - get aero, lower gear to keep spinning etc.

What i am after is some advice as to how i can train to improve my cycling on the flat and especially into strong headwinds? Is it a case of just getting out there facing into the wind keeping it in a high gear and grinding away until my spindly legs start to build some muscle....or are there other things i should be doing also?

all advice gratefully received.

j_marvin

There's a couple of points that you might be missing.

Firstly, when going downhill, sometimes pedalling is not the fastest way. Beyond a certain point, simply getting your head down is the fastest, and most energy efficient option. If you're feeling brave, shift your bum forward off the saddle, sit on your top tube and stick your chin and hands in a tight group on your handlebars. If you're in your 50/12 already, then this is the best way to get some speed.

Another thing to try if your mates are cruising past you - sit behind them. If you can get your head low when you're sat on the wheel of one of your pals coming down hill, you will find that you might even need to brake softly to stay behind them.

Final thing to try is if you are really spinning up the 50/12, perhaps get yourself a 25-11 cassette - or even a 53tooth chainring.

With headwinds, leg strength does become a factor. A big favourite for people looking to improve leg strength is overgeared intervals - try finding a shallow hill or a flat section that takes about 2/3 minutes to ride, and stick it in a gear so as to make it tough to cycle at about 50rpm. Grind it out - preferably in the saddle. Spend a minute or so undergearing so as to spin at a high (100rpm?) cadence, and repeat.

The other thing with headwinds is that your gear choice needs to be smart for a number of reasons. The main thing is adjusting quickly to the variation in wind speed - so lets say you've find the right gear when the wind is slight, but don't adjust quick enough when it really picks up. It's almost the equivalent of a tough acceleration in still conditions - it hurts.

Beyond that, stay out of the wind. Make sure you're behind the biggest of your mates, and keep your head down. Stay in the drops - it will make a difference.

SBezza

No you don't need more strength to ride into a headwind, just accept that into a headwind you will go slower for a similar effort. If you want to go faster (into a headwind, uphill, on the flat etc) you need to get more powerful, and that takes training hard at tempo level and up to threshold level.

It doesn't need to be low geared intervals, unless you spend alot of time at those cadences. Cadence isn't the magic bullet, good riders can put out similar powers at 70rpm - 100+ rpm, just ride whatever is comfortable for yourself. When riding hard just remember to keep the strain on the chain and not slack off.

As for going downhill, your weight shouldn't be an issue, just get into an aero position (head up though), and take a good line through any corners. I have had 40mph + on 50/12 before I gave up pedalling, that is pretty fast for alot of hills.

thegibdog

Sounds like you need to put a bigger effort in initially in order to stay on the wheel of your larger mates, going into the red if you have to, because once you're dropped you'll find it very difficult to get back on if they are more powerful riders.

wthrelfall

Blimey, that's weird.. I'm about the same size and weight as you, ride a team carbon boardman and live on the west coast of scotland!

I actually fare pretty well in the wind, I just get in the drops, keep low, slide up the saddle a bit, and pedal fast whilst trying to mentally pedal smooth circles and keep the power right through 360 degrees of the pedal stroke. it's definately a different feeling technique to climbing, although if you've ever climbed a not so steep hill with a high cadence in a TT for e.g. it's maybe a similar thing.. hard to put into words, but spend enough time riding in the omnipotent Scottish headwind and you'll soon find the right technique!

I find it very hard to keep my effort down in the wind, probably a very good way of building strength!

brabus wrote:

Hi

I used to mtn bike and got into road cycling in the last year. I used to fly up the hills off road but wasnt so quick on the downhills ...a pattern i am repeating on the road!

I am 11 stone 5'8" so a good bit smaller than my cycling buddies! I ride a boardman team carbon with a compact 50/34 and 12/25. I live in the west of scotland with some pretty hilly routes!

I find on the steep hills i spin up these relatively easily in the 34/25 well ahead of my friends who have been road cycling for years and are out of the saddle puffing and panting! once we get over the top its a different story they take off downhill and i cant keep up! my legs can be spinning in 50/12 and i cant seem to go any faster! it could be weight, gravity, gearing, poor technique who knows!

We have been doing 45mile rides mostly and i have noticed i really struggle to keep up with them on the flat or slight inclines especially when cycling into a strong headwind. not sure if i just dont have enough power in my legs or what?! :?

have read some info on cycling into headwinds with the usual advice - get aero, lower gear to keep spinning etc.

What i am after is some advice as to how i can train to improve my cycling on the flat and especially into strong headwinds? Is it a case of just getting out there facing into the wind keeping it in a high gear and grinding away until my spindly legs start to build some muscle....or are there other things i should be doing also?

all advice gratefully received.

Garryboy

Yep me too!

I def struggle with headwinds, to be honest I think its partially mental for me anyway - I kind of convince myself that I'll go slower in headwind, which in turn seems to make me put in less effort.

wthrelfall wrote:

Blimey, that's weird.. I'm about the same size and weight as you, ride a team carbon boardman and live on the west coast of scotland!

I actually fare pretty well in the wind, I just get in the drops, keep low, slide up the saddle a bit, and pedal fast whilst trying to mentally pedal smooth circles and keep the power right through 360 degrees of the pedal stroke. it's definitely a different feeling technique to climbing, although if you've ever climbed a not so steep hill with a high cadence in a TT for e.g. it's maybe a similar thing.. hard to put into words, but spend enough time riding in the omnipotent Scottish headwind and you'll soon find the right technique!

I find it very hard to keep my effort down in the wind, probably a very good way of building strength!

brabus wrote:

Hi

I used to mtn bike and got into road cycling in the last year. I used to fly up the hills off road but wasnt so quick on the downhills ...a pattern i am repeating on the road!

I am 11 stone 5'8" so a good bit smaller than my cycling buddies! I ride a boardman team carbon with a compact 50/34 and 12/25. I live in the west of scotland with some pretty hilly routes!

I find on the steep hills i spin up these relatively easily in the 34/25 well ahead of my friends who have been road cycling for years and are out of the saddle puffing and panting! once we get over the top its a different story they take off downhill and i cant keep up! my legs can be spinning in 50/12 and i cant seem to go any faster! it could be weight, gravity, gearing, poor technique who knows!

We have been doing 45mile rides mostly and i have noticed i really struggle to keep up with them on the flat or slight inclines especially when cycling into a strong headwind. not sure if i just dont have enough power in my legs or what?! :?

have read some info on cycling into headwinds with the usual advice - get aero, lower gear to keep spinning etc.

What i am after is some advice as to how i can train to improve my cycling on the flat and especially into strong headwinds? Is it a case of just getting out there facing into the wind keeping it in a high gear and grinding away until my spindly legs start to build some muscle....or are there other things i should be doing also?

all advice gratefully received.

a_n_t

Strength and power are 2 different things. You want more power.

brabus

thanks

all excellent advice which i will try out! was out yesterday strong headwinds got low on the bike tucked in behind the others and it was def an improvement!

how do i go about training for more power?

thanks

whojanicanackerov

Get rid of the compact buy and double chain set.
Push Bigger gears to build strength on the flat and on the hills.soft tapping those pedals won't build good leg strength.
Get on the drops more and I`m sure you will become better all round.

bristolpete

The local pro advice is get on the drops, push a bigger gear, spin through it rather than hammer it. Makes sense.

Flipping awful winds out there today.

oldwelshman

whojanicanackerov wrote:

Get rid of the compact buy and double chain set.
Push Bigger gears to build strength on the flat and on the hills.soft tapping those pedals won't build good leg strength.
Get on the drops more and I`m sure you will become better all round.

I guess the firt part of your reply was in jest ?

whojanicanackerov

Well if you want it to be a jest then it can be.
I have gone down the route of a double and so far it's been more suitable for me.
I do understand that everybody is different and that they produce different levels of power on differing ways.
I'm faster up hills,on the flats,well just faster all round.
I may go compact again sometime who knows what the future brings.
But right now soft tapping isn't on the menu.

oldwelshman

whojanicanackerov wrote:

Well if you want it to be a jest then it can be.
I have gone down the route of a double and so far it's been more suitable for me.
I do understand that everybody is different and that they produce different levels of power on differing ways.
I'm faster up hills,on the flats,well just faster all round.
I may go compact again sometime who knows what the future brings.
But right now soft tapping isn't on the menu.

Soft tapping in a head wind on a 50 x 12 ? wow well done many pros use compact to race and I dont see themsoft tapping much.

racingcondor

50-15 (87.6 inches) and 53-16 (87.1 inches) are both around 23mph at 90rpm (23.3 and23.5mph to be exact) so in most cases the compact vs standard argument is moot (personal preference aside). If you can hold a cadence of 120 on a 50-12 then you're doing 39mph which is time to tuck in on a descent anyway.

Descending I'd advise getting lower and tucking in. Descending is a combination of riding skills and confidence, I'm 5'11" and around 150lbs and seem to out descend most people (sadly while I descend like a big guy I also climb like one).

Unfortunately the answer to how to keep up on the flat is a longer term plan. Ride. Lots.