Budget day
Comments
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Beer is going up. He didn't mention any increases yesterday but equally chose to gloss over the fact there was already an annual RPI+2% increase in place. Will be heading for £4 a pint in some pubs round here soon. Seems it's one industry they are determined to suffocate.0
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That seems to be a cunning plan used by recent chancellors.
Announce tax rises to happen in the future. We don't feel the immediate impact and he never has to mention it again. :evil:None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
daviesee wrote:That seems to be a cunning plan used by recent chancellors.
Announce tax rises to happen in the future. We don't feel the immediate impact and he never has to mention it again. :evil:
That's fair.
If you have planned expenditure, and suddenly you're hit with a bigger tax bill starting as soon as the chancellor announces it, you might be in difficulty.
This way you get to plan ahead.0 -
I was referring to fuel, VED, alcohol duty etc, etc.Rick Chasey wrote:That's fair.
If you have planned expenditure, and suddenly you're hit with a bigger tax bill starting as soon as the chancellor announces it, you might be in difficulty.
This way you get to plan ahead.
Very few have to make future planning to account for them other than "Feck me, have you seen the price of this these days?".None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:daviesee wrote:That seems to be a cunning plan used by recent chancellors.
Announce tax rises to happen in the future. We don't feel the immediate impact and he never has to mention it again. :evil:
That's fair.
If you have planned expenditure, and suddenly you're hit with a bigger tax bill starting as soon as the chancellor announces it, you might be in difficulty.
This way you get to plan ahead.
When it's contributing to the closure of many businesses though shouldn't a degree of flexibility be utilised?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:This all very weird. Commuting Chat used to be THE home of political bickering. Is this the start of a takeover.
Anyway, there now seems to be a desperate scrabble to kill off the 'Granny Tax' meme before it gets established as 'fact'.
Yeah.
Seems politically mad.
My boss made an interesting point. Between the obscenities he gave the generation argument - pensioners have had it good the whole of their lives - about time they shared some of the burden - especially since the tax allowance has gone up.
He sounds like the man to lap up my 42% idea.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:rjsterry wrote:This all very weird. Commuting Chat used to be THE home of political bickering. Is this the start of a takeover.
Anyway, there now seems to be a desperate scrabble to kill off the 'Granny Tax' meme before it gets established as 'fact'.
Yeah.
Seems politically mad.
My boss made an interesting point. Between the obscenities he gave the generation argument - pensioners have had it good the whole of their lives - about time they shared some of the burden - especially since the tax allowance has gone up.
That'll be apart from a lot of them being able to pay for heating etc, the effects of the Great Depression, the mid 70's and early 80's and 90's depression and a World War and it's aftermath etc."There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."0 -
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As a Pensioner, 'though not a "Grannie", thanks for nothing Gideon. He has already stitched us up with a crafty switch on to C P I instead of the more honest R P I, now whittling away the tax concession to old people
When you add in the mess the NHS is going to be plus the elimination of Social Care with the cuts to Local Government, I can see no reason for us to vote Tory. We vote a lot BTW :x
If you think 'this doesn't bother me', ask yourself who will be collecting the kids from school when 'Grannie' can't afford to run her car, who looks after the kids on school holidays if 'Granddad' has to spend all day waiting at the clinic with 'Grannie'? Reducing the wealth of old people impacts on others in many ways, not all of them obvious. Britain already has a crap pension provision, making it worse in a mad 'race to the bottom' will damage the quality of life in this society. The 'Grey Pound' props up many local businesses, local shops, pubs, hairdressers, tea shops to list some of the more obvious. To stimulate the economy and ensure every pound invested in the programme circulates in the domestic economy, not squirrelled away to prop up some bank's balance sheet, double the O A P!The older I get the faster I was0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:And all the boom years in between?
Hardly "had it good the whole of their lives" though."There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."0 -
Some perspective. You know who to blame. Hint - financial services
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/the-billion-pound-o-gram/Purveyor of "up"
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The so called 'boom years' were always preceded and followed by 'bust years'. I can remember and worked through, cr*p spells in the mid-seventies, early eighties, late eighties/early nineties, T o C, then the current sh*t-fest that started about '05 and is still dragging on. Add in the fraudulent trick pulled by the Treasury in pretending that the price of money is 0.5%! No it isn't! Try buying some. You will be charged 8% if you are a sound business, 9%+ as an individual, even 3% if you are the Treasury! Pensioners, who are often savers, can't switch modest funds out of the country and are simply robbed.
The one thing that has grown in real value over the time I was working is property, but you had to be light-footed and lucky with timing to achieve a real benefit. The wheels are off this at the present. Savings instruments, over the period, benefited those who sold them or those who ran them far more than those who invested in them; an Investment Trust or Equitable Life anyone? If that all sounds bitter, not really, it does vex to see & hear the same old puff pieces emanating from Financial Journalists masquerading as insightful analysis. There have always been snake-oil salesmen, there just seem to be more of them at present and the dissenting voices get drowned out.The older I get the faster I was0 -
Made me giggle anyway.......
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel0 -
The "boom years" were only good for those who had money to invest. The majority didn't. Fact.Rick Chasey wrote:And all the boom years in between?None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
daviesee wrote:
The "boom years" were only good for those who had money to invest. The majority didn't. Fact.Rick Chasey wrote:And all the boom years in between?
*shrugs*
Free education, free healthcare, outrageous property price increases - the longest period of sustained growth ever seen in society.
The years I've been eligible for work have been 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012 > and I had to pay £9k + living costs to go to university (around a £20k debt overall).
The guys a little younger than me are paying the full whack.
The same people who didn't have money to invest have even less money now. That hasn't changed.
Forgive me if I'm not particularly sympathetic.
The economy is 10% smaller than it was before the crash. Pensioners will feel that in their pension. They're in a better position than the 25% of 18-24 who don't even have a job.0 -
Rick I know this is a personal pet hate of yours but you are only looking at it from a short term view, ie 2009-2012.
This is the same as someone looking at 1979-1982 or 1990-1993. They were bad times full of doom & gloom like today. The booms happened after these periods and may happen in a couple of years during which you will benefit.
"Free education, free healthcare," - still exist.
"Outrageous property price increases" - their properties will be taken off them soon to pay for going into homes.
"The longest period of sustained growth ever seen in society" - only good for those that could invest. The majority just got on with it as best they could.
"The guys a little younger than me are paying the full whack" - You mean they are paying their taxes same as the other generations, plus they had to deal with rationing and diseases which are now mostly vaccinated against.
"The same people who didn't have money to invest have even less money now. That hasn't changed." - True. Why wouldn't you be sympathetic to those people.
"The economy is 10% smaller than it was before the crash." - That happens in every crash. There has always been cycles and there always will be. The smart people prepare for the downturn during the growth.
"Pensioners will feel that in their pension. They're in a better position than the 25% of 18-24 who don't even have a job." - A lot of those pensioners have also been unemployed at periods. Or more telling, the wives never worked at all (except raising children), never paid N.I. and are not eligible for the full pension.
Face it. In 45 years time there will be a young whippersnapper complaining about everything and you will be the pensioner. The more things change, the more they remain the same.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
I mean full whack as in £9k fees for university.
Pensioners will soon be the biggest demographic.
Then they'll see they should have treated younger people a little better
. 0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I mean full whack as in £9k fees for university.
Back in the day, only 10% went to Uni.
Pensioners will soon be the biggest demographic.
Wait for the crash when that happens
Then they'll see they should have treated younger people a little better
Vice versa and has always been thus.
It's a Friday and I feel like a debate None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
daviesee wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I mean full whack as in £9k fees for university.
Back in the day, only 10% went to Uni.
Pensioners will soon be the biggest demographic.
Wait for the crash when that happens
Then they'll see they should have treated younger people a little better
Vice versa and has always been thus.
It's a Friday and I feel like a debate
I think you're under-estimating the generation problem.
It's a bigger problem now than it's ever been.
That politicians fear the wrath of pensioners and not young people illustrates the point nicely.
The ageing baby-boomers is a ticking-time bomb.
If you are interested (!) check out Paul Mason's Why it's kicking off everywhere.
It's good.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I think you're under-estimating the generation problem.
I am just having a Friday debate
It's a bigger problem now than it's ever been.
My Generation - The Who. It's not new. The pension funding problem will get out of control though.
That politicians fear the wrath of pensioners and not young people illustrates the point nicely.
Politicians fearing those who actually vote? Who'd have thunk it?
The ageing baby-boomers is a ticking-time bomb.
Pension funding will be a problem. What will it be like when you are a pensioner? Are you going to steal from the youth of tomorrow to protect your future pension? If not, how will you fund your dotage?
If you are interested (!) check out Paul Mason's Why it's kicking off everywhere. It's good
I am just having a Friday debate None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:Pensioners will feel that in their pension. They're in a better position than the 25% of 18-24 who don't even have a job.
Yes, well they should be entitled to something in exchange for having worked their adult lives.
However, the Golden Age of pensioners - those on final salary pension schemes - is coming to an end. The bulk of pensioners around in 10, 20, 30 years from now are going to be considerably less well off than those who are around now.0 -
Greg66 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Pensioners will feel that in their pension. They're in a better position than the 25% of 18-24 who don't even have a job.
Yes, well they should be entitled to something in exchange for having worked their adult lives.
However, the Golden Age of pensioners - those on final salary pension schemes - is coming to an end. The bulk of pensioners around in 10, 20, 30 years from now are going to be considerably less well off than those who are around now.
Both valid points.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Greg66 wrote:Yes. Simple fact is that with a large part of the population ageing, the cost of the NHS is going to cripple the country in years to come.
What you alluding to "Logans run scenario"? Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
daviesee wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I mean full whack as in £9k fees for university.
Back in the day, only 10% went to Uni.
Pensioners will soon be the biggest demographic.
Wait for the crash when that happens
Then they'll see they should have treated younger people a little better
Vice versa and has always been thus.
It's a Friday and I feel like a debate
Back in the day only 10% went to uni, yes, back in the day when the calculation for pension provisions were first being done, life expectancy was a fair bit lower.
Fundamentally, what's the logic behind having a higher allowance for pensioners than for working people, I'm not especially sure I understand it, does the average pensioner have greater financial pressures than the average working family?You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Jez mon wrote:daviesee wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I mean full whack as in £9k fees for university.
Back in the day, only 10% went to Uni.
Pensioners will soon be the biggest demographic.
Wait for the crash when that happens
Then they'll see they should have treated younger people a little better
Vice versa and has always been thus.
It's a Friday and I feel like a debate
Back in the day only 10% went to uni, yes, back in the day when the calculation for pension provisions were first being done, life expectancy was a fair bit lower.
Fundamentally, what's the logic behind having a higher allowance for pensioners than for working people, I'm not especially sure I understand it, does the average pensioner have greater financial pressures than the average working family?
I'd call not having a job a potential financial pressure.0 -
Has anyone else seen the FT research that suggests that the living standards of people in their 60's are currently growing at a faster rate than people in their 20s?
Pensioners have been pretty immune from all cuts so far.
Winter fuel allowance, free bus passes and free TV licences are all untouched by the cuts.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Has anyone else seen the FT research that suggests that the living standards of people in their 60's are currently growing at a faster rate than people in their 20s?
Surely that'll be "....declining less rapidly than those in their 20s....."0
