Average sportive rider - how to improve

Brian B

Been cycling seriously on the road for just over a decade and I am 40 years of age. I have been improving every year and can get around an average 100mile sportive in 6hrs and 8hrs for the marmotte. I was wondering how I can improve bearing in mind that due to work, family cannot get out with a club and do solo rides mostly. Sometimes get out with my mate if time allows and luckily he pushes me on the hills.

I think I am pretty experienced in long hilly routes and have done a lot of climbing abroad as well. This year I have been over the 100-130mile ride mark several times and not noticed any energy dips apart from my first century back in early march. I think I have my nutrition sorted now and stick with my routine - gels, bars and electrolyte drink

I have lost a lot of weight over the years so cannot loose any more as pretty lean at present. Really been improving on my climbing over the years and can hold my own with the best sportive riders

I do spinning in my garage and also do recovery rides after sportives and big milage runs.

Any tips would be welcome.

twotyred

I'd say you're far from average and I'd be very happy with your level of performance however to squeeze the last few % out of yourself then I'd recommend getting a coach. This made the biggest difference to my performance lifting me from just scraping into the top 50% of a sportive field into the top 25-30%.

bigpikle

+1

A quality coach that can really understand your strengths and weaknesses and guide your efforts for maximum impact is a great idea. Has made a big difference for me already this year, without breaking the bank.

amaferanga

A coach for riding sportives?

styxd

Any tips would be welcome.

Sportives arent a race. Just take your time and enjoy the ride (and the food stops)

celbianchi

amaferanga wrote:

A coach for riding sportives?

+1. Beggars belief.

sfichele

celbianchi wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

A coach for riding sportives?

+1. Beggars belief.

Why? If the guys wants to push himself and challenge what he can achieve why shouldn't he?

+1. For a coach if that's what he wants

Tom Butcher

Yes it's his own money why not - personally I wouldn't but then I wouldn't get a coach for amateur racing either.

amaferanga

What riding do you do apart from long rides? Do you only do long rides, a bit of spinning an recovery rides? Do you ever do threshold intervals or VO2max intervals? If not then try these before p!ssing £50 a month or more on a coach.

glasgowbhoy

Hi Brian,

Glad to hear that the training is going well this year.

As you know I started training in the winter to race this year and was out on a lot of the reliability rides and long cold steady runs through Jan/Feb. What I've really noticed has brought on my fitness and subsequently got me the results are the interval work and threshold sessions, either on group training rides, through and off chaingangs, turbo sessions (sufferfest videos on miserable days) or hill repeats. Training with 1st 2nd and 3rd Cat riders has also been a real eye opener but I'm riding way beyond the levels of last year and now only need 3 points for my 3rd Cat licence after just 2 races (10th & 4th place) with the 4ths this spring.
Think it's time to really push on the hill repeats and threshold stuff indoor and outdoor or get out on the chaingangs/APRs. Falkirk (starts at larbert) on a Thursday evening isn't too far for you and has 3 groups of varying ability.

bigpikle

whats wrong with a coach for 'sportives'?

'Sportives' can include riding plenty of big events all over Europe, riding up and down mountains all day long, or for days on end in some cases, so whats wrong with wanting to get fit enough to enjoy them, maybe achieve some challenging time goals, set some good times up big cols or successfully complete (and enjoy) day after day in the mountains or on classic rides across N Europe....

My coaching this year will cost less than many people spend on fancy kit to try and go faster and in just a few months has helped me to much bigger performance gains than anything I could buy for 10x the price

twotyred

+1 bigpikle.

I can't believe the snooty attitude of some on here to sportive riders. Some of us are not talented enough to be competitive in road races but we are dedicated to making the most of what talent we have and pushing our own limits. Personally, training 8-10 hours a week only to finish mid pack in a Cat4 race is not my idea of fun. I'd rather finish anywhere in a big event like the Marmotte or better still finish it in a faster time than I did last year or get that gold time I'm after. What I've spent on coaching in the last year is less than a lot on here would think nothing of spending on a pair of deep section carbon wheels and its a damn site more effective.

bigpikle

twotyred wrote:

+1 bigpikle.

I can't believe the snooty attitude of some on here to sportive riders. Some of us are not talented enough to be competitive in road races but we are dedicated to making the most of what talent we have and pushing our own limits. Personally, training 8-10 hours a week only to finish mid pack in a Cat4 race is not my idea of fun. I'd rather finish anywhere in a big event like the Marmotte or better still finish it in a faster time than I did last year or get that gold time I'm after. What I've spent on coaching in the last year is less than a lot on here would think nothing of spending on a pair of deep section carbon wheels and its a damn site more effective.

...or simply no interest in road races...

I like a bit of CX racing, the odd TT, but what gets me grinning from ear to ear is getting out and riding in the mountains or the cracking countryside. A week riding the sunny mountains is all the motivation I need for day in day out winter riding in the UK.

And its not about talent either. Some guidance, structure and quality feedback is essential to maximising talent and developing. Some people know it all already of course, so wouldnt benefit from a coach

Brian B

Thanks for all replies

Amaferanga - Sportives and long hilly routes are what I do mostly and train towards. In sportive's I am only going for as good a time as I can and generally give 100% and each year trying to improve. I also do hill reps close to home when time is at a minimum. Have been doing threshold training targetting about the 85% maximum heart rate zone.

Still reckon a few sessions with a coach might get me that improvement that I am looking for. I had not considered it actually as I thought that I would not be taken seriously given my goals.

What I do know is that while I have doing a lot of climbing I notice that on long stretches of flat (over 20miles) that seems to take more out of me than a few serious hills and takes me a few mins to get my climbing legs back on when the roads goes up. This might be an area for me to improve on.

Glasgowbhoy - I have been doing the hill repeats as you had said this to me last year in France that you had noticed an big improvement on yourself by doing them. I know a few lads at the Falkirk circuit who have asked me to join them and may give it a go but honestly did not think myself good enough. If you have improved on last year then you must be going well as you had some pretty impressive times at home and the Marmotte. Good for you as you said on this forum you were heading down the racing route and your aim was to get quicker.

RoadMeridaBen

celbianchi wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

A coach for riding sportives?

+1. Beggars belief.

+1 might aswell throw your money away

twotyred

RoadMeridaBen wrote:

celbianchi wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

A coach for riding sportives?

+1. Beggars belief.

+1 might aswell throw your money away

Come on then tell me why or are you just trolling?

bigpikle

Just ignore them...

They are simply people who believe other peoples goals and ideas are less worthy than theirs :roll:

amaferanga

There's no snooty attitude from me, but given the goal of a sportive is purely a personal challenge then I don't get why you would need someone else to tell you how to get faster. Why not challenge yourself further instead by learning how to train? Training and racing every week is a hard act to balance, whereas training with a few target events spread through the summer should be much easier to plan for.

Out of curiosity, for those with a coach, how much are you actually paying and how much 1-to-1 contact do you have with your coach? Proper coaching for racing is expensive, but I guess maybe sportive-type coaching is a lot cheaper.

celbianchi

Ok - I'll shift my position a little, my opinion would be that coaching for non competitive sport would not be for me, however laying that to one side and accepting everyone has different goals, then given the position that the OP finds himself now then to improve upon his current fitness then a decent coach would indeed be able to progress him.

My point of view that coaching for non racing would not be for me is unchanged, however if people have the money and inclination to invest in their hobby then why not.
I guess it is not wholly dis-similar to most gym goer's who use a personal trainer, much of that will not be for any competitive reason.

amaferanga

Bigpikle wrote:

Just ignore them...

They are simply people who believe other peoples goals and ideas are less worthy than theirs :roll:

Aren't they just people with an opinion that's different to yours?

RoadMeridaBen

amaferanga wrote:

There's no snooty attitude from me, but given the goal of a sportive is purely a personal challenge then I don't get why you would need someone else to tell you how to get faster. Why not challenge yourself further instead by learning how to train? Training and racing every week is a hard act to balance, whereas training with a few target events spread through the summer should be much easier to plan for.

Out of curiosity, for those with a coach, how much are you actually paying and how much 1-to-1 contact do you have with your coach? Proper coaching for racing is expensive, but I guess maybe sportive-type coaching is a lot cheaper.

Hit the nail on the head there, arent sportives expensive enough without adding to it?
I personally think a coach is more for when you've reached what you think is the limit of what you can do alone
not when you are starting out and can easily improve through just riding the bike more or at a high intensity.

spokegeezer

RoadMeridaBen wrote:

celbianchi wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

A coach for riding sportives?

+1. Beggars belief.

+1 might aswell throw your money away

I reckon all you need to improve is in this excellent book, from training, understanding the same, to nutrition and stretching guides etc etc. It really does have it all. A coach is a total waste of money he/she won't be able to tell you anymore than is in this and many other books. Good Luck.
http://www.cyclosport.org/30-Sep-2008/p ... tives.html

bigpikle

wow...if you think following a standard generic plan from a book is going to meet the individual needs of every rider out there, with differing time, natural talents, interests, strengths and weaknesses then good luck with that! I have that book read it cover to cover many times when I was riding towards my first century, and still have it on the shelf, but its of little use now. If that one book was the solution to everyones training needs then I'd doubt the author would have such a successful individual coaching practise either....

I have a coach - started this year, after a good 2 years making solid progress. I pay for one 'package' of their coaching services, that is the same package I could choose whether my goals were riding the biggest sportives Europe has to offer or wanting to be a cat 1/2 road racer or top 10 tester. I'm buying time and expertise at the level I choose to afford. I get a 100% personalised plan session by session, week by week, updated every few weeks based on my progress, with weekly contact by phone and email and a review of the data gathered from every single one of my rides, for less than the price of a quality set of wheels per annum. The plan gives me a detailed weekly schedule based around my specific (unusual) working hours, with power targets for every ride, based on my goals and focus areas. I get structure, advice, feedback and challenge that I didnt have when I read the conflicting advice recommended in books and the internet.

To be honest I didnt know if it would work for me, but I'm amazed and slightly surprised how much progress I've made. In 3 months I've added 10% to my FTP in less hours per week than I was doing before, made big strides in other areas of my riding and perhaps best of all, have confidence in a solid longer term plan that will help me achieve what I want to. I dont have to spend time constantly reading, wondering, planning, changing my mind and generally not being sure whether what I'm doing is the best use of my training time. Its not wildly different to what I had been doing, but the differences are enough that it has made a significant difference.

I love building my knowledge, and still scour countless resources for ideas and experiences, and will continue to as it's in my personality to do so, but I also know I already have a solid plan to follow that is getting good results, so dont need to continually question and second guess what I'm doing. If I was just tooling around local sportives looking for a day out posing on a fancy bike, then I wouldnt invest in coaching, and I doubt I'd invest as much time and energy in cycling either.

Its not for everyone and I wouldnt even recommend it to a lot of cyclists I know, but why call using a coach a waste of money for a non-racer? In reality, most people entering a race have little or no chance of winning against a quality field, so why bother with a coach there either? We do it as we just have a drive to improve regardless of what the target is. Sportive, road race, MTB, cyclocross, endurance riding, TT, track riding - what does it matter?

spokegeezer

Bigpikle wrote:

wow...if you think following a standard generic plan from a book is going to meet the individual needs of every rider out there, with differing time, natural talents, interests, strengths and weaknesses then good luck with that! I have that book read it cover to cover many times when I was riding towards my first century, and still have it on the shelf, but its of little use now. If that one book was the solution to everyones training needs then I'd doubt the author would have such a successful individual coaching practise either....


I love building my knowledge, and still scour countless resources for ideas and experiences, and will continue to as it's in my personality to do so, but I also know I already have a solid plan to follow that is getting good results, so dont need to continually question and second guess what I'm doing. If I was just tooling around local sportives looking for a day out posing on a fancy bike, then I wouldnt invest in coaching, and I doubt I'd invest as much time and energy in cycling either.

You see, you've hit the nail on the head yourself. Whilst your "investing" your dosh on a coach your putting more effort in. I suspect if you found a different motivator other than spending money on a coach you would see the same return for the same effort.

The original post was about improving his sportives, hence referall to something useful, unlike wild claims of improving FTP with LESS training.

amaferanga

Bigpikle wrote:

I have a coach - started this year, after a good 2 years making solid progress. I pay for one 'package' of their coaching services, that is the same package I could choose whether my goals were riding the biggest sportives Europe has to offer or wanting to be a cat 1/2 road racer or top 10 tester......

]

Who is this coach that can turn anyone into a 1st/2nd Cat or a top ten tester?

Mettan

Brian - have you ever considered doing some evening club TT's?? (if road racing is not your bag). To some extent they provide something more 'concrete' to aim for as opposed to doing Sportives year after year - you might find a local club TT circuit that's raced on 3 or 4 times in a season - so, plenty of improvements/times etc to aim for as the season progresses. Just a thought.

rick_chasey

amaferanga wrote:

Bigpikle wrote:

I have a coach - started this year, after a good 2 years making solid progress. I pay for one 'package' of their coaching services, that is the same package I could choose whether my goals were riding the biggest sportives Europe has to offer or wanting to be a cat 1/2 road racer or top 10 tester......

]

Who is this coach that can turn anyone into a 1st/2nd Cat or a top ten tester?

Presumably this guy.

bigpikle

I didnt say they could turn me into one, I just said the plan would be the same regardless of my goals...oh were it possible

spokegeezer

Bigpikle wrote:

I didnt say they could turn me into one, I just said the plan would be the same regardless of my goals...oh were it possible

So the "plan" is the same for all clients regardless of ability? Interesting..........

mamba80

Firstly, i dont have a coach as i feel i know more than they do, so wouldnt listen to them
BUT why would a coach for Sportif or any other riding be less advantageous than one for RR or TT ing?
I dont get it, like saying you should nt have a decent bike or wheels because you dont race??!!
Its not as if anyone on here is chasing a pro contract.

Some people need more motivation than others and each get it from different sources.

If you ve feel you ve progressed as far as you can on your own, then try a coach, the £600 min/per year, is possibly a fraction of the cost of your last over seas sportif.

Maverick54

It beggars belief that some people are so quick to shoot others down when the question of 'how to improve' comes up. Having a coach is all about learning to train more effectively, given time and talent constraints. It has nothing to do with simply training harder. That's ridiculous. What you choose to do events wise is completely irrelevant as a decent coach will tailor your training to fit whatever goals you have, be it sportives, TT's or wanting to move up into the next cat, etc. Just because your goal isn't the same (or carry the same stigma) as someone elses doesn't mean that getting a coach is a waste of money. In my experience, having a coach meant that my training was alot more structured and had meaning, and that in turn meant that I was alot more motivated to get out and train. So for that reason alone it was worth the money. Plus, the performance benefits were much more noticable than when I didn't have a coach, with the same amount of training. The simple thing is that YOU will know if having a coach is making a difference or not pretty soon after starting with one. The good ones will get you in for a ramp test so they know where you are starting from, and then can use this as a reference for improvement.
Good luck with whatever you choose!