Long hard solo rides...

briantrumpet

Do long hard solo rides (>3 hours/60 miles) play any part in modern training, or do modern training methods supply everything needed in order to be able to ride long hard solo rides?

I'll admit to being an old-fashioned get-out-there-and-ride sort of rider (though I do set myself challenging targets), and am just aware that since joining a club and doing more rides with other riders I've been doing fewer solo efforts. But doing my first properly hard one of the year yesterday made me realise really how hard they are (and how much I enjoy them.)

Are they too old-fashioned and inefficient for modern training methods, or do they still have a place? It's just that I'm not aware of the keener club members doing them regularly; maybe they do, but I haven't seen them. I suppose I could just ask them.... nah, that would be too obvious.

amaferanga

Club rides are IME easier. For a fit rider it's pretty easy to clock up 60 hilly miles averaging close to 20mph for very little effort. Doing that solo is a completely different kettle of fish. For training, riding solo is better than club runs. I think there are plenty of folk that only do club runs though, possibly because they can clock up the miles at a good speed for much less effort. Personally, if I wake up on Saturday morning and its p*ssing with rain, but the weather forecast says it'll dry up by lunchtime and be a glorious afternoon then I ditch the club run in favour of a solo ride.

briantrumpet

amaferanga wrote:

Club rides are IME easier. For a fit rider it's pretty easy to clock up 60 hilly miles averaging close to 20mph for very little effort. Doing that solo is a completely different kettle of fish. For training, riding solo is better than club runs. I think there are plenty of folk that only do club runs though, possibly because they can clock up the miles at a good speed for much less effort. Personally, if I wake up on Saturday morning and its p*ssing with rain, but the weather forecast says it'll dry up by lunchtime and be a glorious afternoon then I ditch the club run in favour of a solo ride.

Thanks - that sort of sums up what I've been thinking (and that's exactly what I do re club runs). The question was rather prompted by some nice things a regular club member said about my riding - to me, the particular ride was nothing extraordinary (just what I do when riding solo), but he seemed to think it was impressive. Since he's been riding seriously for 15 years, and I've been riding seriously for 18 months, it rather made my day. But also made me wonder if just being in a club might possibly, just possibly, lead to not doing as much solo riding as might be ideal.

sub55

If you read alot of the threads on here , you get the impression that alot of people think they can achieve their potential , by doing a couple of interval sessions per week , maybe a couple of recovery rides because they are obviously so tired and not alot else.
Now i`m with you,i`m abit old fashioned and i still firmly believe that you`ve got to put your miles in. Thats not to say they have to be easy miles ,but long hard solo rides give you the base needed to build on.
Take alook at some of the times posted in TT`s 40 years ago and remember they had no fancy bikes and aero aids , but good old fashioned training. Thats not to say everything they did makes sense.

rando

I only ever do solo rides. Try and get out every Saturday morning for at least 50+ miles and my average is between 16-17mph over this distance. I have thought many times about joinging a local club and there is one that meets about 2 miles from house that I often see out on a weekend but I am put off riding in a club due them saying they average 19-21mph over a 50+ miles ride. I feel I am really pushing it to reach 17mph average and my best ever over the 18 months I have been road cycling is only 17.4 mph and this was on a glorious day last summer with no wind at all. I do enjoy my solo riding and only have myself to consider so can stop for a convenience break whenever I need to ! Also if I wake up on a Saturday morning and its really cold or raining then I am not letting anyone else down if I wimp out of going out on the bike and opt for a gym session instead.
So I have nothing to compare solo training against so interested in peoples views that sometimes a club ride maybe slightly easier. Maybe one day I will find the courage and actually try out a club ride .

cyco2

I found this quote which just about sums it up.

Do not sacrifice intensity of key workouts to ride longer. It’s intensity not duration that most determines race fitness.

But that is if you want to race

martincashman

Do both, I ride solo for intensity and go with groups when I want a bit of less intense/recovery miles. Also helps mentally to have a few group rides to break up the solo stuff. Just started racing and a jump of 10kph average over solo rides is very manageable in the race group.

bigpikle

it depends on the group and type of ride, but I've been amazed when looking at the power data from group rides vs solo rides.

Our group rides are very well structured, consistently paced, no silly racing/sprints etc and timed turns on the front etc, and when I get back the amount of time spent tooling along at recovery pace is frightening. Then there are short efforts on the front where the pace hovers around my tempo/threshold pace for 5-6 mins and recovery time again, with occasional hard efforts on hills etc. When I do a solo 4 hr ride the numbers show long consistent efforts at a steady pace, with far more work done, controlled at the efforts I want to ride at, and with almost no periods of recovery pace apart from the occasional descent. The training effect of those solo rides is massively better for me and as my goal is endurance riding rather than racing, I'd say these rides are an essential part of my training.

I do enjoy club rides though and they do have a place, especially learning how to ride in a disciplined group safely etc, and for logging those miles when you might not stay out solo for 4+ hours, but right now I'm doing most of my long rides solo.

oldwelshman

cyco2 wrote:

I found this quote which just about sums it up.

Do not sacrifice intensity of key workouts to ride longer. It’s intensity not duration that most determines race fitness.

But that is if you want to race

I do not believe the above is totally accurate.
If you do not have a good base of steady and long miles you will not have the endurance required for racing, even for track.
Several times I have done tests on the track with repeat efforts and it is clear if I have not got the base miles in my reduction in times over repeated efforts is far larger than when my base training has been done.
I am similar to others, during the week I try to do at least two rides of 40 to 60 miles during the night, one shorter but more intensity, then club rides on weekend.
As alfarmenga said if its pissing down I also ditch club run and go out later.
All club runs are not the same but on the ones I do there are fast sections with intensity,usually several miles from the cafe It is difficult to replicate this intensity alone. I find the same on the track, a three hour session with extremely hard intervals is almost impossible to replicate on the road on a cold winters evening
I also enjoy riding alone in evening as I can mix the ride, several miles low intensity listening to the owls and taking in nice views then blast a couple of flat out kilo efforts, depending how I feel.
So there is a place for long solo rides and yes they are hard at times.

thegibdog

amaferanga wrote:

Club rides are IME easier. For a fit rider it's pretty easy to clock up 60 hilly miles averaging close to 20mph for very little effort.

I suppose it depends how you define "hilly"...

briantrumpet

Interesting to hear that my experiences are not totally out of kilter with others'. It's when I see lone riders in the TdF riding off the front for extended periods, I can't imagine them being able to do that without the mental and physical 'strength' (sorry to use that word in the endurance cycling context) developed through many hard solo miles in the saddle.

My own targets are speed over certain distances, not racing per se - so I think I need to resist the temptation to share rides too often, for the reasons above. But I suppose my slightly naughty question is whether long hard solo riding is somewhat under-valued in some modern training regimes. Not that I've been on a modern training regime or have any plan to. Dinosaurus sum.

phreak

I've kinda given up on club rides as they seldom go the routes I want to ride at the speed/intensity I want to ride at. So most of my rides are either solo or with a couple of other chaps that are of a similar standard to me. Much more enjoyable thus far.

As for the training value though, I typically do 3 sessions on the turbo during the week, then a longer ride at the weekend. I seem to be improving but suffice to say it's hard to pin down the gains from any particular part of that training.

SBezza

briantrumpet wrote:

Do long hard solo rides (>3 hours/60 miles) play any part in modern training, or do modern training methods supply everything needed in order to be able to ride long hard solo rides?

Yes they do , I think they are far more efficient that group riding, unless you are on the front driving the pace all the time on a group ride.

jgsi

So the moral is... enjoy group riding and do LOTS of turns!
OK that fails when you find yourself totally alone after a long pull.......
However, Sundays reliability was as close to race pace as I could have wished for at this point and the last 20 was done leaving me with a 'that was hitting the spot' feeling.
I have the advantage of being as old as I am, that I can be stretched by anyone younger... so thats nearly everyone then ;-)

wallace_and_gromit

I rode all winter with my club, but in the last few weeks have started going solo or with sportiving friends. The club is aimed at racing, whereas I'm aiming for the Marmotte. The winter club runs (100k including getting there and back) were done far faster than I'd ride solo, and I'd moderate my heart rate by taking longer or shorter (mainly shorter) turns at the front. The majority of the guys were better than me, so I got a good training effect even skulking at the back. Between November and February, a brisk club run suited everyone, irrespective of their objectives for later in the season. The hard men of the club are also missing from club runs now as they are doing their race training stuff.

I don't like riding with significantly slower people, as it feels like a waste of time training-wise, so I can see why others prefer solo riding all the time. I've definitely got much better at descending and cornering riding with the club though, so I should be giving it some stick down the Glandon in July.

briantrumpet

SBezza wrote:

Yes they do , I think they are far more efficient that group riding, unless you are on the front driving the pace all the time on a group ride.

Seems like my instincts were right then - I think I need to be antisocial a couple of times a week and just get out there by myself. At the same time, I do enjoy riding with others, and need to develop group riding skills further - all part of a healthy mix ... but I need to be careful keep the balance right, I think.

simon_e

oldwelshman wrote:

cyco2 wrote:

I found this quote which just about sums it up.

Do not sacrifice intensity of key workouts to ride longer. It’s intensity not duration that most determines race fitness.

But that is if you want to race

I do not believe the above is totally accurate.
If you do not have a good base of steady and long miles you will not have the endurance required for racing, even for track.

I agree with oldwelshman. While people respond differently to different types of training I think those that benefit most from intense workouts already have good base fitness.

I nearly always ride solo a weekends because it suits me and my commitments. I can also focus on the ride itself more of the time, whether that's sustaining an effort level, climbing technique or on easier rides, savour the experience. I know a lot of people prefer to have company, and some people find that their commitment to getting the kit on and going out is stronger if other people will be at the rendezvous.

Unless you're following a very specific plan I suggest you do what you like doing, but keep in mind any goal or purpose you might have for doing it.

SBezza

briantrumpet wrote:

SBezza wrote:

Yes they do , I think they are far more efficient that group riding, unless you are on the front driving the pace all the time on a group ride.

Seems like my instincts were right then - I think I need to be antisocial a couple of times a week and just get out there by myself. At the same time, I do enjoy riding with others, and need to develop group riding skills further - all part of a healthy mix ... but I need to be careful keep the balance right, I think.

I am antisocial nearly 100% of the time I do virtually all my training on my own, as group rides just don't cut the mustard for me. Then again I don't need group riding skills as I only do TT's.

Pokerface

cyco2 wrote:

I found this quote which just about sums it up.

Do not sacrifice intensity of key workouts to ride longer. It’s intensity not duration that most determines race fitness.

But that is if you want to race

Different types of rides for different phases of training. Right now I'm in a 'base' phase - so lots of longer, slower rides. 3 hours plus on a daily basis. But as I get closer to racing, then the rides get shorter and more intense. These principles can apply to anyone looking to improve their riding - not just 'racers'.

Even club riders will build their base over the winter.

As for solo vs club rides - I do both. Just for something different. I get better training on my own, but it's nice to get out with other people. Breaks the monotony up.

briantrumpet

Pokerface wrote:

I get better training on my own, but it's nice to get out with other people. Breaks the monotony up.

Sums it up pretty well. Seems to have worked quite nicely for you....

Pokerface

briantrumpet wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

I get better training on my own, but it's nice to get out with other people. Breaks the monotony up.

Sums it up pretty well. Seems to have worked quite nicely for you....

Training on your own all the time is mentally tough. But riding in a group is usually too easy for hard training. Training plan for me calls for both types of rides (or at least I've helped make the plan that way!)

And yes, so far it's working well for me

copperthorpe

Found this thread very helpful....answered a lot of questions i have been asking myself recently.Think i will join my local CC but only use them when its suits me and not feel obliged to go out with them,married with 4yr old so solo rides are my only 'alone time' I tend to get during week.

briantrumpet

... conversely, I went out for a group ride with just a few of the stronger club members on Saturday, and it was, er, 'educational' for me on the hills - they were blasting up them much harder than I could maintain (though I console myself that on average they are 20 years younger than me), which left me short of oomph on the final part of the ride, so there's certainly stuff I can learn in the group context too.

BruunLoss

My 2 cents for what it's worth. I'm 38 years old, and 6.5 weeks ago weighted close to 300lbs. Started cycling for exercise and health rather then commute. Average daily ride would be 12-18 miles at average speed 14-18mph. 4 weeks in, I decided to cycle solo from my home in Dublin to Drogheda in county Louth. Then train back 3 stops and decided to get off and cycle the rest of the way home. Total journey time 6.5 hours, time cycling 4hrs 19 mins. Stopped for bathroom facilities and a breakfast. I cycled for the fun, endurance and mental challenge and stopped for some photography too as that's my other passion.

Cycling solo means your not racing or competing with anyone other then your brains telling you to quite that your too tired. Beating a mental challenge is far more rewarding then beating a person. (in a race that is!) For me anyway. In the end, I did 62.5 miles /102km when my mind had previously said I cannot do more then 25 miles without exhaustion.

Also, it's wonderful setting off before dawn as you can fly in and out of all these little towns and have the satisfaction known your completed a challenge you never thought you could ever do. I'm already setting a longer goal for the middle of April.

Enjoy the cycling, it's not the destination in life, it's the journey.

thiscocks

^ good effort!

symo

SBezza wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

I am antisocial nearly 100% of the time I do virtually all my training on my own, as group rides just don't cut the mustard for me. Then again I don't need group riding skills as I only do TT's.

Me too, my club is in Devon so not being in the SW helps

Been doing longer 60-80 mile rides by myself every Sunday interspaced with Sufferfest Turbo sessions at night in the week. I ride a fixed gear plus panniers to work for 30 minutes each way every morning (rain or shine). It all seems to be paying off with dieting included. Shedded 8kg since November, still got 4 to go to reach my target weight of 74kg though. Genuinely starting to feel faster.

nweststeyn

I'm not a member of an organised club, but there are a group of us (6 or 7) who try to syncronise riding time so that we can get out in a bunch. For me, the benefit of riding in a group is the enjoyment of having someone to chat to, and at times the motivation of keeping up when somebody puts the hammer down. However, I find on these rides that the going tends to be easier and when we ride at pace it's only for short spells at a time. However, it's a great laugh and I wouldn't give them up for the world...

Riding solo is a completely different ballgame. Noone to shelter behind, noone to keep up with and noone to chat to means I end up constantly setting myself targets and trying to keep to them (don't let average speed drop below x.mph etc.). Today I completed my first ever 100 mile ride (103 to be precise) and I did it solo and my word was it tough, but I know that once i've recovered, I'll only be better for it. It's probably not the best way to improve compared to intervals/HR zone watching/etc, but the sense of satisfaction is huge! 120 miles next!

briantrumpet

SBezza wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

I am antisocial nearly 100% of the time I do virtually all my training on my own, as group rides just don't cut the mustard for me. Then again I don't need group riding skills as I only do TT's.

No I didn't. SBezza did. Just in case you're confused.

BruunLoss

nweststeyn wrote:

I'm not a member of an organised club, but there are a group of us (6 or 7) who try to syncronise riding time so that we can get out in a bunch. For me, the benefit of riding in a group is the enjoyment of having someone to chat to, and at times the motivation of keeping up when somebody puts the hammer down. However, I find on these rides that the going tends to be easier and when we ride at pace it's only for short spells at a time. However, it's a great laugh and I wouldn't give them up for the world...

Riding solo is a completely different ballgame. Noone to shelter behind, noone to keep up with and noone to chat to means I end up constantly setting myself targets and trying to keep to them (don't let average speed drop below x.mph etc.). Today I completed my first ever 100 mile ride (103 to be precise) and I did it solo and my word was it tough, but I know that once i've recovered, I'll only be better for it. It's probably not the best way to improve compared to intervals/HR zone watching/etc, but the sense of satisfaction is huge! 120 miles next!

Congrats on your 103 mile cycle! Great achievement. 62.5 is the best I've managed so far...

nweststeyn

Thanks mate! Now I just need to do be able to do it 5 days in a row... with more hills!

Bordersroadie

I came back to cycling last summer after a 24 year layoff (half my life ago!) and have been training through the winter. I've done almost all the training on me tod, "hard solo rides", commuting plus turbo intervals.

Today I did my first 80 miler for 24 years (!!) and was well pleased. It was quite hilly (>70fpm) as it has to be as I'm doing the Fred on 13 May. This is an interesting thread for me and pleased that my training method gets some wide approval!

Next weekend will be either 90 or 100, last time I did those distances I was 19!