Budget day
MaxwellBygraves
Posts: 1,353
So, it's budget day. What's the chancellor going to do?
George Osbourne will deliver budget at 12.30, straight after Miliband & Cameron pretend to argue at PMQ's at 12.00.
Not really much to say because I think most of it has been leaked beforehand. :roll:
The main talking point is that Osbourne plans to cut the 50p tax threshold to either 40 or 45p. The Tories are usually pretty astute when it comes to strategy, banking that the other budget measures make up for this, but I think they may have perhaps underestimated public resentment towards this policy (polling pre-budget widely indicating that majority of general public are opposed and even majority of Tory members opposed). We shall see.
As you were, Cake stoppers.
George Osbourne will deliver budget at 12.30, straight after Miliband & Cameron pretend to argue at PMQ's at 12.00.
Not really much to say because I think most of it has been leaked beforehand. :roll:
The main talking point is that Osbourne plans to cut the 50p tax threshold to either 40 or 45p. The Tories are usually pretty astute when it comes to strategy, banking that the other budget measures make up for this, but I think they may have perhaps underestimated public resentment towards this policy (polling pre-budget widely indicating that majority of general public are opposed and even majority of Tory members opposed). We shall see.
As you were, Cake stoppers.
"That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer
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Can guarantee effective tax breaks for small businesses.
Stamp duty will go up too apparently > in a bid to offset the lost revenue from the cut in the 50p tax rate (which, if the figures the treasury have used - it will, and some).0 -
I just wish any politician or commentator who uses the phrase 'hard working families' today got a smack in the face for it.0
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High tax down to 45 % - Political error in my book.
Tax threshold to rise - About time.
Cigs & alcohol to rise - As always.
Petrol to remain the same - Political suicide to up it at this time.
Some kind of property tax for the very wealthy.
Usual ins & outs balancing act finishing on a high note.
The truth (and bad news) will out tomorrow or Friday once accountants and analysts get at the small print.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:
I know *your* answer to that...0 -
Greg66 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:
I know *your* answer to that...
You know Daviesee's too? :P
I was surprised how small the cost was to drop the rate from 50-45.
Around £400m the treasury says. Presumably that's contestable, but still.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Greg66 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:
I know *your* answer to that...
You know Daviesee's too? :P
I was surprised how small the cost was to drop the rate from 50-45.
Around £400m the treasury says. Presumably that's contestable, but still.
Do I? I find it hard to keep track of all the pinkos around here. They tend to blend into a solid wall of malcontentedness after a while :twisted:0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:Greg66 wrote:
Do I? I find it hard to keep track of all the pinkos around here. They tend to blend into a solid wall of malcontentedness after a while :twisted:
We all take our turn to be in a state of malcontent.
At least I put my money where my mouth is and campaign
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Umm.
I seem to have to put mine into the Treasury's coffers.0 -
Greg66 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Greg66 wrote:
Do I? I find it hard to keep track of all the pinkos around here. They tend to blend into a solid wall of malcontentedness after a while :twisted:
We all take our turn to be in a state of malcontent.
At least I put my money where my mouth is and campaign.
Umm.
I seem to have to put mine into the Treasury's coffers.
6/10.
Not bad, little obvious.0 -
The last time the UK had any chance of remaining "developed" i.e. it could pay for a decent education system, health care, infrastructure, blah blah blah the top rate of tax was above 90%. The rich then didn't piss off to Singapore or wherever. If we had a proper progressive tax system now (like that at the time I allude to above) then the nation would be better off, the rich would pay their fair share, and anyone who didn't like it could leave. I am amazed and appalled by commentators who continue to tow the line that we need bankers because of their "contribution to society.". Their tax contribution is woefully inadequate, as well. This should change, and quickly. Dropping high rates of tax is a very dangerous thing to do.0
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He'll do whatever is best for the tory party and the already haves.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
pliptrot wrote:The last time the UK had any chance of remaining "developed" i.e. it could pay for a decent education system, health care, infrastructure, blah blah blah the top rate of tax was above 90%. The rich then didn't wee-wee off to Singapore or wherever. If we had a proper progressive tax system now (like that at the time I allude to above) then the nation would be better off, the rich would pay their fair share, and anyone who didn't like it could leave. I am amazed and appalled by commentators who continue to tow the line that we need bankers because of their "contribution to society.". Their tax contribution is woefully inadequate, as well. This should change, and quickly. Dropping high rates of tax is a very dangerous thing to do.
Must.... not..... bite..... :x0 -
Good summary of what opinion polls say on the budget ideas that have been floating around:
Here's the summary of the findings from the ComRes news release.Raise the starting point of income tax from £7,475 to £10,000
Agree: 81% Disagree: 8%
Older people are more likely to agree than younger people – 87% of people aged 55 and over do so compared with 55% of people aged 18-24. Voters for all three main parties show similar levels of support for this.
Abolish the 50 per cent tax rate on incomes over £150,000
Agree: 21% Disagree: 58%
A majority of Conservative voters (51%) disagree that the 50 per cent tax rate should be abolished, as do 67% of Labour voters and 70% of Lib Dem voters.
Introduce an annual "mansion tax" on properties worth over £2m
Agree: 64% Disagree: 20%
The majority of Conservative voters (59%) agree with an annual "mansion tax" compared with 66% of Lib Dems, and 72% of Labour voters.
Introduce a minimum income tax rate of around 30 per cent, that everyone should pay, regardless of tax reliefs and schemes to reduce tax liability
Agree: 12% Disagree: 63%
Nick Clegg's proposal for a "tycoon tax" is unpopular with supporters of all parties. Liberal Democrat sources were steering journalists to a level for the "tycoon tax" of between 20 and 30 per cent, so we asked about 30 per cent; presumably respondents did not like it because it is higher than the 20 per cent basic rate and they thought it might hit them.
Continue to pay child benefit to people paying the 40 per cent tax rate (over £42,475 a year), rather than cutting it as planned
Agree: 25% Disagree: 58%
Cut duty on petrol and diesel before cutting any other taxes
Agree: 74% Disagree: 15%
Younger people are less likely to agree than older people – 65% 18-24 year olds and 64% of 25-34 year olds agree, compared with 83% of people aged 65 and over. This cut is supported by 80% of Conservative voters, compared to 74% of Labour and 65% of Lib Dem voters.
Introduce a minimum price for a unit of alcohol
Agree: 44% Disagree: 41%
Supported by 51% of Conservative voters and 56% of Lib Dems.
Freeze the duty on beer in order to help save Britain's pubs
Agree: 54% Disagree: 27%
We also asked if people agreed or disagreed with more general statements about the economy. A pair of statements about trust on the economy produced poor figures for Ed Miliband and Ed Balls:
I trust David Cameron and George Osborne to make the right decisions about the economy
Agree: 29% (-1 since November) Disagree: 49% (+4)
I trust Ed Miliband and Ed Balls to make the right decisions about the economy
Agree: 15% (-6 since November) Disagree: 59% (+9)
http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/632/indepe ... l-poll.htm0 -
Why would 18-24yr olds be against raising the minimum tax allowance??
Freezing beer duty wouldn't do bugger all, the damage has already been done to the pub trade, it would need a significant cut if anything.0 -
There's a lot of presumptions going on here. Some right, some wrong. I am not going to confirm which is which though :twisted:Greg66 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Greg66 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:
I know *your* answer to that...
You know Daviesee's too? :P
I was surprised how small the cost was to drop the rate from 50-45.
Around £400m the treasury says. Presumably that's contestable, but still.
Do I? I find it hard to keep track of all the pinkos around here. They tend to blend into a solid wall of malcontentedness after a while :twisted:
Financially, changing the high tax level will not achieve very much.
Politically it will fuel the rage against the Tories. Not good from their point of view.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
To summarise that survey:-
The majority of us aren't rich so please tax the rich more and reduce tax on the rest of us please
One of the posts above goes on about "making the rich pay their fair share" - surely in our current system then they already pay more than their fair share (as do those who are slightly above average earners)? Someone on £30k per year will be paying (roughly) £6k per year in tax and NI whilst someone earning £500k per year is paying about £200k in tax and NI (plus probably using less of the services the tax pays for due to paying for private education / healthcare). They are also likely to pay significantly higher Council tax. Now, obviously a lot will be using legal tax avoidance procedures to reduce their liabilities but I bet they still pay vastly more than most of us so how is that not "paying their fair share"? As for the comment that when there was a 90% tax rate people didn't leave - there were few people earning that sort of money back then, those who were were often big pop stars or film stars and they tended to disappear to America (and write songs about the UK tax system).
I am not (and doubt I ever will be) rich but those that are make a really easy target for everyone when it comes to talking about taxes. I suspect in most cases it is down to jealousy and I don't for a minute think those people would volunteer to pay higher tax rates if they were in the fortunate position themselves.0 -
It's a chuffing shame that tax changes can't be made based on whether or not they're effective rather than whether the great unwashed think it's fair or not based on their massive appreciation of the tax system.
Go on George. Go to it. Raise more money by not taking so much away.0 -
verylonglegs wrote:Why would 18-24yr olds be against raising the minimum tax allowance??
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No idea.0 -
Probably didn't read/pay attention as far as "allowance". Or didn't understand it's meaning. :?Rick Chasey wrote:verylonglegs wrote:Why would 18-24yr olds be against raising the minimum tax allowance??
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No idea.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
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Mr Average here will end up getting butt f***ed to help out Mr Benefit.0
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Reflecting on my previous comments, and others on here, I don't think the Tories are going to suffer too much from this - they've played this one well.
Yes, Osbourne's tax cut benefits only the teeth-gnashing, hard-of-thinking right-wingers in his party. And yes, it is unpopular with the majority of the public. However, I think it's important to consider that this was always bound to happen under the Tories - this acknowledged, I think both the timing and the nature of the announcement were key. Any earlier in the Coalition agreement and I think it would of set a too negative tone for the remainder of the term, unsettling the public. Any later, and it would be too close for comfort to election time. So timing about right. Also, they've played a blinder by leaking early in advance that Osbourne plans to cut to 40p. Come budget day, he only cuts to 45p - voila, nicely softened impact.
Overall I think the Tory party have done well out of this budget."That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
Not Ed Miliband's biggest fan but have to say he was great there in the HoC sticking it to Tory front bench over budget."That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0
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Listening to him explain at length how the 50p rate didn't pull in as much as predicted, and how it was damaging for Britain, it was a bit odd then to hear the finale: we're keeping it for another year before the 45p rate comes in.
Also quite surprised to hear that it is the highest rate in the G20. Hadn't heard that before.
Overall, I thought he played a hand with limited potential pretty well.
Pleased to seem Miliband put on one of his customary substance-less performances. You have to be concerned with Balls and Harperson are nodding at everything you say (although he apparently isn't). He can stay.0 -
One point Peston made on the BBC website last night was that many of those who expect to receive a massive bonus in 2012 can afford to let it be deferred to 2013 (thus negating the argument for deferring a cut in the 50p rate). I wonder if the Treasury will be looking at some anti-avoidance measures to pick that up.
I also wondered this: from 2013 there will be two upper rates: 40 and 45%. Quite close. Does Osborne have to set out more taxes on the wealthy to abolish the 45%, or does he combine both rates to (say) 42%?0 -
Seems a third of the new expenditure is being paid for out of the cuts to pensions.
In light of previous discussions on here on tax, it was interesting to hear Osbourne's take on 'aggressive' tax avoidance.
Surprised by some of his rhetoric too.
I don't think the rich are net-losers or gainers from the budget, as much as the Lib Dems would like it to be more robin hood.0 -
I don't get the 50%/45% tax thing, everybody should pay the same percentage whether you earn ten thousand or ten million, why should you be penalised for doing well in life. Labour just push it to get the "why should they have all the money" vote.0
