Retul bikefit experiences?

cydonian74

Hi, i'm curious to know if anybody else has taken part in a Retul bikefit? I recently had one performed and they found that my position, according to there data and parameters was quite a way off.

So, following their advice, they altered my bike and position to be more in line with their parameters for better efficiency, comfort and power. Now, the changes are pretty radical; saddle up by nearly an inch and forward by almost the same, shoe plates pushed all the way forward, bars raised, stem shortened by 1cm etc.

I should perhaps give a short bit of background. I am returning to training and hopefully racing having taken nearly 12 years away from the sport. When i last raced, i was a 19 to 20 min '10' mile tester, a second cat Roadie and generally alot better than i currently am. I have been seriously training for 8 months, lost nearly 2 1/2 stone and am in a generally decent place condition wise. The reason i went for the fit is because following a few sessions on a Wattbike i was noticing that i was pushing alot more with one leg than the other; that plus some curiosity about modern bikefits led me to give Retul a try.

Now, and almost a month on from the fit, i have to say i am struggling alot with it. I just feel really different, particularly whilst climbing. My averages are similar but i just feel wrong on the bike. I have tweeked things a fraction (dropped my saddle by about 0.5 cms) but its really not helping, it feels particularly that the shoe plates are wrong, like i'm over stretching on the pedal stroke. i know i can change back to how things were, but am i giving it all too little time to adjust or could it be that my years of cycling previously (and any associated 'muscle-memory') that my body has, is just too ingrained to change this late in my cycling life? I'm interested to hear anybody else's thoughts or experiences on this.

Cheers in advance, Andrew.

ajmitchell

Perhaps they have given you the ideal position for a competitive rider; a fit that favours aero over comfort. Any radical change is likely to be uncomfortable initially. Presumably you have riden your old position for a long time (even if followed by a gap). The question is can you adapt to the new position fairly quickly, or is it too much and impairing your ability to ride (and desire to!)? Sounds like the second, so why not start back halfway to your old position and then each week make a 10% change towards where you want to be. If you have an eye on competition it would be valuable recording power and endurance stats as the position is changed.

cydonian74

ajmitchell wrote:

Perhaps they have given you the ideal position for a competitive rider; a fit that favours aero over comfort. Any radical change is likely to be uncomfortable initially. Presumably you have riden your old position for a long time (even if followed by a gap). The question is can you adapt to the new position fairly quickly, or is it too much and impairing your ability to ride (and desire to!)? Sounds like the second, so why not start back halfway to your old position and then each week make a 10% change towards where you want to be. If you have an eye on competition it would be valuable recording power and endurance stats as the position is changed.

Thanks. If anything they have made me less aero and attempted to make me more comfortable. I used to ride more stretched out and 'flatter' , i accept that i may not be as flexible now, but i never had too much to complain about there. I have got some comparible data, position to position, based on HR, and it suggests that i might be having to try harder to do the same rides and speeds. I am finding the climbs alot different in the type of effort i'm putting in because the pedalling feels so much different in action.

I think the your later comment with reference to making more incremental cahnges is probably the way i will go ultimately; hindsight is wonderful, but i suppose messing around with position that close to the start of a season wasn't the most sensible thing to do?

joshvoulters

Hi Andrew,

I wouldn't start moving your position around again, certainly not by changing 10% here, 10% there and constantly altering it. As you mentioned, your own efforts at finding a position weren't great. That's par for the course- whenever I've tried to "improve" my position, I've made a mess of it!

I'd give the Retul guy a call, and check whether any follow-ups were included in the original price. Even if not, if you explain that you're not comfortable on the bike and what the issues are, I reckon he'd be willing to see you for another session and rectify any issues.

It's worth noting that anybody doing Retul fits has to be certified, which isn't cheap or easy- it tends to weed out chancers, and I reckon that your guy would be very keen to make sure he's done his job properly.

Best of luck, let us know how you get on.

cydonian74

I think they offer 'tune-up' sessions for about £80, but definately not included in the original price.

To say that my own efforts weren't great, well, i don't know? By what standard? The computer program? His experience? I know that they had just fitted team Radioshack recently; Cancellara, the Schlecks etc, so he must know his onions? :?:
Its really perplexing. I felt fine in my old position, apart from the Wattbike discrepancy with my leg power/split. I beginning to think i should have left well alone.

joshvoulters

cydonian74 wrote:

I think they offer 'tune-up' sessions for about £80, but definitely not included in the original price.

To say that my own efforts weren't great, well, i don't know? By what standard? The computer program? His experience? I know that they had just fitted team Radioshack recently; Cancellara, the Schlecks etc, so he must know his onions? :?:
Its really perplexing. I felt fine in my old position, apart from the Wattbike discrepancy with my leg power/split. I beginning to think i should have left well alone.

Hi Andrew,

£80 is steep! Especially as Retul fits are expensive in the first place...

Re: by what standards your previous position wasn't ideal- I was referring to this part of your original post:

cydonian74 wrote:

The reason i went for the fit is because following a few sessions on a Wattbike i was noticing that i was pushing alot more with one leg than the other

So: your own standards! Assumed that it was indicative of being unbalanced on the bike. If, as you say, you actually felt comfortable before- maybe you should just go back to where you were. I haven't had a retul fit, so can't judge, but this certainly looks to be a case were the fitter has preferred what the data/ computer says to what the rider is experiencing.

I'm interested to know how you felt with the position in the actual fitting session. Was it uncomfortable immediately, or has it set in since? Asking because when I had a bike fit, it was a bit of a Eureka moment- everything just fell into place, I felt balanced and comfortable on the bike. Your case sounds like maybe the opposite has happened.

Josh

cydonian74

Thanks Josh. Well, weirdly, i felt fine onthe static 'ergotrainer' that they used, the new position didn't feel wildly wrong or massively different. Then, for the first few weeks following we had the ice and snow and so most of my training was done on my turbo at home, again, everything felt reasonably good.

However, my first few rides on the road were completely different in feel; i just felt like i was really having to almost rock from side to side to get my leg around at the bottom of the pedalling stroke, like i was over extending, as if the saddle was too high. So i dropped the saddle by about 0.5cms which seemed to help a bit, the difference that i was feeling then onwards i've put down to the expected change in feel from change of position.

My original position felt pretty good, and i can see where some of their changes will make a difference, like the reach and the saddle being moved forward; its made cornering at speed and also handling better for me at speed; more assured. However the pedalling action feels like my biggest issue, its not as fluid as i once felt. So maybe your right? Maybe i should reset and start again, based on my old settings?

Crimmey

Your experiences dont differ too much from mine, although ive never had a fit I'm always tinkering. As you say you could feel good on a static then get out on the road it feels wildly different. For me on myy tt bike on a tuebo I sit right on the tip of the saddle but on the road I naturally slip dead centre. Very strange. like you I can have saddle higher on turbo but feel over stretched on road. I was thinking of a fit but not a chance now but my position is just about right now.

cyco2

Just a suggestion.. I have been adjusting my position recently for the fun of it and I have found the saddle brought forward got me more over the 90 deg. down crank position. Also, raised it in increments in order to get a raised heal position for my foot. I then brought the shoe plates back so it felt a little like the foot was forward on the pedal. Now when I pedal I sort of lock the ankle and concentrate all my effort on the down stroke. I do not use the ankle if I can remember because I think it can be a weak link same with pushing with the toes. I found I could spin better like this and push bigger gears when I felt like it.

bristolpete

Funny thing, but of every retul fit image I have seen from a good bike shop using it, every rider looks wrong. They all come out with towers of spacers, flipped stems and rotated bars. So personally, having seen it in use, I think it is one fit method to avoid perhaps. Furthermore, I hate being fitted on a turbo and as others have said, being in a turbo is nothing like being on a rolling road, punching up climbs etc but it is a good starting point to get your window of fit within the realms of being correct I suppose.

napoleond

Get yourself to see Adrian Timmis...

mentalalex

Adrain timmis is your man!!
cracking guy i've had all my bikes done, he explains everything he does so you understand. Great Guy

RoadMeridaBen

Get the bike on the turbo and whip the camera out, lets have a look! :P

doyler78

Well I'll give the alternative view. I got fitted 3 years ago.

History first. For 2 years I think I had suffered from recurring injuries, which I knew had to be related to bike fit. It was a very frustrating time as I never, ever got anywhere fitness wise as I would build up to about 60 miles and once I had managed 3x60 milers under my belt I would be injured. Hips, knees, feet & ankles. Back, shoulders and arms took a battering everytime I went out anyway. I basically was in a cycle of injury, recovery, injury and the injuries took more than a month to recover from which meant each time I started from scratch again. I did try to resolve the issues on numerous occassions. I had 3 bike fits and 3 sessions of physio, once under a consultant. The physio only treated the symptoms and not the underlying problem. The bikes fits were useless. They put me in unrealistic positions based on what a standard rider could cope with. I wasn't a standard rider as was demonstrated when I did get my Retul fit.

Basically I had very bad flexibility with extremely tight hamstrings. There was no way I was ever going to hold the positions I was pushed into. Apparently my position was described as super aggressive. I had my saddle lowered. My seat pushed in. My stem flipped and compact bars fitted which reduced reach to the drops and to the hoods.

I did feel very upright and I was far from aero however I said nothing a left. It was only after serveral months did I feel comfortable in even saying anything about my fit. I have been problem free ever since, except when I b@lls up my cleat change. I have not had one bike fit injury that has put me off the bike since.

I have since flipped my stem back however everything else has remained the same.

I was offered free support after my bike fit so I guess it's down to individual fitters what sort of post fit backup they offer.

cydonian74

Thanks for all of the input. I have re-contacted the fitter and he is happy to re-look at the data from it, and whilst he concedes that adjustments following fits do not suit everybody or work for everybody all of the time, he did still feel that the fit is basically sound, and that my old position was so biomechanically wrong that i should resist going back to it until we've both had a chance to tweak things, together. So it seems as though he is more than happy to try and re-look at things and help me out.

I'll have to keep you posted and let you know how it all pans out.

napoleond

Nice one, you need to give it time...

doyler78

Yeah that's great news. It's only a poor fitter that believes that they can get the fit right straight off. As my fitter explained it. "It's an iterative process" ie it's going to take a bit of tweaking as every person is unique and responds differently. I was happy with mine so I never needed to go back.

rozzer32

NapoleonD wrote:

Get yourself to see Adrian Timmis...

That's where I am off to in the morning

Crimmey

and.........how did it go for you!?

napoleond

rozzer32 wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

Get yourself to see Adrian Timmis...

That's where I am off to in the morning

Say Hello from me!

Canny Jock

It's a complex subject, with many different views on the correct way to fit someone. I've been reading a lot of Steve Hogg articles recently, and am heading off to The Bike Whisperer soon. Seems to make more sense than a fit by numbers approach, guess Adrian Timms also fits this 'less scientific' way.

rozzer32

Crimmey wrote:

and.........how did it go for you!?

Well due to unfortunate personal circumstances I wasn't able to make it. But I've had a fit with Adrian before and he is very very good. Can honestly say he completely changed my riding. It has been the best money I have spent on my cycling.

Unfortunately because Adrian is soooooooo busy it will be at least 6 weeks before I can have another appointment. So after looking about and a few recommendations I've booked in with Richard at Pedal Precision in a couple of weeks. Also works out a lot cheaper for me £110 compared to £150 with Adrian and also Manchester is only 30-40 minutes drive for me, compared to nearly 2 hours to get to Adrians. I just hope the lesser price doesn't mean a lesser fit.

Although the good thing with Adrian is the footbeds, these are brilliant and definitely worth getting.

khumbu8000

GOOD TIMING! I just came on to type up a thumbs up for the Retul Bikefit from Garth Kruger from Vankru. He came up from Southampton to Marlborough and we did it in the local bikeshop.
I have had a lot of problems with severe imbalances and he found a 1cm leg length discrepency.

Ultimately the system clearly shows you how much lateral motion my knees were having to make. After adjustments it showed how much this changed. The system is pretty amazing but vastly enhanced by his knowledge.

I was initially desperate but sceptical. You dont know whether someone is a bit of a cowboy or not. The explanations he gave for every adjustment were clear, common sense and really helpful. He really really knows his stuff. He is at least £50 cheaper than the nearest rival and travels to you (there were 2 of us so no travelling charge)- I can assure you this price difference is not a reflection of the standard.
I got at least 3hrs of his time. He didn't try to sell me anything and he had plenty of time not to rush me. Give him a try> PS I am not his brother or anything!!!

Ed

andysol

Ive just had a retul and enjoyed the process. It wasn't just by numbers and involved a physical assessment on my flexibility / strength. As well as the actual before and after check of my cycling motion.

My cleat position was adjusted, saddle moved fwd quite a bit, saddle lowered quite a bit and advice given for longer stem but shallow drops.

My position now feels a little strange but not bad. I feel more stable though and comfortable. But the lower saddle height seams very different to my previous condition. Was was offered a free follow up session after ive completed the advised stem / bar changes and tried some core exercises to improve my "arse" strength.

Apparently i have a weak arse, which is causing instability at high power output. I found the retul process a mixture of physical assessment, traditional bike fit assessment and the actual 3d tool. They also accurate measured the bike with a probe to give an exact report on the bike setup so i can transfer that to other bikes.

So far, £134 + 2hours of my life well spent, especially if it helps prevent my reoccurring injuries. Although £134 seams alot of money, but i reckon could save me money in the long term by avoiding incorrect saddle, stem / bar / bike future purchases.

I can thoroughly recommend Andy @ Bike Science + the Darlington Studio.

Andysol