Refund Unreasonable??

chazkayak

So this is the problem.

I bought an Allmountain full sus MTB just short of two years ago here in germany where I live. Ive had a couple of problems with it the forks collapsed on me (rockshox!!) but were repaired under warranty, and the bottom bracket went within the first six months which I replaced myself.
Just recently after a ride in Dalby Forest I washed my bike down and give it a good look over. I found three cracks in the chain stays.

Not happy I took the bike back to a dealer who after two weeks offered me two replacement frames which were both cheaper and lesser spec so I turned them down as I want a like for like replacement but that could not happen for six months to a year or maybe never at all.

Am i unreeasonable for thinking I should get a full refund or complete new bike of the same spec???

supersonic

I am not sure how your consumer rights work. In the UK a warranty is in addition to your rights - however is still a legal contract - but it depends exactly what it says on it.

chazkayak

Im hoping that German efficiency and all that work in my favour.

MountainMonster

Depends on how long the warrants is for the frame. If it only comes with a certain amount of time on (not a lifetime warranty), then a refund will be hard to come by, especially after almost 2 years.

chazkayak

Found out that the warranty is two years, so im just inside that.

andrewjoseph

you're unlikely to get a full refund or a complete new bike as it is only the frame that is broken. Plus you have had 2 years of use out of them. You may get a replacement frame of the same spec.

my marin mv broke after 5 years, i got a replacement frame and shock.

toasty

I'd push for a straight frame swap, 2 years of owning a mountain bike, things will break. BBs especially, the fork was unlucky, but these things happen.

What was the frame just out of curiosity?

chazkayak

They have already offered two different frames. Both were cheaper spec and less travel. My original bike was 1800euros, the frames offered were from bikes costing 1000-1400 euros. The manufacturer have said they cannot get me the same frame, and the new model has a very different frame, main problem being tapered forks on the new bike and non tapered on the old, is it possible to get a headset to adapt non tapered to tapered head tube?

supersonic

But it depends on the terms of the warranty (if the same as here). If it says we will offer you a frame that may be of lesser spec, or a substitute, then there is nothing you can do except if you think they are breaking their terms.

In the UK you don't even have to offer a warranty, it is completely on the discretion of the manufacturer.

chazkayak

Hopefully this week I will hear something, its in the hands of the lawyers. If all else fails I will get them to rebuild the bike and then flog it on. After all, i want a 150mm travel AM bike, not a marathon 100/120mm .

I have been looking at a Trek Slash............well dreaming at 4499euros!!!!

supersonic

What are the terms of your warranty? Do you have them to hand so we can see?

chazkayak

Cant find them, the booklet is all German, and I cant find anything on the website. If anyone can the bike manufacterer is a well known animal that you wouldnt let loose in a china shopp!!!!!

Slow Downcp

chazkayak wrote:

If all else fails I will get them to rebuild the bike and then flog it on.

I hope you mean on a new frame, and not the frame with 3 cracks in??? :shock:

chazkayak

NEW FRAME!! not bodge it and legit!!!!!

MountainMonster

Are the frames the same on the lower speccd bike? Maybe they were thinking of just switching frames, as many bike through different tiers of spec, have the same frame.

chazkayak

My bike is a Wild Mojo2, 150mm travel mix of Xt, magura and Rockshox 1800euros originally. They offered me a Wild Cup frame, 120mm travel and Copperhead FS also 120mm.

I would be happt if they gave me the Wild Mojo 2 frame, but they say they cant get one, I just dont see why I should have to accept a less spec frame.

chez_m356

chazkayak wrote:

My bike is a Wild Mojo2, 150mm travel mix of Xt, magura and Rockshox 1800euros originally. They offered me a Wild Cup frame, 120mm travel and Copperhead FS also 120mm.

I would be happt if they gave me the Wild Mojo 2 frame, but they say they cant get one, I just dont see why I should have to accept a less spec frame.

so they don't have any complete bikes that they could strip ?, i bet if you wanted to buy one they'd come up with one

chazkayak

Yeah thats what I thought......but I also think they could be trying it on as im an Auslander (foreigner in Germany!!!)

cooldad

Just remind them who won the war.

chez_m356

chazkayak wrote:

Yeah thats what I thought......but I also think they could be trying it on as im an Auslander (foreigner in Germany!!!)

it seems strange to me that they are willing to give you a frame thats less travel, when surely they must know that the forks you have, in theory, have too much travel for it, or were they going to throw new forks in as well ?

supersonic

Again, it depends WHAT it says in the warranty. We don't even know what it is, though if the same as Rose:

Your Rose bicycle comes with a comprehensive warranty package. You have a 2-year warranty on all components and we will, within 10 years and free of charge, repair spoke breaks occurring in relation to Xtreme wheels or wheels that we have assembled according to your specifications (not standard series wheels) and we will replace every broken frame. This warranty is only valid for the first owner. Where justified claims are raised during the warranty period, we will replace or repair the article. All other claims are hereby excluded. In the event of an exchange, we will offer you a replacement frame as similar as possible, if no identical frame is available anymore. In that case, you cannot claim the delivery of an original frame and the exchange of components which are not compatible anymore. This warranty does not apply to damage arising from normal wear and tear, improper use, accidental damage or incorrect assembly. To retain your rights under this warranty please retain your invoice. The data on the invoice determines the start of the warranty period. We will, of course, assume the costs of shipping and assembly in the case of justified warranty claims.

MountainMonster

chazkayak wrote:

Yeah thats what I thought......but I also think they could be trying it on as im an Auslander (foreigner in Germany!!!)

Don't worry too much about it being that, have you asked if they would strip a new bike to give you the frame?

Try Austria if you think Germany is bad for foreign peoples treatment. Unless you show you really want to be 100% Austrian, they hate you haha.

toasty

is it possible to get a headset to adapt non tapered to tapered head tube?

Yeah, there's a few about Superstar do one for fairly cheap, so do On-One, Hope, Cane Creek etc. You can just get a crown race for your forks that lets them fit in a tapered steerer, meaning if you got a frame and headset it'd be a cheap job swapping over.

chazkayak

Supersonic, did you have to translate that info or was it english as they import into UK?

Toasty, at least if they offer me a new 2012 frame i know I can fit my forks.

Its a waiting game now to see what they have to offer.

supersonic

It was the standard Rose Terms and Conditions from their .co.uk site.

chazkayak

Ahh, Bulls dont import into UK so no chance of english warranty info.

supersonic

Bulls are owned by Rose as far as I can tell, and do sell into the UK via that website.

chazkayak

Didnt know that, will have a neb around see what I can find.

Just had a look at the Rose site, seen "Red Bull" bikes, not to be confused with "BULLS".

diy

Bike bought for 1800.
replacement offered to the value of 1000-1400

UK statutory rights, would entitle you to the difference less benefit of use or a refund less benefit of use. Basically you get a valuation for your current bike in similar condition ~ that is your claim. So a guess that something between 1000-1400 - they give you the money you give them your bike. Alternatively find the cost of sourcing the right frame and that becomes the value of your damages, provided it is not a disproportionate remedy.

No idea what the rules are in Germany.

The Rookie

Try for the longer travel frame and then get a reducing headset fitted during the re-frame, it won't cost mutch more and you'll get what you want - simples!

Simon

chazkayak

Thats what im after. its a waiting game now to see where the lawyer gets me.