Refund Unreasonable??
Comments
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Not sure how the lawyer ca help unless you have some consumer rights we don't know of.0
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A Brit trying to get what he thinks hes entitled to or a German Lawyer knowing what the consumer is entitled to.
Zee Germand are very hot on their contracts etc. For instance in UK if you cancle a direct debit your contract usually get cancelled aswell, over hear, if you cancle a DD, the contract runs untill the end and then they chase you for all monies owed till the end of the contract.
It works both ways, If they say my bike has a two year warranty........then it has and I want what is due!!!!0 -
But the warranty says that if the bike is out of stock they will offer something else! As I highlighted - it may be different in Germany, or the warranty for that bike different, but warranties are usually an addition to your rights. You are not even entitled to one!0
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Supersonic.... please dont tell me im not entitled to one i cant afford a new frame at the mo , surely something must be fit for purpose, its not like I downhill on it cause ive got a DHer for that. Ive only ever rode the bike cross country and around the Bavarian Alps on forest tracks/fire roads. Surley you cant expect a bike advertised as All Mountain with longer travel to be restricted to gravel track and fire road and have the rear frame crack in three places. I almost rode it on the Megavalanche last year, glad I didnt as it probably wouldnt have made it half way down.0
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All I am saying is you have to be careful is seperating your consumer rights with the retailer from a warranty, usually two very distinct things.0
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After 2 years and just inside the warranty period, i'd be well happy if I'd been offered another frame... regardless!0
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NM, yeah, but, where I bought the bike in the Alpes the biking season is around 7-8 months long, the rest of the year there is snow on the peaks and most of the tracks dont clear for a while after the rest of the snow has gone. So overa a two year period I probably had just over a years usage. Im still on the original tyres chain, brake pads and cables, and it still ran like the day I bought it, apart from three cracks in the chain stays!!0
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2011 Giant Trance Ltd, 2016 Revs, XT bits etc.0
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chazkayak wrote:For instance in UK if you cancle a direct debit your contract usually get cancelled aswell, over hear, if you cancle a DD, the contract runs untill the end and then they chase you for all monies owed till the end of the contract.
Why would you think cancelling payment would cancel either your contract or your obligation to pay?0 -
chazkayak wrote:Supersonic.... please dont tell me im not entitled to one i cant afford a new frame at the mo , surely something must be fit for purpose, its not like I downhill on it cause ive got a DHer for that. Ive only ever rode the bike cross country and around the Bavarian Alps on forest tracks/fire roads. Surley you cant expect a bike advertised as All Mountain with longer travel to be restricted to gravel track and fire road and have the rear frame crack in three places. I almost rode it on the Megavalanche last year, glad I didnt as it probably wouldnt have made it half way down.
I hate when people start talking like this, you are using a product which will be abused, as is the nature of any type of mtbing, and it breaks just inside your warranty period, and feel you are entitled to whatever you want. "entitlement" is a terrible way to live your life.
I cracked a high quality carbon road frame after 2 years of use, the company didn't have to offer any replacement at all since it was out of warranty, but as a gesture of good faith they sent out a replacement, not the exact one I had, but similar.
Be happy with what they are offering you, as you are "entitled" to a replacement frame, and if no replacement is available for the specific frame, a similar frame will be supplied.0 -
I know for a fact that my bike wasnt abused , and was only ridden on forest tracks etc not hucking off 6ft drop offs or downhill courses.
Yes bikes get abused, its the nature of our sport. Like I wrote earlier, the bike has hardly been used so I dont expect the frame to crack.
I was considering using it on the Megavalanche last year but im glad I didnt.... that would have abused it and if the frame cracked then I wouldnt dream of trying to get it replaced.0 -
MountainMonster wrote:chazkayak wrote:Supersonic.... please dont tell me im not entitled to one i cant afford a new frame at the mo , surely something must be fit for purpose, its not like I downhill on it cause ive got a DHer for that. Ive only ever rode the bike cross country and around the Bavarian Alps on forest tracks/fire roads. Surley you cant expect a bike advertised as All Mountain with longer travel to be restricted to gravel track and fire road and have the rear frame crack in three places. I almost rode it on the Megavalanche last year, glad I didnt as it probably wouldnt have made it half way down.
I hate when people start talking like this, you are using a product which will be abused, as is the nature of any type of mtbing, and it breaks just inside your warranty period, and feel you are entitled to whatever you want. "entitlement" is a terrible way to live your life.
I cracked a high quality carbon road frame after 2 years of use, the company didn't have to offer any replacement at all since it was out of warranty, but as a gesture of good faith they sent out a replacement, not the exact one I had, but similar.
Be happy with what they are offering you, as you are "entitled" to a replacement frame, and if no replacement is available for the specific frame, a similar frame will be supplied.
he is only asking for what he paid for,if you were in the bike business and someone asked you to replace a frame within the 2 year limit would you tell them sorry it's just inside the 2 years so no,Bull haven't done this but it seems you think the OP should be kissing their backsides for honouring their warranty.
BTW with your bike being outside of warranty how did they know yours was broken? I'm guessing you didn't ring with some feeling of "entitlement" knowing your warranty had ran out and thinking you might swing a new frame
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snig wrote:MountainMonster wrote:chazkayak wrote:Supersonic.... please dont tell me im not entitled to one i cant afford a new frame at the mo , surely something must be fit for purpose, its not like I downhill on it cause ive got a DHer for that. Ive only ever rode the bike cross country and around the Bavarian Alps on forest tracks/fire roads. Surley you cant expect a bike advertised as All Mountain with longer travel to be restricted to gravel track and fire road and have the rear frame crack in three places. I almost rode it on the Megavalanche last year, glad I didnt as it probably wouldnt have made it half way down.
I hate when people start talking like this, you are using a product which will be abused, as is the nature of any type of mtbing, and it breaks just inside your warranty period, and feel you are entitled to whatever you want. "entitlement" is a terrible way to live your life.
I cracked a high quality carbon road frame after 2 years of use, the company didn't have to offer any replacement at all since it was out of warranty, but as a gesture of good faith they sent out a replacement, not the exact one I had, but similar.
Be happy with what they are offering you, as you are "entitled" to a replacement frame, and if no replacement is available for the specific frame, a similar frame will be supplied.
he is only asking for what he paid for,if you were in the bike business and someone asked you to replace a frame within the 2 year limit would you tell them sorry it's just inside the 2 years so no,Bull haven't done this but it seems you think the OP should be kissing their backsides for honouring their warranty.
BTW with your bike being outside of warranty how did they know yours was broken? I'm guessing you didn't ring with some feeling of "entitlement" knowing your warranty had ran out and thinking you might swing a new frame
My whole point is that the company is doing everything THEY can, he just isn't 100% happy with the outcome, to say he is entitled to exactly the same thing, when it says in the warranty "if no stock available, we will replace with another similar frame", I would stop complaining since he agreed to their terms when he bought the bike. I'm not saying kiss their backsides, i'm saying realise that bikes break through useage, and that bulls are not the "problem" here. He is getting what he paid for, maybe not exactly what he paid for, but similar.
I rang up to ask how it works with crash replacement frames, and managed to work it out from there, but I didn't go complaining on the internet when they upheld their side of the deal even though it was not the perfect outcome.0 -
If this was in the UK, the phrase "these terms do not affect your statutory rights", springs to mind. In UK law if the company cannot replace then the buyer is entitled to compensation for the difference. Otherwise every retailer would hide behind the "sorry its out of stock" defence when dealing with high end failures.
In addition any attempt to limit liability (which is exactly what this is) would be meaningless in UK law, as firstly statutory rights override any contract terms and the The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 prevents retailers from offering remedy which is deemed at their discretion (which is what this is).
Again no idea how this applies to German consumer law, but in UK law the OP would be entitled to more than he is being offered.0 -
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If the goods are not as described, unfit for their purpose, or of unsatisfactory quality (includes minor defects), the consumer has up to six years to bring a claim. There are 3 time limits:
Up to a few weeks - Consumer can reject goods and get a full refund
up to 6 months - goods are deemed faulty at purchase unless retailer can prove otherwise
up to 6 years - consumer must prove the defect.
This is not a new for old warranty, any benefit of use is taken in to account, in addition the remedy offered cannot cause the consumer unreasonable inconvenience or be disproportionately costly to the retailer. However, if the repair or replacement is unsatisfactory the consumer still has the right to additional damages.0 -
diy wrote:If the goods are not as described, unfit for their purpose, or of unsatisfactory quality (includes minor defects), the consumer has up to six years to bring a claim. There are 3 time limits:
Up to a few weeks - Consumer can reject goods and get a full refund
up to 6 months - goods are deemed faulty at purchase unless retailer can prove otherwise
up to 6 years - consumer must prove the defect.
This is not a new for old warranty, any benefit of use is taken in to account, in addition the remedy offered cannot cause the consumer unreasonable inconvenience or be disproportionately costly to the retailer. However, if the repair or replacement is unsatisfactory the consumer still has the right to additional damages.
Wow that long? I'm surprised that in a wear and tear industry like this allows that long of a period.0 -
Six years to to make the claim - this is not how long the goods are expected to last, a common misconception! The OP in the UK would have to prove that the goods were reasonably expected to last longer than they had. His warranty is totally seperate to this.0
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supersonic wrote:Six years to to make the claim - this is not how long the goods are expected to last, a common misconception! The OP in the UK would have to prove that the goods were reasonably expected to last longer than they had. His warranty is totally seperate to this.
I was about to say, it sounds genuinely wrong if you can break something after 6 years, and then get a replacement and forms of damages. I could imagine alot of scum could basically buy one thing and keep it for life with new updates every time.0 -
Been told, not sure if true, that Giant Frames have a lifetime guarantee.
Was also recently told Trek frames have a lifetime (40yrs) guarantee.
Might try one of them next.0 -
But read the writing ;-). Lifetime to original registered owner? Lifetime with limitations? Your lifetime?0
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Most of these lifetime policies just warrant the item to be free from manufacturing defects for the life of ownership. Effectively extending the six year time limit. They don't warrant the item not to fail.0
