Cavendish compared to Cancellara

tarmacpro

BONKSTRONG wrote:

Do you have any idea how hard it is just to finish in the bunch? Never mind fighting your way through it after 200km of hard faced-paced racing. What you consider "proper racing" is what I consider a rider playing to his strengths, which is exactly what Cav does. This thread is like saying "who's the better runner, Usain Bolt or Haile Gebrselassie? I consider Gebrselassie to be much better, Usain bolt only has to work hard for 10 seconds and then it's all over".

Seeing as you're either a troll or new to cycle racing I shan't be posting in here again. There are many other people welcome to come and explain things to you in a bit more depth if you need it? I'll let them do it as I'm very busy now lunch is over...

I'd put money on it that i have been following cycling for alot longer than you have hence me getting very bored with these sprint finishes. Also you comment about how hard it is to finish in the bunch, you must be having a laugh right??? For you and me it would be extremely hard to finish in the bunch but for pro's alot of them consider flat days an easy day where you sit in the middle and get drafted along. Don't try to make out that guys are fighting tooth and nail to hang into the middle of the bunch because they are not unless you are on a really bad day.

Turfle

Rick Chasey wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Which in itself is a great argument for how good Cav is.

Or the lack of competition

It's a bit of both. More the talent and less the competition, but still.

Who of Cav's rivals would have given the likes of Cippo a run for their money?

It's impossible to tell. Maybe all of them, maybe none of them.

You can only judge someone against their competition.

Dai Bank

I suppose the trick is to try and learn about what is happening and why it's happening the way it is.
why is Levi sitting in and not attacking in P-N?
Why did BMC send a rider up the road in Strada Bianche and why did the two BMC riders in the break not get a 1-2 when that was meant to burn off anyone else's capacity to win?
Why was the T-A stage yesterday 230k long and lasted 6.5 hours?

tarmacpro

EKIMIKE wrote:

I think Greipel and Goss are legitimate competition but we can't forget that Greipel only started sprinting against Cavendish last year and Goss this year. Farrar simply isn't that great a sprinter. Kittel and Guardini should be good competition in years to come.

Essentially Cavendish is going to experience true competition the for the very first time in the coming years.

I'm hoping that Griepel can add some much needed competition to the sprints but i'm not too sure of him yet. winning a few stages in the middle east this year doesnt say much. Cavendish has said that the one person he fears is Goss but again the jury is out. Renshaw has been very disappointing so far as well

Pross

tarmacpro wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Turfle wrote:

tarmacpro wrote:

looks like i've hit a nerve here with some Cav lovers....as i originally stated what he has achieved is phenomonal for his age (26???). My point is that alot of races are now boring. Before i would turn on the TV and watch all the stage from start to finish. Now though if its a pan flat day you only need tune in for the last kilometre. Anyone who thinks otherwise i think is kidding themselves. What happend to the days of solo break aways, the guy hanging on for dear life to win the stage. Its like controllling robots now these days. I grew up watching the likes of Kelly, Abdoujaparov, van poppel race..that was exciting racing. Now its let the attackers stay out until 10k, best not reel them in before then because there might be another attack blah blah blah.
Anyway i would consider a Cancellara/Gilbert a more exciting bike rider then a Cavendish. Thats my opinion and im sticking to it. 8)

Your memory of flat stages from the past is being severely warped by nostalgia.

True, but the sprints where you didn't know who was going to win were more fun.

Exactly!

But as I said in my first reply that is down to no-one else being at Cav's level. It was the same when Cipo was in his prime (in fact he tended to win by bigger margins). If Kittel and Greipel continue to improve then the sprints could be the most exciting finishes out there. Personally I thought Canc last Saturday was one of the most boring finishes I've seen in a long time, for excitement there has to be a will he / won't he element to an escape which just didn't happen in the Strade Bianchi much as in the 2010 Paris - Roubaix.

EKIMIKE

Greipel has the raw speed. He severely lacks positional sense however. I distinctly remember one sprint in last years Tour where it was clear Greipel covered the ground quicker than Cavendish (they were both 'in the wind') but Greipel started so far back ended up second.

It's impossible to judge with Goss. He's had no form this year and the only other time he's sprinted freely against Cav was the worlds and he ran him so close (plus it was uphill, not a raw speed-man's finish)

RichN95.

Turfle wrote:

tarmacpro wrote:

looks like i've hit a nerve here with some Cav lovers....as i originally stated what he has achieved is phenomonal for his age (26???). My point is that alot of races are now boring. Before i would turn on the TV and watch all the stage from start to finish. Now though if its a pan flat day you only need tune in for the last kilometre. Anyone who thinks otherwise i think is kidding themselves. What happend to the days of solo break aways, the guy hanging on for dear life to win the stage. Its like controllling robots now these days. I grew up watching the likes of Kelly, Abdoujaparov, van poppel race..that was exciting racing. Now its let the attackers stay out until 10k, best not reel them in before then because there might be another attack blah blah blah.
Anyway i would consider a Cancellara/Gilbert a more exciting bike rider then a Cavendish. Thats my opinion and im sticking to it. 8)

Your memory of flat stages from the past is being severely warped by nostalgia.

+1. There's basically the same number of sprint finishes in the Tour these days as there were back in van Poppel's day (his Superconfex team rode largely like HTC). It just seems more these days as the same person keeps winning. Last year we had breakaway wins from Costa, Sanchez, Hushovd x2 and EBH. It's just these days the good quality breakaway artists know when their best chances are and the break can take 50-100km to form. On the Cav stages four no hopers go from the gun just to get TV time, not to win.

iainf72

Sprints are boring

Sprints when you know who's going to win are extremely boring.

When grand tour season comes around, I'd be prepared to wager a shiney pound coin that sprinter stages Cavendish doesn't win will get more comments than stages he does win.

Cavendish is very good at what he does. But it's just not very interesting. Chinny can do more interesting things.

andyp

Such as working with Cecchini and getting away with it?

finchy

Rick Chasey wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Which in itself is a great argument for how good Cav is.

Or the lack of competition

It's a bit of both. More the talent and less the competition, but still.

Who of Cav's rivals would have given the likes of Cippo a run for their money?

And how strong was the competition for Cipo? I'd say that at the moment, other than Cav there is a bit of a lull in quality as some of the older greats slow down and the younger ones are maturing, but let's not forget the level of competition that Cav faced when he first burst onto the screen - Freire, McEwen, Boonen, Hushovd, Petacchi were all still decent sprinters.

tarmacpro

Going back to my original post if you could be either rider who would you chose to be. Me hands down id take cancellara (ok i might only win a fraction of races Cav wins but i would trade that for flanders/roubaix) because you know the fear you can instill to other rides when you go to the front...when he puts the hammer down only the strong can stay with him!

andyjr

Cancellara = 1-dimensional?

prawny

tarmacpro wrote:

Going back to my original post if you could be either rider who would you chose to be. Me hands down id take cancellara (ok i might only win a fraction of races Cav wins but i would trade that for flanders/roubaix) because you know the fear you can instill to other rides when you go to the front...when he puts the hammer down only the strong can stay with him!

Someone please post a picture of Peta, I'm at work.

I'll be Cav please.

RichN95.

tarmacpro wrote:

Going back to my original post if you could be either rider who would you chose to be. Me hands down id take cancellara (ok i might only win a fraction of races Cav wins but i would trade that for flanders/roubaix) because you know the fear you can instill to other rides when you go to the front...when he puts the hammer down only the strong can stay with him!

I'd be Cavendish. Excluding TTs, how many times did Cancellara race to win last year. Six times maybe? Certainly, not many. For a sprinter there's a few chances every week.

Ideally though, it would be best to be able to do both, like Boonen at his peak.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

tarmacpro wrote:

Going back to my original post if you could be either rider who would you chose to be. Me hands down id take cancellara (ok i might only win a fraction of races Cav wins but i would trade that for flanders/roubaix) because you know the fear you can instill to other rides when you go to the front...when he puts the hammer down only the strong can stay with him!

I'd be Cavendish. Excluding TTs, how many times did Cancellara race to win last year. Six times maybe? Certainly, not many. For a sprinter there's a few chances every week.

Ideally though, it would be best to be able to do both, like Boonen at his peak.

He was toying with everyone else at those classics too.

Toying.

Jez mon

RichN95 wrote:

Turfle wrote:

tarmacpro wrote:

looks like i've hit a nerve here with some Cav lovers....as i originally stated what he has achieved is phenomonal for his age (26???). My point is that alot of races are now boring. Before i would turn on the TV and watch all the stage from start to finish. Now though if its a pan flat day you only need tune in for the last kilometre. Anyone who thinks otherwise i think is kidding themselves. What happend to the days of solo break aways, the guy hanging on for dear life to win the stage. Its like controllling robots now these days. I grew up watching the likes of Kelly, Abdoujaparov, van poppel race..that was exciting racing. Now its let the attackers stay out until 10k, best not reel them in before then because there might be another attack blah blah blah.
Anyway i would consider a Cancellara/Gilbert a more exciting bike rider then a Cavendish. Thats my opinion and im sticking to it. 8)

Your memory of flat stages from the past is being severely warped by nostalgia.

+1. There's basically the same number of sprint finishes in the Tour these days as there were back in van Poppel's day (his Superconfex team rode largely like HTC). It just seems more these days as the same person keeps winning. Last year we had breakaway wins from Costa, Sanchez, Hushovd x2 and EBH. It's just these days the good quality breakaway artists know when their best chances are and the break can take 50-100km to form. On the Cav stages four no hopers go from the gun just to get TV time, not to win.

Haven't been following pro cycling for that long (since 2005) but I can confirm, the days of flat stages being dominated by sprinters pre-date Cav to at least then!

You can compare the two riders at all really, beyond saying that they have both dominated their specific discipline at times during their careers.

ms_tree

EKIMIKE wrote:

I think Greipel and Goss are legitimate competition but we can't forget that Greipel only started sprinting against Cavendish last year and Goss this year. Farrar simply isn't that great a sprinter. Kittel and Guardini should be good competition in years to come.

Essentially Cavendish is going to experience true competition the for the very first time in the coming years.

I remember reading an interview with Farrar where he said he is really a classics rider and sort of became the designated sprinter by default.

dougzz

Ms Tree wrote:

I remember reading an interview with Farrar where he said he is really a classics rider and sort of became the designated sprinter by default.

I'm not sure he's much of either

ddraver

+1 Seems to have taken people along time to realise it!

(Watch as he wins every sprint for the next 10 years now...)

rick_chasey

Cancellara is better looking than Cav, on and off the bike.

ddraver

Your response Tusher?

Tommeke knocks them both out of the park though...

okgo

RichN95 wrote:

If Cancellara could sprint like Cavendish he wouldn't go on these attacks, he would sit in and wait for the sprint. If he could sprint like Hushovd or Boonen, he probably wouldn't either.

He's not bad at sprinting, and probably is not far from Hushovd really, look at the worlds for example.

okgo

But this is a shit thread, and the op is being silly.

None of it is easy, everyone has their strengths, like every sport.