The more I ride, the fatter I become!

Southgate

No. Seriously! I'm 48, in peak condition, and my regular sports are cycling (normally around 120 miles pw - usual club stuff), resistance training (3 x 1 hour sessions pw at elite level), and swimming (3 x 30 min interval sets pw). I'm 5'11 and currently weigh in at 85 kilos, which would be within my "perfect" range, except that when in January I started training for this summer's Etape du Tour, I was a very lean 83 kilos with 14% body fat. And my aim was to maintain upper body muscle mass but compensate for the this weight by losing three kilos of body fat. Instead, I've gained an extra two!

What happened was that as I gradually upped the weekly mileage on the bike from 120 to around 250, I was forced to move from a high protein diet typical of gym-trained athletes, to a more carb based diet ("good" carbs, not refined carbs, sugars and junk food) to fuel the extra cycling.

Result: super high fitness levels across all disciplines (especially cycling of course), but also an unwanted weight gain together with a small but noticeable increase in fat around the stomach area. It's not a vanity issue - from an aesthetic point of view I actually prefer my current weight. It's just that come July, I'd much rather be lugging 80 kilos over the Alps and Pyrenees, than 85.

So I guess my question is has anyone else experienced this problem, and if so, what was their solution? I know I can lose the weight by re-balancing my nutritional regime back towards a higher intake of protein, but it leads to me running out of gas on longer rides. I've thought of four things to try:

1. Alternating high protein days with high carb days, but it might not be very effective and God knows what it would do to my digestive system.

2. Switching to a high protein diet for seven consecutive days each month, and just cycle through the consequent discomfit.

3. Switching to a high protein diet during the three week taper period before the Etape, and then back over to a high carb diet three days before the race. If this went wrong, I would of course be well and truly f****d!

4. Keeping the same nutritional balance and simply eating less of everything. I'm sure this will work in theory, but in practice I'm not sure I can spend the next four months in a permanent state of hunger! I'm never hungry on a high protein diet, so sticking to that one is a piece of cake, if you'll forgive the high carb metaphor.

Any thoughts or insights gratefully received.

jgsi

I just don't think the 2 types of goal mix very well , that's all - meaning body building gym stuff and cycling.

if you want to lose weight or get to an optimum, you need to re think your focus and concentrate solely on that.
Either that or you have not come 'clean' as to the amount of food/drink you have been stuffing away to put on weight.
I aint no lightweight myself at 83kg/73" bmi nearly 25, but my body fat when taken with calipers (3 sites) is below 10%.( I have been training hard for me over winter)... I eat just normal stuff - none of these food supplements

phreak

I'm having a similar struggle. Last summer I was 57kg and around 8% body fat (according to my scales). Now I'm 14% and having the devils own job getting much below 59kg (I'm only 5'5", hence the low weight). My diet isn't really all that different to last year according to my food diary.

cougie

I'd bin the swimming - and think about bInning the resistance work.
You don't need upper body strength to climb.

jibberjim

If you were not aerobically fit before, getting aerobically fit would've increased your weight without increasing your fat at all - your blood volume increases, you store more glycogen - so to actually maintain weight you need to lower your body fat, not simply maintain it.

ut_och_cykla

Go back to something like your high protein diet but make sure you time rides to when you are least carb empty and take quick carbs with you. You probably don't need all the carbs you've been eating as your body is 'used to' coping on less carbs than other diets provide. I certainly wouldn't do 1,2 or 3 whatever. Physics says you've been eating more calories than you need if you've put on weight - some of it is adaptation to exercise - blood plasma etc but I would review calorie amounts. And do it now - not 3 weeks before the Etape!

shockedsoshocked

I had a similar regime to you (strength work + cycling). For my nutrition module this year I used myself. Basically I ate the majority of my carbs before and during exercise (didn't eat during weight sessions obviously), recovery drink afterwards then dinner with lean meat/fish, with say new potatoes and veg, all being accounted for and moderated. Timing seemed to be the key as I based my diet on that of a boxer or lightweight rower, where weight is paramount as well as maintaining exercising intensity and recovery. Proportionally my protein intake was quite high to protect lean mass.

Also switch your strength work to pretty much just the core lifts, squat deads and bench if you want to maintain your upper body (my regime includes wide grip pulls and dips as well).

Lost a kilo a week throughout my 6 week intervention.

Crimmey

This winter I had done soooo many more miles than last year and eaten so much better yet I was 5kgs heavier which really annoyed me. I have had to really up my mileage to averaging 300 a week to get any kind of weight loss happening. I also swim. My morning ride I usually eat nothing until I get to work and my Sunday rides of about 70 miles I don't really eat anything. Maybe I should try the eat little but often method but really like to starve myself then eat everything in one meal so I feel really full and satisfied as a reward for the amount of cycling Im doing and as that little motivation factor. At mo Im 68kgs 5'6". I have a fair amount of muscle so thought my metabolism would be high but I dont think it is.

rajMAN

Crimmey wrote:

This winter I had done soooo many more miles than last year and eaten so much better yet I was 5kgs heavier which really annoyed me. I have had to really up my mileage to averaging 300 a week to get any kind of weight loss happening. I also swim. My morning ride I usually eat nothing until I get to work and my Sunday rides of about 70 miles I don't really eat anything. Maybe I should try the eat little but often method but really like to starve myself then eat everything in one meal so I feel really full and satisfied as a reward for the amount of cycling Im doing and as that little motivation factor. At mo Im 68kgs 5'6". I have a fair amount of muscle so thought my metabolism would be high but I dont think it is.

300miles a week eh, what did you do after breakfast?? :shock:

cyco2

Last year I rode from Christmas to the late Summer about 4000 miles and did not lose an ounce. I thought if I carried on eating what I was without riding I would lose weight. I was not a big eater so it annoyed me but I set out to reduce what I ate. It was surprising what small amount of food I got down to. But I did make sure that I always had enough food for a 2 + hour ride. Having said that I never have anything extra just because it's a ride. I only take a mars bar for emergencies and even then only eat one a month when needed. I use glucose in energy drinks and could ride all day on those.
I would suggest you reduce food to what you can survive on and have something for the odd emergency. You will be surprised how little you can get away with.

mr_eddy

I may be re-iterating what has already been said but to me it looks like the issue could be muscle mass. Obviously with all your training and new diet you may be experiencing changes in muscle structure. Typically you need a higher protein content to build muscle but its still possible with the correct carbs too, Ultimately if you are eating a large amount (even if its mainly high energy carbs) then training 250 miles a week you are going to put on muscle which as we know is denser than fat. For the same space taken up muscle will weigh more, also as you burn fat from your lower waist/hip area you may find that the remaining fat looks bigger.

You could also be overeating to compensate for the extra miles you are doing. A fit and healthy male burns around 25-40 calories per mile (this will obviously change depending on your weight, type of bike, wind resistance etc but its a rough estimate)

Hope this helps

styxd

To be fair, if you've got fatter then you're eating to much. And I'm not sure 5'11", 83kg, 14% body fat and very lean are words I would ever put together.

I would have thought as a cyclist, your ideal weight for your height would be about 70kg?

And 14% body fat is quite a bit for a cyclist, I'd be aiming for under 10% to be classed as "lean". I'd say you've got quite a bit to lose.

martincashman

You could try eating less, that seems to have worked for me.

If you want to lose weight, get used to being a bit hungry at times - not too much or your body will start breaking down muscle. Weighing yourself everyday is a good feedback mechanism. Once you are at your desired weight, you need to eat enough to keep the hunger away but not over do it. Again use your everyday weight, if you notice it going up - cut back the food again. Eventually you will find the right balance.

I don't know about other sports but from my observations, cyclists tend to eat too much, always stuffing gels and bars in on the go. Fair enough if it's a full on race but in training there is no need to eat so much. You are trying to force adaption processes, if you keep feeding yourself then the body will be used to having an easy source of energy and won't adapt to burning fat for energy.

If you don't eat so much on the bike then you can have a good sized post ride meal (which is most hunger satisfying), if you eat a lot on the bike, then it's a small plate for post ride, which will leave you hungry for more.

When you are actively losing weight and deliberately letting yourself go hungry, try to compare the feeling of hunger with the feeling of suffering on a hard climb. Hungry pain now will mean less suffering on those climbs in future. Expect to lose some power as you lose weight but it will bounce back in a week or two once you stabilize your eating at your new weight and you will be a faster climber for the same power.

If you are too aggressive with the weight loss, it will take longer to regain that power. Balance is everything.

Southgate

Thanks for all the replies / suggestions, they were really interesting and helpful. By choice, I have a gym physique, not a classic cyclists physique. I realise that my relatively high upper body muscle mass limits my cycling potential, but it's a compromise I'm happy with. What I'm struggling with is getting the carb / protein balance right for both the the resistance training and the increased cycle endurance training, and consequently losing body fat, not muscle mass. This re-balancing turned out to be harder than I anticipated.

I don't have any problem 'losing weight' per se; all I need do is cut out the gym and swimming, which I have done before as a result of an upper body training injury - and with cycling only I started to disappear at an alarming rate!

Again, thanks for all the advice. I think I 'll go with ShockedSoShocked, mainly because of his training program most closely mirrors mine.

t.m.h.n.e.t

martincashman wrote:

You could try eating less, that seems to have worked for me.

If you want to lose weight, get used to being a bit hungry at times - not too much or your body will start breaking down muscle. Weighing yourself everyday is a good feedback mechanism. Once you are at your desired weight, you need to eat enough to keep the hunger away but not over do it. Again use your everyday weight, if you notice it going up - cut back the food again. Eventually you will find the right balance.

It takes plenty of time before your body becomes catabolic. Letting yourself go hungry really isn't a clever idea,neigher is using scales to determine how much you eat. That is just ridiculously dangerous.

I don't know about other sports but from my observations, cyclists tend to eat too much, always stuffing gels and bars in on the go. Fair enough if it's a full on race but in training there is no need to eat so much. You are trying to force adaption processes, if you keep feeding yourself then the body will be used to having an easy source of energy and won't adapt to burning fat for energy.

The body will burn fat anyway. I believe you are referring to ketosis which in the case of a cyclist,isn't great to be in.

If you don't eat so much on the bike then you can have a good sized post ride meal (which is most hunger satisfying), if you eat a lot on the bike, then it's a small plate for post ride, which will leave you hungry for more.

What you eat before the ride and subsequently all of the time makes a huge difference,yet you only seem to mention post ride?

When you are actively losing weight and deliberately letting yourself go hungry, try to compare the feeling of hunger with the feeling of suffering on a hard climb. Hungry pain now will mean less suffering on those climbs in future. Expect to lose some power as you lose weight but it will bounce back in a week or two once you stabilize your eating at your new weight and you will be a faster climber for the same power.

The feeling of hunger can also be the feeling of dehydration. I would love to know why you so deeply advocate using feeling hungry as a guide. Hunger isn't a guide,it isn't even a reasonable guage. It's a sign that you aren't eating enough or are craving food,which should be avoided.

If you are too aggressive with the weight loss, it will take longer to regain that power. Balance is everything.

Quick loss = rebound in most people

martincashman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sStK1KG8 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W-SGNh3AD0

phreak

martincashman wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sStK1KG8lnA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W-SGNh3AD0

Scary how ill many pro cyclists look when in normal clothes isn't it :shock:

okgo

Its possible to maintain strength in the gym, and a muscular appearance whilst still getting better at cycling. But one thing I've found that is unavoidable is weight loss, I've gone from 95kg to 81kg in a year, I can still lift 75% of what I did when I was at my heaviest, don't look like a weed (but am not really big either, 31 inch waist etc) and I've got a lot faster on the bike.

But the food bit is tricky, I still eat a high protein diet, I am not willing to let muscle waste away given the work it took to build it, so slowly I'm shedding fat and becoming more lean, but it means I'm getting the right balance of food and excersise I think.

thiscocks

martincashman wrote:

I don't know about other sports but from my observations, cyclists tend to eat too much, always stuffing gels and bars in on the go. Fair enough if it's a full on race but in training there is no need to eat so much. You are trying to force adaption processes, if you keep feeding yourself then the body will be used to having an easy source of energy and won't adapt to burning fat for energy.

If you don't eat so much on the bike then you can have a good sized post ride meal (which is most hunger satisfying), if you eat a lot on the bike, then it's a small plate for post ride, which will leave you hungry for more.

When you are actively losing weight and deliberately letting yourself go hungry, try to compare the feeling of hunger with the feeling of suffering on a hard climb. Hungry pain now will mean less suffering on those climbs in future. Expect to lose some power as you lose weight but it will bounce back in a week or two once you stabilize your eating at your new weight and you will be a faster climber for the same power.

If you are too aggressive with the weight loss, it will take longer to regain that power. Balance is everything.

O/P dont take any notice of this post as it is all rubbish.
Making yourself feel hungry is the most bloody stupid thing to do if you are doing any sort of excersise (esp endurance) and is to be avoided at all costs. This will probably lead to the body initially burning muscle rather than fat. Muscle is easier for the body to break down than fat to convert glycogen to glucose quickly for short periods (when you are hungry).

It is better to eat small snacks on the bike than stuff yourself with a massive meal afterwards when you are very hungry and like TMHNET said, what you eat before is probably more important.

martincashman

At 14% body fat, I'm guessing the OP is never hungry.

There is a big difference between letting yourself go a little hungry and starving.

If you want to lose weight, you must cut back in a controlled manner - if you want to maintain it then you have to get good at balancing what goes in with what goes out. Weighing yourself everyday is to establish a feedback loop. If I see my daily average creeping up, I monitor my intake more closely. If it's stable or a little low, then I watch it less.

Different approaches work for different people. I've gotten down from 78kgs to 65kgs (Approx 6% body fat), while increasing all round speed and endurance and started racing this year.

I was at a Q&A session with Sean Kelly, earlier in the year and he said that whenever they invite promising amateurs to training camps with the An Post team, it amazes him how much they eat, usually about twice what the team riders are on.

t.m.h.n.e.t

martincashman wrote:

At 14% body fat, I'm guessing the OP is never hungry.

There is a big difference between letting yourself go a little hungry and starving.

If you want to lose weight, you must cut back in a controlled manner - if you want to maintain it then you have to get good at balancing what goes in with what goes out. Weighing yourself everyday is to establish a feedback loop. If I see my daily average creeping up, I monitor my intake more closely. If it's stable or a little low, then I watch it less.

Different approaches work for different people. I've gotten down from 78kgs to 65kgs (Approx 6% body fat), while increasing all round speed and endurance and started racing this year.

I was at a Q&A session with Sean Kelly, earlier in the year and he said that whenever they invite promising amateurs to training camps with the An Post team, it amazes him how much they eat, usually about twice what the team riders are on.

There is still no reason,nor one that you have given for doing either.

If you want to lose weight, get used to being a bit hungry at times

When you are actively losing weight and deliberately letting yourself go hungry, try to compare the feeling of hunger with the feeling of suffering on a hard climb. Hungry pain now will mean less suffering on those climbs in future

Please back this information up.

Weighing yourself everyday is to establish a feedback loop. If I see my daily average creeping up,

A great way to encourage disordered eating. Daily weighing does nothing but show fluctuations.

if you keep feeding yourself then the body will be used to having an easy source of energy and won't adapt to burning fat for energy.

This is also as incorrect as the rest.

martincashman

Supplement obsession and micro meals are more of a route to disorder than keeping tabs on a regular 3 square meal diet with a little bit of self discipline, to skip desert, at the right times to achieve goals.

Pross

I read an article that a personal trainer I know had linked to a month or so back from a weight training site. It was about people struggling to lose that last bit of fat and listed a few reasons (the usual too many carbs in your diet stuff) but the one that really stood out and led me to comment that it sounded like total BS to me was that too much cardio can lead to an increase in body fat. I still think it is BS and that the more likely reason is that people are over-compensating for the exercise they are doing with too many carbs though. I'll try to find the article.

Possibly worth taking a look at the type of carbs and making sure they are low GI / complex carbs?

phreak

There must come a point where you plateau though surely? Lets say you're a pro and you get to your target weight, there's no point doing anything other than repleneshing what you burn?

I mean if you're at 6% body fat now, do you carry on your previous diet and try to lose even more or start eating a bit more and maintain your weight? You would assume that maintaining your weight would be healthier than continual weight loss wouldn't you?

martincashman

I've stopped trying to lose anymore weight, just maintaining now - which isn't too hard. Losing it is the difficult part.