Numb fingers - stem too long?

slowondefy2

Hi,

I'm getting problems with numb fingers and it's not from the cold. The little fingers are affected the most, then the fourth fingers. Thumb and fore-finger are okay, so I'm guessing it's from pressure on the ulnar nerve in the hands. The numbness comes on after about 15-20 miles of riding and can get to the point where it's really hard to change gear. I've got gel gloves which help a little.

I've got an Giant Defy 2010, medium sized alu frame, carbon forks and a 100mm stem. I've read in a few places online that many people find the stem too long. Could this be the cause of the problem - i.e. I'm having to reach too far and end up putting too much weight through my arms? I've tried flipping the stem to raise the bars and (only very slightly) reduce the reach but to no effect on the problem.

Can anyone help? I suppose the right answer is 'get a fit' but any ideas in the meantime would be much appreciated.

Zoomer37

I doubt its the stem. If that was to long then you'd probably feel it in your lower back and neck.

You checked the saddle? Nose tilted down and a few mm's to high and thats going to put pressure into your hands

Make sure its level and maybe lower it 2-5mm and see how that feels.

ugo.santalucia

Try reducing the pressure of your tyres... what do you use currently?
Failing that, try chunkier tyres at low pressure (kind of 27 mm at 85 psi)
Try holding the bars less tight, there is no reason to hold them tight, the fork will go straight with or without you, you can ride with no hands on cobbles.
Could it be circulation? Something preventing enough blood to reach extremities? Tight clothing, tight gloves...

keef66

You might be able to ride no hands on cobbles!

woozor

I used to get this in my little fingers also when i first got my road bike.

I Just found by moving my hands more often sorted it. As your most prob sitting on the hoods for too long and not giving those fingers a wiggle.

Pickled Pig

I had a similar problem and reduced my stem from 110mm to 90 and this definitely helped but didn't cure the issue completely. Changing hand position helps - If I do a flat ride and don't use the tops at all the problem is worse.

StorckSpeed

Get some help for this - Set your bike level on a Turbo Trainer and get an assistant to take a photo of you in your normal riding position. When you look at the photo your back should be at about 45 degrees. If you look more stretched out than this then reduce your stem length. I doubt you'll need to lengthen it or it wouldn't be your hands that were going numb.
Your using gel gloves, but look at also buying buying padded bar tape such as Specialised Bar Phat. This comes with gel pads and increases the diameter of the Bar slightly with the soft gel pads under the tape. Or stick to the bar tape you have and buy Cinelli gel pads.
Definitely take woozor's advice and change your hand position more frequently. I would look to do this every 15 minutes at least.

andi1363

You need to relax your grip a bit thats all :!:

joshr96

Your stem wont be the problem, if it was too long, you would feel it in your back. Mostly inbetween your shoulder blades.

You should probably try stretching your arms every now and again when on your bike. The same thought of thing you do on a plane when your feet are still for ages.

Dont go out and buy a stem, try some "finger exersizes".

Hope this helped 8)

Pickled Pig

Josh Harfoot wrote:

Your stem wont be the problem, if it was too long, you would feel it in your back.

Not sure why you say this :? Apart from my personal experience contradicting your claim, it is easy to rationalise why a longer stem places more pressure on your wrists and hands. If the stem, and therefore reach, was so long that your upper body was parallel to the ground, half the torso weight would be borne on the hands. Conversely, if reach is so short that you sit vertically then all the upper body weight rests on the saddle. Ergo, shorter stem = less pressure on bars. Simples, as Suricata suricatta might say!

slowondefy2

Thank you everyone for your input

jgsi

I have 2 x 110mm stems for sale on Ebay... I suggest going up 10mm as definite cure for numb fingers.. 100% guarantee

slowondefy2

JGSI wrote:

I have 2 x 110mm stems for sale on Ebay... I suggest going up 10mm as definite cure for numb fingers.. 100% guarantee

K THNX I'll buy both

jgsi

slowondefy2 wrote:

JGSI wrote:

I have 2 x 110mm stems for sale on Ebay... I suggest going up 10mm as definite cure for numb fingers.. 100% guarantee

K THNX I'll buy both

remember with Paypal, buyers can't lose!

wishitwasallflat

Pickled Pig wrote:

it is easy to rationalise why a longer stem places more pressure on your wrists and hands. If the stem, and therefore reach, was so long that your upper body was parallel to the ground, half the torso weight would be borne on the hands. Conversely, if reach is so short that you sit vertically then all the upper body weight rests on the saddle. Ergo, shorter stem = less pressure on bars. Simples, as Suricata suricatta might say!

JGSI wrote:

I have 2 x 110mm stems for sale on Ebay... I suggest going up 10mm as definite cure for numb fingers.. 100% guarantee

Must say the first arguement seems logical but the second I am puzzled by - how could changing to a longer stem reduce the OP's problem?

jgsi

wishitwasallflat wrote:

Pickled Pig wrote:

it is easy to rationalise why a longer stem places more pressure on your wrists and hands. If the stem, and therefore reach, was so long that your upper body was parallel to the ground, half the torso weight would be borne on the hands. Conversely, if reach is so short that you sit vertically then all the upper body weight rests on the saddle. Ergo, shorter stem = less pressure on bars. Simples, as Suricata suricatta might say!

JGSI wrote:

I have 2 x 110mm stems for sale on Ebay... I suggest going up 10mm as definite cure for numb fingers.. 100% guarantee

Must say the first arguement seems logical but the second I am puzzled by - how could changing to a longer stem reduce the OP's problem?

It was meant slight tongue in cheek... but if the OP needs an even shorter stem than an already short 100mm, I would suggest that the whole bike is probably wrong in size in the first place.
Road bikes are not designed to be sit up and beg positioning.

wishitwasallflat

JGSI wrote:

It was meant slight tongue in cheek... but if the OP needs an even shorter stem than an already short 100mm, I would suggest that the whole bike is probably wrong in size in the first place.
Road bikes are not designed to be sit up and beg positioning.

Ahh ... thanks - must remember to re-boot my sense of humour sub-programme

slowondefy2

JGSI wrote:

Road bikes are not designed to be sit up and beg positioning.

And sit up and beg I do not want! One reason why I suggested the stem is that I've read online a few reviews/accounts where riders found the stem of an alu Defy a bit long, so wondered if that might apply to me! I realise I'm just grasping at straws.

Sizing the bike consisted of me plonking myself on a few bikes in the LBS whilst the staff sucked through their teeth and umm'd and ahhhh'd a bit, so hardly perfect conditions... :roll: The size down was definitely too small though - elbows were on the knees, so I don't think I've got the wrong size (although I may have been better off with a different frame/make entirely of course).

I think instead of guessing I'm going to have to get a proper fit done. If it's okay, I'll pass on your stems for now?

Sunderland Supporter

dont think you have a stem size problem at all, you need to change hand position more frequently and give your fingers a stretch

ddraver

Do you have small hands? I use size small or medium (brand dependent) and I struggled for years putting on thicker and more cushy grips on the MTB and Road bike to try and solve this problem. Then i rode my mates MTB which had skinny grips on and never felt a thing. I realised that I was using so much padding on the gloves and the grips that I was having to hold the bars much more tightly because my hands were to small to wrap all the way around the bars. I swithced to non padded gloves, got some thin grips for the MTB and took the gel off the rad bike and I was fine.

OK, on crappy roads i get it every now and again but it's much less than it was...

sungod

numbness can be due to gripping the bars too tight, or putting weight on your hands, i went through this when i first started out, eventually i twigged what i was doing

if you do find you are leaning on the bars, or gripping tight, try to stay aware and relax when you notice it, and as above, shift hand position every few minutes

your hands will recover, and after a few weeks it'll become habit

Pickled Pig

slowondefy2 wrote:

And sit up and beg I do not want!

A shorter stem doesn't affect the angle of your body IF your arms are locked with your current set up, as mine were before I shortened stem. The shorter stem lets you bend your elbows on the hoods which both improves circulation in the hands and acts as a shock absorber preventing your hands suffering from excessive vibration. If your arms are already bent then a stem change won't help.

Boy Lard

I have the 2010 Defy as well and have issues with my thumbs aching, but mainly because I have tiny girls hands and I have to over stretch a bit to reach the brakes (this is being fixed, may need to put some wsd bars on, or a different shaped drop). I would say though that the hoods on my bars were placed very high (from factory) and by moving them further round the curve of the drops to level them out with the bars made a massive difference to the comfort. My wrists were in a much straighter position, so better blood flow and less pressure on the nerves running through the heel of the hand.

Also, it's a bit counter intuitive, but sometimes increasing the cockpit length can reduce the weight on your arms, so while shortening your stem may help in your case, I wouldn't bank on it solving your problem. (I can't find the article I read on this, but it tried to get you to feel it happening by standing near a desk or table putting your hands on the edge and leaning forwards to feel how much weight was on your hands, then move your feet backwards and you can feel the pressure on your hands relax a bit, as you move further away still it gets heavier again).

ddraver

I read something somewhere that said you should be able to hold your body position still with your hands off the bars (when stationary), so you re not suppoting any body weight with your arms. It made some sense to me...

slowondefy2

Interesting reading, thanks. I've adjusted my saddle and I think it's made a big difference - I'd previously put it much too far back in a misguided attempt to get my knees in the right position over the pedals. I'd also tipped the saddle slight forwards thinking I'd be taking the pressure of the perineum, but clearly made this problem worse - I was tended to slide forward on the saddle taking the weight off the sit bones! I've also lowered it 3mm - much less hip wiggling when I'm sat and mashing up a hill.

All-in-all, trying to fit myself to the bike without help was a bit of a disaster ;-) I'll get there.

I also need new gloves, the gel insert has folded up inside the padding section, bah!

Lastly, I'm always moving about on the handlebars anyway, but I appreciate the reminder. I usually spend ~75% of the time on the drops, moving between holding the very ends of the bars and more forward onto the curved part of the drops. I'm making an effort to keep my arms bent, and it's getting easier the more miles I do (strengthening my trunk, I guess). My arms tend to lock out more when I'm on the hoods.

Sunderland Supporter

if your arms lock out when on hoods and seat is in right place, the frame is too long for you

slowondefy2

Sunderland Supporter wrote:

if your arms lock out when on hoods and seat is in right place, the frame is too long for you

To clarify: my arms can tend to lock when on the hoods, but I think only to compensate for poor trunk strength. I'm getting better in this respect. When I tried the frame size one smaller it was clearly too short for me.

Sunderland Supporter

what height are you and forget the medium sizing, what length is your top tube ?

slowondefy2

After the seat adjustment I've done 40 miles today without any problems. I've also reduced the tyre pressures a little also.

avantcarept

Thanks for all the suggestions, I thought I was the only one with this issue.

slowondefy2

I'm pretty certain now that the problem (for me) is caused by 10-15 psi too much in the tyres. I'm a 'more is better' type person in general, and whilst more pressure is pretty easy with a track pump I think precise pressure control is difficult with my cheap track pump.