Opinions on new frame - Stiffee v C456

DodgeT

It's me again... heads in a turmoil which new frame to get.

So, scenario is.. currently have a Spesh P2 with some cracking kit on it. I'd bought this with the intention of using it for messing around, jumps, quick blasts round flattish trails, just mainly a play bike.

It's too small for me to do anything other than jumping, so I want to get a more trail orientated frame, but which will still be a lot of fun on the jumps, as the bike will still be used for what I mention above.

After a lot of thinking and researching, I think i've narrowed it down to 2 possible choices, a cove stiffee and on one carbon 456.

Cove I reckon would be better suited for jumping as seems like a more compact bike than the 456, but i'm concerned it would be too short and no good for the blasting bit

carbon 456 I reckon would be perfect for the blasting bit, but cant help thinking that it wouldn't be the right bike for jumping. Bearing in mind that i'll be going 1 ring up front 9 out back, this I think helps the 456 as it'll be light as fook.

I'd love to be able ride either or both, but sadly that isn't goping to be an option, so really hoping some of you guys, especially with experience of either could give me some pointers.

Thanks for bearing with me, again

Oh, and by jumping, I mean like gisburn hope line, downhill etc. getting upto 6ft ish drops etc. Not and never will be brave enough for red bull type stuff :shock:

styxd

I would say the Stiffee out of the two. The C456 is a bit long (in both the top tube and chainstays) to be much good at jumps.

People will tell you otherwise, but these people will be the trail centre mincer types who've never actually ridden a proper set of trails or a proper jump bike.

A good bike for the job which you've missed off your list would be a Cotic BFe. Its got a short back end so it feels nice and manouverable, but the top tube is quite roomy aswell. They are also strong, fairly light and fairly cheap.

rockmonkeysc

456 Summer Season is closer to the Stiffee than the carbon 456. Stiffee gives a very harsh ride. 456SS is a bit long in the top tube for proper dirt jumping.
BFe is similar to the 456SS but much better and double the price

1mancity2

styxd wrote:

I would say the Stiffee out of the two. The C456 is a bit long (in both the top tube and chainstays) to be much good at jumps.

People will tell you otherwise, but these people will be the trail centre mincer types who've never actually ridden a proper set of trails or a proper jump bike.

A good bike for the job which you've missed off your list would be a Cotic BFe. Its got a short back end so it feels nice and manouverable, but the top tube is quite roomy aswell. They are also strong, fairly light and fairly cheap.

I agree, but like you have already said dodget "you won't be doing massive jumps" so do you really need such an aggressive frame?

styxd makes a good call with the Cotic.

styxd

I agree, but like you have already said dodget "you won't be doing massive jumps" so do you really need such an aggressive frame?

Thats the thing though, big mtb style "senders" dont really require a "jump" style frame. A stable, slack angled bike can often be best.

Its the smaller, tighter jumps and pump track style obstacles where a more manouverable frame makes the difference.

Another one to consider is the stanton slackline

DodgeT

1mancity2 wrote:

do you really need such an aggressive frame?

According to your daily texts I do

Hmm, like the look of the BFE, and £300 too.
Good discussion this though guys, keep the ideas coming.

1mancity2

DodgeT wrote:

1mancity2 wrote:

do you really need such an aggressive frame?

According to your daily texts I do

Hmm, like the look of the BFE, and £300 too.
Good discussion this though guys, keep the ideas coming.

Only so I get the P1 faster!!!

But seriously are you gonna do what I do? (I know you want to) and if the answer is no you don't need a jump/fr frame.

I'd go Cotic, still jump it, still waz round the trails on it, will make a great long travel h/t

styxd

The BFe isnt really a jump/freeride frame though (well it is sort of)

It shares exactly the same geometry as the Soul, its just a pound heavier (due to different material and different sized tubes)

Its still the same weight or lighter than a 456, a 456SS a Ragley Blue Pig, a Dialled PA etc. etc.

supersonic

If the frames are a 'bit long in the top tube', buy a smaller frame! Provided you can get enough reach with the seatpost.

Almost all the frames above have ETTs less than inch apart anyway in their 'medium' sizes (456 carbon 23.9, Stiffee 23, BFe 23.25)

DodgeT

1mancity2 wrote:

But seriously are you gonna do what I do? (I know you want to) and if the answer is no you don't need a jump/fr frame.
I'd go Cotic, still jump it, still waz round the trails on it, will make a great long travel h/t

I know I want to aswell, and I will get there. See this is why I don't want to limit myself by getting the "wrong" frame. Also have to bear in mind, I don't want to end up with something just like the enduro cause that aint going nowhere..

styxd wrote:

The BFe isnt really a jump/freeride frame though (well it is sort of) ...
Its still the same weight or lighter than a 456, a 456SS a Ragley Blue Pig, a Dialled PA etc. etc.

Out of those, the 2 i'd consider are bfe and 456ss

supersonic wrote:

If the frames are a 'bit long in the top tube', buy a smaller frame! Provided you can get enough reach with the seatpost.
Almost all the frames above have ETTs less than inch apart anyway in their 'medium' sizes (456 carbon 23.9, Stiffee 23, BFe 23.25)

Whichever I go for, medium is looking right anyway. I'm 6ft 1 with 33" leg and had a medium 456 before and fit was fine.

styxd

Out of those, the 2 i'd consider are bfe and 456ss

The BFe then!

Out of all the frames listed so far, I'd say the SS is the least suitable. A bit long, too slack, not very nimble and the heaviest.

supersonic

I'd get the 456 and save the 2lbs.

supersonic

Carbon that is.

DodgeT

And I imagine the slackset would be the way to go too with that?

They both are nice looking too (which helps) but you'd think they'd be completely different animals.

supersonic

Looking at the geo there is very little in them. The BFE has a 69/72 angles with a 90mm fork. The 456 is 67.5/71 with a 120. So if you put the 120 on the BFe it would be around 67.5/72.5...

Also that would make the ETT of the Bfe a little longer too.

DodgeT

Well... a pair of 140mm pikes will be going on the front.

delcol

i was looking at the stiffie fr before i got the chromag, the stiffie scores good reviews to.. last time i was at merlin cycles they had a stiffie in, and winstanleys sell them to.... both local to you...

what about a santacruz chameleon a true jack of all trades...

Northwind

I'm not much of a jumper but the C456 doesn't flatter me either It does feel a little long and cumbersome sometimes. But it's a much better behaved allrounder than the Stiffee (tbh I didn't like the Stiffee much at all, not to my taste, but it did throw around nicely)

DodgeT

delcol wrote:

i was looking at the stiffie fr before i got the chromag, the stiffie scores good reviews to.. last time i was at merlin cycles they had a stiffie in, and winstanleys sell them to.... both local to you...

what about a santacruz chameleon a true jack of all trades...

Ahh, knew merlin was close but for some reason thought winstanleys was darn sarth somewhere. Might have to pop over at the weekend.

Northwind wrote:

I'm not much of a jumper but the C456 doesn't flatter me either It does feel a little long and cumbersome sometimes. But it's a much better behaved allrounder than the Stiffee (tbh I didn't like the Stiffee much at all, not to my taste, but it did throw around nicely)

What size frame and how tall are you if you don't mind me asking? Do you find the 456 limits you over the stiffee?

jairaj

DodgeT you need to clear up what you mean by jumps. If its flat and long gap jumps or drops then the 456 carbon will prob be best. Its dirt jump style jumps then I think out of the frames listed the Cove might be better.

I have a friend who has a 456 steel (same geo as Carbon) and says its not as good as other bikes he has had in the past for dirt jump style things and on a pump track, feels slow and cumbersome for that type of riding. But says the longer top tube and slacker angles make drop offs easier to handle.

DodgeT

jairaj wrote:

If its flat and long gap jumps or drops then the 456 carbon will prob be best.

Your probably right with this, ie downhill type stuff, drops, table tops, more than dirt jump park mahoosive things. I aint got the balls for proper dirt jumping.

jairaj

Sounds like the 456 will be perfect for that use.

I7 Extreme

in my opinion the On one has the wrong riding postition for jumps so it would have to be the stiffe. Although there are plenty of other bikes and frames out there.

Northwind

DodgeT wrote:

What size frame and how tall are you if you don't mind me asking? Do you find the 456 limits you over the stiffee?

No bother, I'm 5'10 and ride a medium- could probably have got away with a small but On One sizing means the smalls aren't actually that much shorter. I'm rubbish at jumping tbh and that was the only thing the Stiffee was better at, everything else the C456 knocks it for 6 IMO.

passout

Have you considered Kinesis?
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... rame-11062

I liked the old Orange crush too, if you can find one.

Evil? CRC are doing these at half price http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=70982 - I guess a little too heavy for your needs but strong, flexible and a nice ride if your aren't in too much of a hurry.

I also like the original steel 456. Personally I wouldn't trust carbon if doing serious jumps. Although no doubt some one will tell me I'm wrong.

DodgeT

Kinesis sound ok, something just keeps pulling me back to the C456 though at the minute.

1mancity2

DodgeT wrote:

Kinesis sound ok, something just keeps pulling me back to the C456 though at the minute.

I think and this is from actually riding with you for the past few months and watching how you have progressed thus far that the C456 is the right frame for you.

I can't see you going jump crazy just yet and I think if you went the stiffee route you would end up swapping it later.

The C456 has everthing you need and will cope easily with what your doing now and in the future, can you see yourself jumping the "leap of faith" soon?, the C456 would easily cope with that.

And when you get her built, I will need to be having a go

styxd

Kinesis sound ok, something just keeps pulling me back to the C456 though at the minute.

When I buy a new frame, I make an informed decision based on the geometry/weight/cost.

I dont pick one based on a "something" since I actually have a clue. It sounds like it really wont matter which frame you buy, just get the one you like the look of most.

Northwind

styxd wrote:

Kinesis sound ok, something just keeps pulling me back to the C456 though at the minute.

When I buy a new frame, I make an informed decision based on the geometry/weight/cost.

I dont pick one based on a "something" since I actually have a clue. It sounds like it really wont matter which frame you buy, just get the one you like the look of most.

Charmin'. I've bought frames after making informed decisions on geometry/weight/cost, and then not liked them, because they didn't have something. Only journalists look at a geometry sheet and think they know everything about a bike

styxd

Well, I think my advice is sound!

Just be ignorant and pick the one you like the look of the most, at least it'll make you smile when you look at it

DodgeT

Easy now, don't want this to turn into a slanging match. Up to now there's been some good discussion / pointers coming out here and I want it to continue.
Just to reply to your comment stxyd - i'm sorry but i don't think anything i've mentioned relates to buying on looks.
"Something" could well be, the weight, new(ish) material, good geo, especially with the slackset, and thats before we talk about the cost.
If i'd started the thread off with "ooh, i'm going to buy a carbon 456 cause it looks lovely like innit" then maybe i'd agree with you

Anyway, I actually prefer the look of the stiffee, but that doesn't mean i'm buying it.