Hubs

bristolpete

Asprilla wrote:

Update: I've placed an order.

H Plus Son Archetype rims on Chris King R45s with 24 / 28 CX-Rays. All in black.

3-4 week wait for the rims. Will be 50g heavier than the same build with Velocity A23s but I think these rims look fantastic, and that's what it's all about, isn't it?

Great news. I am mulling a pair of A23 with Chris King hubs, same spoke combo. Just looked at the H Plus website and yes, I concur they look smoking but think I will settle for the A23. Now to decide which clinchers !

asprilla

bristolpete wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Update: I've placed an order.

H Plus Son Archetype rims on Chris King R45s with 24 / 28 CX-Rays. All in black.

3-4 week wait for the rims. Will be 50g heavier than the same build with Velocity A23s but I think these rims look fantastic, and that's what it's all about, isn't it?

Great news. I am mulling a pair of A23 with Chris King hubs, same spoke combo. Just looked at the H Plus website and yes, I concur they look smoking but think I will settle for the A23. Now to decide which clinchers!

Seen numerous recommendations for Vittoria Open Pave CG Evos which only come in a 24mm width as the best combination with A23s so I've just ordered some off ebay.

kfinlay

I'm looking at speccing up a set of wheels and and wanted Gigantex rims/cx ray spokes but can't decide on hubs???
They are to go on my EPS so I wanted some good quality brand name hubs that aren't silly money but still lightish (320g for both or less). Derek at Wheelsmith recommends the Novatecs even though he does more expensive hubs but just feel they would let the rest of the bike down even though they perform well - maybe I'm being tarty and shallow but I want the whole bike to have quality named parts (currently groupset is Record/Super Record, cockpit is Deda Zero 100)

Chris King R45 - love em but need special tools to maintain and a bit over budget but might be able to stretch to them
Tune Mig/Mag - Light these too but apparently can be awkward to service and a 'bit delicate'?
Carbon Ti - Can't find much about these really
Extralight SX/SLX - just too expensive.
C-4 - seem top be well regarded over the pond but not seen much about them and still top of budget.
Novatec - Cheap, easy to get parts, can have ceramic bearings fitted if required just 'no bling'

Am I being silly? what's your opinions?

bristolpete

Asprilla wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Update: I've placed an order.

H Plus Son Archetype rims on Chris King R45s with 24 / 28 CX-Rays. All in black.

3-4 week wait for the rims. Will be 50g heavier than the same build with Velocity A23s but I think these rims look fantastic, and that's what it's all about, isn't it?

Great news. I am mulling a pair of A23 with Chris King hubs, same spoke combo. Just looked at the H Plus website and yes, I concur they look smoking but think I will settle for the A23. Now to decide which clinchers!

Seen numerous recommendations for Vittoria Open Pave CG Evos which only come in a 24mm width as the best combination with A23s so I've just ordered some off ebay.

Noted, however, is the idea with an a23 rim not to get a 23mm tyre in there riding round akin to a tub? Does a 24mm not make the tyre light bulb shaped again ? Having googled that tyre, cant seem to find anything other than green striped ? Nice though, very Belgian !

asprilla

bristolpete wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Update: I've placed an order.

H Plus Son Archetype rims on Chris King R45s with 24 / 28 CX-Rays. All in black.

3-4 week wait for the rims. Will be 50g heavier than the same build with Velocity A23s but I think these rims look fantastic, and that's what it's all about, isn't it?

Great news. I am mulling a pair of A23 with Chris King hubs, same spoke combo. Just looked at the H Plus website and yes, I concur they look smoking but think I will settle for the A23. Now to decide which clinchers!

Seen numerous recommendations for Vittoria Open Pave CG Evos which only come in a 24mm width as the best combination with A23s so I've just ordered some off ebay.

Noted, however, is the idea with an a23 rim not to get a 23mm tyre in there riding round akin to a tub? Does a 24mm not make the tyre light bulb shaped again ? Having googled that tyre, cant seem to find anything other than green striped ? Nice though, very Belgian !

That's what I though although apparently 24mm is a bit of a sweet spot. It's probably rubbish, but in the absence of any other recommendations I'm going for it.

Alas the tyres only come in green which will ruin the whole black / white vibe going on with my bike but I'm willing to live with it.

bristolpete

Asprilla wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Update: I've placed an order.

H Plus Son Archetype rims on Chris King R45s with 24 / 28 CX-Rays. All in black.

3-4 week wait for the rims. Will be 50g heavier than the same build with Velocity A23s but I think these rims look fantastic, and that's what it's all about, isn't it?

Great news. I am mulling a pair of A23 with Chris King hubs, same spoke combo. Just looked at the H Plus website and yes, I concur they look smoking but think I will settle for the A23. Now to decide which clinchers!

Seen numerous recommendations for Vittoria Open Pave CG Evos which only come in a 24mm width as the best combination with A23s so I've just ordered some off ebay.

Noted, however, is the idea with an a23 rim not to get a 23mm tyre in there riding round akin to a tub? Does a 24mm not make the tyre light bulb shaped again ? Having googled that tyre, cant seem to find anything other than green striped ? Nice though, very Belgian !

That's what I though although apparently 24mm is a bit of a sweet spot. It's probably rubbish, but in the absence of any other recommendations I'm going for it.

Alas the tyres only come in green which will ruin the whole black / white vibe going on with my bike but I'm willing to live with it.

Funny thing, but I ran these on open pro some 3 years back and were great. The green stripe is a 'bike fans' thing. Whilst it wont match the colour way, the nodding appreciation from other riders is worth it as you storm about your local roads with a fake Flanderian accent shouting "the wind, it make you strrrrroooonnnnngggg!"

APIII

kfinlay wrote:

I'm looking at speccing up a set of wheels and and wanted Gigantex rims/cx ray spokes but can't decide on hubs???
They are to go on my EPS so I wanted some good quality brand name hubs that aren't silly money but still lightish (320g for both or less). Derek at Wheelsmith recommends the Novatecs even though he does more expensive hubs but just feel they would let the rest of the bike down even though they perform well - maybe I'm being tarty and shallow but I want the whole bike to have quality named parts (currently groupset is Record/Super Record, cockpit is Deda Zero 100)

Chris King R45 - love em but need special tools to maintain and a bit over budget but might be able to stretch to them
Tune Mig/Mag - Light these too but apparently can be awkward to service and a 'bit delicate'?
Carbon Ti - Can't find much about these really
Extralight SX/SLX - just too expensive.
C-4 - seem top be well regarded over the pond but not seen much about them and still top of budget.
Novatec - Cheap, easy to get parts, can have ceramic bearings fitted if required just 'no bling'

Am I being silly? what's your opinions?

My opinion is that you want the Chris Kings (because you listed them first), so why not get them? The thing about special tools for maintenance - I hardly ever touch my hubs, so I wouldn't worry about it. They probably won't need looking at for years.

daviesee

bristolpete wrote:

Noted, however, is the idea with an a23 rim not to get a 23mm tyre in there riding round akin to a tub? Does a 24mm not make the tyre light bulb shaped again ? Having googled that tyre, cant seem to find anything other than green striped ? Nice though, very Belgian !

Thread detour -
IIRC the Paves may be 24mm but they are an odd profile in that they look like 23s but ride like 25s.
I may recall incorrectly but I do know that they run smooth. Very smooth. :P

bristolpete

daviesee wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Noted, however, is the idea with an a23 rim not to get a 23mm tyre in there riding round akin to a tub? Does a 24mm not make the tyre light bulb shaped again ? Having googled that tyre, cant seem to find anything other than green striped ? Nice though, very Belgian !

Thread detour -
IIRC the Paves may be 24mm but they are an odd profile in that they look like 23s but ride like 25s.
I may recall incorrectly but I do know that they run smooth. Very smooth. :P

Cool. We can all monster about like Tony Martin now !

kfinlay

APIII wrote:

kfinlay wrote:

I'm looking at speccing up a set of wheels and and wanted Gigantex rims/cx ray spokes but can't decide on hubs???
They are to go on my EPS so I wanted some good quality brand name hubs that aren't silly money but still lightish (320g for both or less). Derek at Wheelsmith recommends the Novatecs even though he does more expensive hubs but just feel they would let the rest of the bike down even though they perform well - maybe I'm being tarty and shallow but I want the whole bike to have quality named parts (currently groupset is Record/Super Record, cockpit is Deda Zero 100)

Chris King R45 - love em but need special tools to maintain and a bit over budget but might be able to stretch to them
Tune Mig/Mag - Light these too but apparently can be awkward to service and a 'bit delicate'?
Carbon Ti - Can't find much about these really
Extralight SX/SLX - just too expensive.
C-4 - seem top be well regarded over the pond but not seen much about them and still top of budget.
Novatec - Cheap, easy to get parts, can have ceramic bearings fitted if required just 'no bling'

Am I being silly? what's your opinions?

My opinion is that you want the Chris Kings (because you listed them first), so why not get them? The thing about special tools for maintenance - I hardly ever touch my hubs, so I wouldn't worry about it. They probably won't need looking at for years.

I really like the CKs but for price/weight/bling I really think the Tune MIG/MAGs are better but I've read a few tings about the bearings and being a bit delicate. Although I've heard they have sorted these issues recently too. I can't really get much opinions from the groups I ride with as they are on factory builds - Ksyriums, Fulcrums and RS80s. Will have to have another chat with Derek at Wheelsmith too I think.

thegreatdivide

Mentioned this in another thread but I was helping a friend film at the Scottish Bike Show last weekend and we interviewed Derek. I grabbed him later for a face-to-face plus a really good look at all of the wheels he offered as I’m really interested in getting him to make up a pair of 50mm in the summer but I was humming and hawing about what to get built. I’m now 100% set on black Novatec hubs with black CX Ray spokes, red nips and 50mm carbon clinchers in 3k weave. Firstly because Derek really rates the Novatecs, secondly the weight difference between all of the hubs isn’t that major and lastly (and purely for aesthetic reasons) the 3k weave looks much better than the UD. The big ‘blocks’ of matte carbon on the UDs don’t show up in his photos.

Derek’s just outside Stirling so it’s worth popping over to see him.

kfinlay

thegreatdivide wrote:

Mentioned this in another thread but I was helping a friend film at the Scottish Bike Show last weekend and we interviewed Derek. I grabbed him later for a face-to-face plus a really good look at all of the wheels he offered as I’m really interested in getting him to make up a pair of 50mm in the summer but I was humming and hawing about what to get built. I’m now 100% set on black Novatec hubs with black CX Ray spokes, red nips and 50mm carbon clinchers in 3k weave. Firstly because Derek really rates the Novatecs, secondly the weight difference between all of the hubs isn’t that major and lastly (and purely for aesthetic reasons) the 3k weave looks much better than the UD. The big ‘blocks’ of matte carbon on the UDs don’t show up in his photos.

Derek’s just outside Stirling so it’s worth popping over to see him.

Yeah I was at the bike show too - think I saw you guys at the Ronde stand when I was talking to one of the guys about the gorgeous Cielo frame they had. Derek remembered me as the one who couldn't make his mind up with my wife telling me to just buy them! I asked Derek straight what hubs he would recommend if not considering the costs and he said Novatec as he just can't see past them - serviceable, light, cheap, good quality and you can put ceramic bearings in them if you wish. I'll probably go with white hubs, black spokes and red nips as it will be a good match for my bike IMO. He is only 30 miles from me so easy to go for a chat but he is also happy to chat on the phone too. He did say that if I was considering putting decals on the rims then not to use cut vinyl as it tends to end up peeling quite easily due to the speed the rims spin at. I was considering this as printed decals tend to be pretty expensive, especially if a custom design. Will get around to making my mind up and putting an order in this weekend I reckon.
Good luck with yours!

thegreatdivide

The Ronde stand – bike and Rapha heaven ;-)

Please put some photos up when you’ve got them Kev. Would be good to see them with the EPS

kfinlay

Trigger pulled, Derek was prepping for the Outdoors show this weekend at SECC so we agreed on the phone and I've confirmed by email. Derek is to confirm everything by return email including price and lead time - can't wait! Will update pics too as there's been a few changes to my bike since my siggy pics.
Ronde? totally agree, think I'll pop along to one of their Saturday rides - more a social thing than training but the coffee at the shop is so worth it!

SirUlrich

I pulled the trigger on a set of a23's laced to Novatech hubs early this week based on a chat with derek - he really seems to rate the novatechs! Will be able to give a bit of a ride report when they arrive in a week or two.

Should make for an interesting change from my current ksyrium elites 8)

dennisn

I'll cast a vote for either DA or Record hubs. As good if not better than most hubs on the market and priced a bit easier on the wallet than some of the speciality manufacturers. DA's freehub is quiet as a mouse. Personally I see no reason to look at anything else. You're going to get great hubs at a good price from very reputable companys that stand by their products. Plus you can actually buy parts for them.

kfinlay

Agree Dennis, both very very good hubs but the Campags are only really available in 32 hole and thats not what I want. The reason Derek recommends the Novatec Superlights is they are good quality, have good bearings that are easily replaced/upgraded, parts are also available, they are light at 308g for Campag versions and they good good to build wheels with - he has 27 years experience so I trust his judgement plus I know how shallow my pockets are :oops:

desweller

Do you know what model of Novatec he's using? Is it the same one that Planet X used in the Model B a couple of years ago (F162 / F262 for Campag / Shimano)?

kfinlay

I think it's 291/582 IIRC

desweller

Nice one - looks pretty similar internally to the PX units. The wider DS flange should make for a stronger wheel though.

loukest

Hi,

Forgive me for chipping in at this late stage in the conversation but for once! I think i can add a qualified opinion! About three weeks ago i took delivery of my new wheels. IRD 30mm rims, cx ray spokes and red chris hubs. I of course went for red nips. I looked at so many options and took advice from the chap who built them for me. I have mixed feelings.

Lets start with looks. 10/10. They look absolutely beautiful, the hubs made my eyes water, they scream quality and as for the noise, i can't believe that people can moan at that! It's more of a purrrrrrr. I've had hope hubs and fulcrum hubs previously, both ok but nothing like the R45's. I would prefer the rims in matt black but that's personal preference and my only slight niggle with looks.

Ride, also full marks. They feel stiff without being harsh, no flex at all when out of the saddle and rolling resistance is notably better than my racing 3's which these replaced. They feel fast. I don't think this is the placebo effect but to be honest, i don't really care if it is, i love riding them. I will caveat that with the fact that due to an injury, i have done relatively little in terms of miles.

The mixed emotions are due to the fact that they have not stayed perfectly true. I've been very careful with them and have not hit any holes etc but after my first short ride they needed to go back to be trued. The wheel builder was very good about this and turned it around very quickly including arranging courriers etc. I've been out on two short rides since getting them back and again, they've come out of true. I don't think this is me being obsessive about it, i doubt any wheel is absolutely perfect but this is notably out. Having paid 800 pounds for the wheels i'm reluctant to start plauing with them myself, simply because i don't feel i should have to.

The last comment is on the rims. The join is noticable, you can feel it with your nail and hear is on the blocks.

In summary, because the wheelbuilder has been so good about helping sort this out, it wouldn't stop me recommending him, he is hugely knowledgeable about the products and has given me some great advice. I would probably go for a different set if rims if i could start again but to be honest, the hubs could have come on wooden rims and i would still have been over the moon with my wheels.

I hope this helps, any questions please let me know.

Tom

desweller

If they're going out of true then there's a fault with the initial build.

loukest

DesWeller wrote:

If they're going out of true then there's a fault with the initial build.

Don't disagree with that, tonight was the first time i have been out on them since they were returned. They'll be back in the box tomorrow.

dennisn

loukest wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

If they're going out of true then there's a fault with the initial build.

Don't disagree with that, tonight was the first time i have been out on them since they were returned. They'll be back in the box tomorrow.

Are you on the heavy side? What are the spoke counts F & R? Hard to believe the front is giving you that much trouble. Fronts usually do very well even with very low spoke counts.

loukest

dennisn wrote:

loukest wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

If they're going out of true then there's a fault with the initial build.

Don't disagree with that, tonight was the first time i have been out on them since they were returned. They'll be back in the box tomorrow.

Are you on the heavy side? What are the spoke counts F & R? Hard to believe the front is giving you that much trouble. Fronts usually do very well even with very low spoke counts.

Hi, in am on the heavy side, i weigh just under 15 st. I'm 6'3 and whilst slightly over weight, i'd say that most of is strength rather than tonnage. Not sure if this has an effect on the wheel or whether it's simply the weight. The problems are with the rear wheel, not the front. The spoke count is 32 28 as recommended by the wheel builder who incidentely has already been discussed in this post, it was derek at wheelsmith. I've been reluctant to mention the name as i really don't want to put people off. He's a good guy and i've not read anything even slightly negative in the past.

ugo.santalucia

I have used Novatec hubs for a few builds now and they are good quality. In line with the rest of the market and pound for pound better than other pricier ones. The lightest front (291, I think) is a bit underengineered, but the rest of the range is good. Some are as good as the 3 x more expensive DT Swiss.
However, if I had to invest big bucks in a wheelset for touring or for big mileage, thinking ahead at re-rims, rebuilds etc. I would still go for a more durable set, something like Dura Ace or Record or Royce.

That said, most people change wheels every couple of years, therefore Novatec hubs are excellent

dennisn

loukest wrote:

dennisn wrote:

loukest wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

If they're going out of true then there's a fault with the initial build.

Don't disagree with that, tonight was the first time i have been out on them since they were returned. They'll be back in the box tomorrow.

Are you on the heavy side? What are the spoke counts F & R? Hard to believe the front is giving you that much trouble. Fronts usually do very well even with very low spoke counts.

Hi, in am on the heavy side, i weigh just under 15 st. I'm 6'3 and whilst slightly over weight, i'd say that most of is strength rather than tonnage. Not sure if this has an effect on the wheel or whether it's simply the weight. The problems are with the rear wheel, not the front. The spoke count is 32 28 as recommended by the wheel builder who incidentely has already been discussed in this post, it was derek at wheelsmith. I've been reluctant to mention the name as i really don't want to put people off. He's a good guy and i've not read anything even slightly negative in the past.

Not sure what to say now. You're not overweight. Seems like the only thing left would be the spokes and nipples. I usually use straight gauge(14) spokes(3X) on my wheels and I'm "heavier than I should be" but not a ton. Works well for me and they stay true. As for nipples I'm gonna assume your's are alloy, since they are red. Could be an issue. Sometimes wheels are a tough nut to figure out. Wish I could be of more help.

loukest

I had a chat with Derek today. Once again, he's been very good about this. He assures me that this is the first return of the wheels built this year. He has asked for the wheel back and is going to change the rim. I'll let you know how it goes.

dennisn

loukest wrote:

I had a chat with Derek today. Once again, he's been very good about this. He assures me that this is the first return of the wheels built this year. He has asked for the wheel back and is going to change the rim. I'll let you know how it goes.

Sounds like he is going to make it right. Not much else you can ask for. In a perfect world everything works, well, perfectly but we are humans and far from perfect. Hope it all works out.

ugo.santalucia

loukest wrote:

I had a chat with Derek today. Once again, he's been very good about this. He assures me that this is the first return of the wheels built this year. He has asked for the wheel back and is going to change the rim. I'll let you know how it goes.

It can happen. Now imagine the journey you'd have to go through had it been a set of factory wheels? Returns, stock problems, delays in the replacement/supply chain.
Being able to talk to guy who built them is already a big leap forward! It's his reputation and he will do everythnig to make you happy... for Wiggle you're just a number