Me again!

sharpo88

Hey guys, I have took your advice and uploaded a new questionnaire on survey monkey, for those of you who have filled out my last one, thank you! if you have a spare minuet could you fill this one out as the questions are slightly different and there are only 5 of them!

Ill completely understand if you have already answered the last one if you cant be bothered!

here is the link

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/N7VS7HY

Thanks again

cooldad

Nope, done, and lied a lot.
Please tell me you are either in primary or speshul school.

You can have all my minuets, far prefer some noisy rock.

cooldad

ps
For people who have no idea, or indeed concern for what you are banging on about, you might want to tell people why, what etc.

t0pc4t

survey done, still not interested in a steel hardtail, especially a rigid one, sorry

IBISMojoHDamon

t0pc4t wrote:

survey done, still not interested in a steel hardtail, especially a rigid one, sorry

Ha ha ha ha +1....

Greer_

t0pc4t wrote:

survey done, still not interested in a steel hardtail, especially a rigid one, sorry

+2 :roll:

sharpo88

thanks for filling it out. I am not set on designing a steel Hardtail, I am just trying to judge what kind of riders prefer what materials, and what they are open too.

and as for you cool dad, stop wasting both our time by posting pointless replies, if you are not interested please refrain from posting. you seem to just be striving for attention, I am not on here to start arguments.

cooldad

I have plenty of time. I post here for fun. You ask pointless questions, I'll give you pointless answers.
You, on the other hand, seem to be posting pointless surveys, without mentioning why, what for etc.

sharpo88

I have previously stated why and what it is for.

And that explains a lot about you, too much time on your hands I on the other hand don't have time for you so please keep your pointless opinions to yourself.

supersonic

If people want to comment on the survey, please do so constructively.

If you don't like it, don't fill it in, simple.

cooldad

OK Constructive.
Do you expect people to have read your previous thread/remember your previous thread/search for your previous thread?
To get sensible data from a survey you need to put some serious thought and effort into it. What you want to find out, how, why, the demographics etc. Otherwise the info you get out will be as useful as the garbage I put in.

I am now being helpful. As you will see from the people who gave you sensible answers, it is rather obvious that, for some reason, you are trying to find out how many people would like a steel rigid MTB.
The answer is not very many.

I actually have one - a 1988 Rockhopper. It's pretty sh1t TBH.

I much prefer my aluminium full sus.

sharpo88

thanks for your input, wasn't that easy. I am finding out what kind of mountain bikers prefer what materials, and it has not been designed yet, this is the basis and justification for me ruling out rigid forks, or steel frames, I need evidence to back up everything that I say. I cant just say, suspension is needed on the bike because it adds comfort, greater control, then leave it at that. I need primary research in these areas from people who do it, not just taken from some internet source. this is more credible.

supersonic

Steel frames are coming to an end on MTBS. Why? They are just too heavy! Aluminium frames for all uses are lighter, cost less - and the notion that steel is more comfy is a myth.

Carbon is becoming king. Allows even stronger and lighter frames than aluminium, and prices are tumbling.

Front suspension is a must for me on most trails, rear however, is not.

cooldad

On the other hand, steel is the easiest material for beardy sandal wearing types to work with in sheds. So for tiny volumes with no special gear, (like autoclaves), it is probably the only practical option.
For anything else see above.

Chinley Churner

supersonic wrote:

Steel frames are coming to an end on MTBS. Why? They are just too heavy! Aluminium frames for all uses are lighter, cost less - and the notion that steel is more comfy is a myth.

Carbon is becoming king. Allows even stronger and lighter frames than aluminium, and prices are tumbling.

Front suspension is a must for me on most trails, rear however, is not.

True about steel frames unfortunately although there is something special about the ride of a high-end one though... I can't quite put my finger on it but my Sanderson Life always puts a massive grin on my face. I wouldn't say front suspension is a must... I ride the Sanderson with an On-One rigid carbon fork as a 69-er and have a whole lot of fun on it.. it certainly makes me a better rider when I go back to the sprung bike.

sharpo88

well out of 11 responses so far to the survey, 6 people are open to the rigid forks for off road use, also people have quite a positive view on steel frames.

Don't be bashing the beardy sandal wearing types either! its people like that who started out in their garage who helped create the whole mountain biking industry!

you guys should watch a documentary called klunkers if you haven't seen it already, I feel it has changed my perspective on mountain biking in general!

supersonic

I've seen it - I've also seen how people made steam engines, but the world moves on.

sharpo88

I just feel some of the love for just riding and being with friends has been replaced with the need for super precise technical things. I understand that these make your riding easier, but I feel some of the fun has been lost. I think I am talking to the wrong people about this though, I've noticed the users on pinkbike seem more open to this notion, I don't know whether its to do with the larger base of "freeriders" compared with here there are a lot of XC guys, but that's what my survey is for

oodboo

supersonic wrote:

I've seen it - I've also seen how people made steam engines, but the world moves on.

+1 for progress

cooldad

I've seen it.
In fact at about the same time we used to get kids little wheel bikes and modify them into 'BMX' bikes (before BMX was officially invented.) For MTB we just used to turn the bars on our racing bikes upside down and go for it.
Times change. Trails are slightly gnarrlier than the fireroads in Klunkerz.

cooldad

ps Known fact in marketing - what people say they want, and what they actually buy are two different things.
Hence engineers and designers - to create what you didn't even know you wanted/needed.

supersonic

sharpo88 wrote:

I just feel some of the love for just riding and being with friends has been replaced with the need for super precise technical things. I understand that these make your riding easier, but I feel some of the fun has been lost. I think I am talking to the wrong people about this though, I've noticed the users on pinkbike seem more open to this notion, I don't know whether its to do with the larger base of "freeriders" compared with here there are a lot of XC guys, but that's what my survey is for

I just don't have fun adding 2lbs of weight to my frame (or more), and then paying more for it!

Fun is subjective, and is not material related, the notion is absurd.

felix.london

filled in your survey although I'm with cooldad - why do you want this info, what are you hoping to gain etc. A bit of insight would surely result in more bods filling in the form?

...and why oh why would I want to go back to my 1990 Ridgeback? I'm happy as a pig in $hit on my 2006 Rockhopper (with 2011 forks)

sharpo88

I have already stated why I am doing it, read previous post on this thread, it is for me to back up in my dissertation a ruling out of rigid forks, steel or whatever materials I chose not to use.

bennett_346

sharpo88 wrote:

I've noticed the users on pinkbike seem more open to this notion, I don't know whether its to do with the larger base of "freeriders" compared with here there are a lot of XC guys, but that's what my survey is for

Pinkbikers are all hippies and photographers so no surprise there.

Torres

Just done it.

Something which you may find useful: you don't mention anything about design or geometry. For me the material is irrelevant; a crap frame is a crap frame regardless of the material it's made out of. For a lot of people weight and cost are important, which for years has ruled out carbon and steel as options for the majority. Now carbon is becoming more accessible; however irrespective of cost or weight I wouldn't have one if it didn't fit or I didn't like the geometry.

The two frames that for me have had the geometry completely sorted and I loved to ride were both steel (inbred 29er and NS core.) The weight penalty was definitely worth how "right" they felt, and in all fairness the core was only so heavy because it was built to be hammered.

bennett_346

Torres wrote:

Just done it.

Something which you may find useful: you don't mention anything about design or geometry. For me the material is irrelevant; a crap frame is a crap frame regardless of the material it's made out of. For a lot of people weight and cost are important, which for years has ruled out carbon and steel as options for the majority. Now carbon is becoming more accessible; however irrespective of cost or weight I wouldn't have one if it didn't fit or I didn't like the geometry.

The two frames that for me have had the geometry completely sorted and I loved to ride were both steel (inbred 29er and NS core.) The weight penalty was definitely worth how "right" they felt, and in all fairness the core was only so heavy because it was built to be hammered.

Sometimes a bike being heavier can make it feel better to ride. If it feels bombproof i feel better about riding it harder.

sharpo88

Thanks for the input, I agree with you on the core, Its what I am riding just now and I have never felt more at home. it is heavy as, but it is still manageable on the ascents, and you feel far more at home on the way down! I have already studied the geometries in some depth, there is hard evidence written in books about this, This survey is more for what the riders look for or feel about certain things. from the study so far, I have noticed the majority of freeriders are happy riding steel frames, but the XC guys are against it, feeling it is outdated and too heavy. so its more for me to justify designing a freeride frame but thanks again for filling it out!

IBISMojoHDamon

sharpo88 wrote:

thanks for filling it out. I am not set on designing a steel Hardtail, I am just trying to judge what kind of riders prefer what materials, and what they are open too.

and as for you cool dad, stop wasting both our time by posting pointless replies, if you are not interested please refrain from posting. you seem to just be striving for attention, I am not on here to start arguments.

+1

Agree entirely.... Attention seeking, pointless, humourless, pedantic replies a 'Cooldad' specialty...

t0pc4t

I don't really have a problem with steel frames Sharpo, I do have a soft spot for Blue Pigs but for me I have to fit riding around a load of other things in my life which means 2 things:

1. I'm fit but I am not that skilled
2. I have very limited time to ride

and that then implies I only really have one bike. So I go full suss because it flatters a less competent rider. Materials are probably a lot less important to me, if the bike I wanted was steel I would not be put off by it, same with carbon, Alu etc

I do actively lust after titanium though but that's a bit of a daydream and from what I read Ti bikes aren't everything they are cracked up to be anyway

Good luck with your project

chez_m356

sharpo88 wrote:

I think I am talking to the wrong people about this though, I've noticed the users on pinkbike seem more open to this notion

you do realise that pinkbike is a predominantly US/Canadian site and this here is UK ? so you shouldn't be too surprised that they are more open to it, good luck competing with the thousands of custom bike builders that are already operating over there, because no matter what ever you are thinking of, one thing is for sure, they are already doing it