Girls in... threads but a no swearing plicy, makes no sense.

DonDaddyD

notsoblue wrote:

And then you heap praise upon someone who claims to not objectify women but then has actually participated in the threads you're complaining about and actually asked (semi tongue in cheek, hands down trousers) to see a picture of one of the female contributors to this thread because she said she had had loads of unwelcome chauvinistic attention!

Does not compute! :P

It does compute, I participated by posted sporting pictures of attractive women. I did not post pictures that are intended to objectify and demean them.

And IT WAS A JOKE.

Get over yourself and stop making more of it than it already is. :roll:

DonDaddyD

notsoblue wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

So what do you think should happen to the "Girls In" threads, DDD?

Nope, not me. I'm not making any suggestions. Too many people recognise my distinct frame and bike. I don't want to be chased home through London by any number of angry cyclists for closing down the "Girls in" threads...

Er, so you enjoy, participate in, and are too much of a wuss to say anything against "Girls in", but somehow you're still on Velo's side?

Colour me baffled...

Look, firstly I don't hold myself in such high regards as not to acknowledge that I can be, like most, hypocritical. humans are hypocrits and only those willing to lie to themselves would think overwise.

I posted a picture of Liz Hatch and Lizzie Armistead in the girls in lycra thread, yes. Would I post a picture of a woman taking a pee while sitting in a toilet or a woman enjoying a session in the doggy position as has been posted in Girls in realistic situations thread? No.

Do I watch porn, yes. Would I encourage my son to do porn, no. Do you, would you?

Do I enjoy sex, I love it. Would I ever feel comfortable knowing my son thinks the same things I do, no. Do you, would you?

I don't think it's for me to decide the fate of a thread. I've never called for a topic to be deleted, I will only raise discussions about the context and it's nature.

Yeah, still baffled...

If you can't see the difference in posting a picture like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... tstead.jpg which is what I posted and a picture of a woman sitting on the toilet having a pee or a woman bent over in the doggy position with a man behind her, then I honestly can't help you.

EKE_38BPM

Ooh, I'd like to go for a ride with her. I'd come up behind her and see who came first.

Oops, wrong thread.

notsoblue

DonDaddyD wrote:

If you can't see the difference in posting a picture like this:

and a picture of a woman sitting on the toilet having a pee or a woman in the doggy position with a man behind her, then I honestly can't help you.

Er, I'm not the one who posts on "Girl's In", DDD. I only know it from reputation and steer clear of Cakestop. I'm not sure why you've taken this tack?

Anyway, EKE posted a picture of Hatch and got accused of waving his boner about, so I'm really not sure if Armistadt is alright in this context anyway.

DonDaddyD

Nothing wrong with admiring the female form, like the Liz photo or that Hatch photo. Objectifying it in the way it has become in other spin of threads, I think is wrong. It's those threads that I agree with Velo on.

jonny_trousers

DonDaddyD wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

So what do you think should happen to the "Girls In" threads, DDD?

Nope, not me. I'm not making any suggestions. Too many people recognise my distinct frame and bike. I don't want to be chased home through London by any number of angry cyclists for closing down the "Girls in" threads...

Er, so you enjoy, participate in, and are too much of a wuss to say anything against "Girls in", but somehow you're still on Velo's side?

Colour me baffled...

Look, firstly I don't hold myself in such high regards as not to acknowledge that I can be, like most, hypocritical. humans are hypocrits and only those willing to lie to themselves would think overwise.

I posted a picture of Liz Hatch and Lizzie Armistead in the girls in lycra thread, yes. Would I post a picture of a woman taking a pee while sitting in a toilet or a woman enjoying a session in the doggy position as has been posted in Girls in realistic situations thread? No.

Do I watch porn, yes. Would I encourage my son to do porn, no. Do you, would you?

Do I enjoy sex, I love it. Would I ever feel comfortable knowing my son thinks the same things I do, no. Do you, would you?

I don't think it's for me to decide the fate of a thread. I've never called for a topic to be deleted, I will only raise discussions about the context and it's nature.

Yeah, still baffled...

If you can't see the difference in posting a picture like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... tstead.jpg which is what I posted and a picture of a woman sitting on the toilet having a pee or a woman bent over in the doggy position with a man behind her, then I honestly can't help you.

Aha! So you're happy with the "Women in Lycra" thread because it is cycling based? Mate, I like your posts, but you are being a massive hypocrite siding with Velocesrapture's stance here, and I can only assume you are doing so as it was another way for you to have a go at your latest nemesis, NSB. I'm sure I could dig out countless other's if I could be arsed, but here's an example of you trying stamp out the objectifying of women on web forums. It was posted in Commuting Chat too: viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12810401&hilit=i+voted+for

notsoblue

Feast your eyes on this, indeed.

velocestrapture

notsoblue wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

The thing is you are making the assumption that the same men who enjoy the "women in..." threads are the same ones who shout offensive abuse at lone women cyclists and I am certain that is wrong. I would bet 99% of the men here would not stand by and allow men to intimidate a woman with the kind of remarks MsMancunia mentioned. I'm sure they would either speak out or at the very least make sure that the girl was okay after the verbal attack. I doubt very many of us, however, would tell a mate off for saying, "Cor, look at the ars* on that" behind a woman's back (a verbal equivalent of those threads).

+1

I can honestly say that of all the times I have had lewd comments shouted at me in public or been groped in a bar or club, I have never had a male stranger step in and try to stop it. I don't recall that any of my friends have either. Have a look at the posts on this site http://ldn.ihollaback.org/. There are very few, if any, posts where women say that men have stepped in to stop abuse they were receiving from other men.

notsoblue

velocestrapture wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

The thing is you are making the assumption that the same men who enjoy the "women in..." threads are the same ones who shout offensive abuse at lone women cyclists and I am certain that is wrong. I would bet 99% of the men here would not stand by and allow men to intimidate a woman with the kind of remarks MsMancunia mentioned. I'm sure they would either speak out or at the very least make sure that the girl was okay after the verbal attack. I doubt very many of us, however, would tell a mate off for saying, "Cor, look at the ars* on that" behind a woman's back (a verbal equivalent of those threads).

+1

I can honestly say that of all the times I have had lewd comments shouted at me in public or been groped in a bar or club, I have never had a male stranger step in and try to stop it. I don't recall that any of my friends have either. Have a look at the posts on this site http://ldn.ihollaback.org/. There are very few, if any, posts where women say that men have stepped in to stop abuse they were receiving from other men.

I've done it, numerous times. I've got two younger sisters so I guess I'm more sensitive to it than some. You're right about it being so common and almost accepted by most people though. The times I have spoken up about it, the guy has been genuinely shocked that anyone would think to mention anything. If more people just communicated the fact that "This is not OK", then they simply wouldn't do it.

msmancunia

EKE_38BPM wrote:

From the lack of comment to my earlier post, I guess msmanc has no problem with where I draw the line.
I guess that I draw the line at roughly the same place as most men i.e.:
Sneaky peek: OK.
Leering, grabbing and shouting: Not OK.

Oops - begging your pardon; I did mean to reply but 1) I got diverted on a point someone else made and 2) someone asked me to actually do some work....

But for the record, I think your line is fine It's human nature to ogle - caught Gentleman Caller doing it only last week in the supermarket. Have to admit to the odd ogle myself. But some of the posts in CS, and the corresponding comments, are disrespectful, (and I hate that word now that the world's hoodies and every man and his dog have started to use it), and I don't really like them on a bike site.

msmancunia

DonDaddyD wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

And then you heap praise upon someone who claims to not objectify women but then has actually participated in the threads you're complaining about and actually asked (semi tongue in cheek, hands down trousers) to see a picture of one of the female contributors to this thread because she said she had had loads of unwelcome chauvinistic attention!

Does not compute! :P

It does compute, I participated by posted sporting pictures of attractive women. I did not post pictures that are intended to objectify and demean them.

And IT WAS A JOKE.

Get over yourself and stop making more of it than it already is. :roll:

For what it's worth - I did take it very tongue in cheek, and it did make me laugh. "Pics or it didn't happen" should be this board's catchphrase.

clarkey cat

I've done it, numerous times. I've got two younger sisters so I guess I'm more sensitive to it than some. You're right about it being so common and almost accepted by most people though. The times I have spoken up about it, the guy has been genuinely shocked that anyone would think to mention anything. If more people just communicated the fact that "This is not OK", then they simply wouldn't do it.

NSB - you are so hot to me right now.

jonny_trousers

velocestrapture wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

The thing is you are making the assumption that the same men who enjoy the "women in..." threads are the same ones who shout offensive abuse at lone women cyclists and I am certain that is wrong. I would bet 99% of the men here would not stand by and allow men to intimidate a woman with the kind of remarks MsMancunia mentioned. I'm sure they would either speak out or at the very least make sure that the girl was okay after the verbal attack. I doubt very many of us, however, would tell a mate off for saying, "Cor, look at the ars* on that" behind a woman's back (a verbal equivalent of those threads).

+1

I can honestly say that of all the times I have had lewd comments shouted at me in public or been groped in a bar or club, I have never had a male stranger step in and try to stop it. I don't recall that any of my friends have either. Have a look at the posts on this site http://ldn.ihollaback.org/. There are very few, if any, posts where women say that men have stepped in to stop abuse they were receiving from other men.

Well that is rather sad and unfortunately very believable. I was more specifically referring to a fellow cyclist under attack and the natural camaraderie we seem to share - I always stop to offer help to a fellow rider who looks like they might need it, no matter what their sex, and I'm pleased to say other cyclists have stopped for me. I do appreciate how intimidating those same pricks of men can be to other men too, which is why I suggested we would all at least check to see if the abused girl was okay if we didn't feel it was safe to attack the men back. You have identified a particularly unpleasant side of modern society and yes, it is mostly men dishing out the abuse, but alas not exclusively so. I've never experienced the sexual abuse DDD pretends - sorry, claims - to have suffered when on my bike from a woman, but I have experienced verbal abuse and light physical abuse (stuff being thrown at me) from them. I just put it down to them being selfish scumbags rather than them being sexist, however.

notsoblue

DonDaddyD wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

And then you heap praise upon someone who claims to not objectify women but then has actually participated in the threads you're complaining about and actually asked (semi tongue in cheek, hands down trousers) to see a picture of one of the female contributors to this thread because she said she had had loads of unwelcome chauvinistic attention!

Does not compute! :P

It does compute, I participated by posted sporting pictures of attractive women. I did not post pictures that are intended to objectify and demean them.

And IT WAS A JOKE.

Get over yourself and stop making more of it than it already is. :roll:

Look, I'm not criticising your joke here. That post wasn't even aimed at you. I'm just saying that its odd that EKE gets stick for posting up a pic of Hatch, and you can get away with posting pictures of women in the Girls in lycra shorts thread that was the cause of Velos discomfort. Does not compute...

notsoblue

clarkey cat wrote:

I've done it, numerous times. I've got two younger sisters so I guess I'm more sensitive to it than some. You're right about it being so common and almost accepted by most people though. The times I have spoken up about it, the guy has been genuinely shocked that anyone would think to mention anything. If more people just communicated the fact that "This is not OK", then they simply wouldn't do it.

NSB - you are so hot to me right now.

Really? And here I was thinking all this time you had a weakness for bad boys... In the end all I had to do was be myself

EKE_38BPM

msmancunia wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

From the lack of comment to my earlier post, I guess msmanc has no problem with where I draw the line.
I guess that I draw the line at roughly the same place as most men i.e.:
Sneaky peek: OK.
Leering, grabbing and shouting: Not OK.

Oops - begging your pardon; I did mean to reply but 1) I got diverted on a point someone else made and 2) someone asked me to actually do some work....

But for the record, I think your line is fine It's human nature to ogle - caught Gentleman Caller doing it only last week in the supermarket. Have to admit to the odd ogle myself. But some of the posts in CS, and the corresponding comments, are disrespectful, (and I hate that word now that the world's hoodies and every man and his dog have started to use it), and I don't really like them on a bike site.

Harsh

DonDaddyD

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Aha! So you're happy with the "Women in Lycra" thread because it is cycling based? Mate, I like your posts, but you are being a massive hypocrite siding with Velocesrapture's stance here, and I can only assume you are doing so as it was another way for you to have a go at your latest nemesis, NSB. I'm sure I could dig out countless other's if I could be arsed, but here's an example of you trying stamp out the objectifying of women on web forums. It was posted in Commuting Chat too: viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12810401&hilit=i+voted+for

There is nothing wrong with attraction, acknowledging attraction and admitting to finding something attractive. There are some women on bikes who are attractive. You cannot get away from the fact that there is something attractive and alluring about the opposite sex.

As Eke asserted earlier, the Women in Lycra thread started as an admiration of the female form on bikes dressed in lycra. At which point I partcipated.

The thread crossed the line when it deteriorated to encompass all women in lycra, naked women around lycra, women around bikes in sexual positions. If there was a thread of Men in lycra I wouldn't care. If there were four - five other threads with a similar premise but dedicated to sexual photo's of men, then I would be asking similar questions.

Still, like for like comparisons aside, the problem is compounded on because there are a lack of women who cycle and particpate on the website and threads like 'Women in realistic situations' only serves to strengthen the belief that sexism is prevalent in cycling.

Jonny Trousers wrote:

viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12810401&hilit=i+voted+for

On the face of it yes, it looks bad. However, in the opening sequence of the advert Kassidy pushes a model off the stage. The campagin was an Ann Summers campaign for real women with real figures. I'm sure the real women weren't too put out by the vote, they all look beautiful.

As for the vote itself, well, one would assume that a percentage of Ann Summers customers are men buying for their wives and girlfriends. They need to get men to engage with and understand the product somehow that is fun and not labourous.

I prented nothing it happened. -- > other post.

notsoblue

DonDaddyD wrote:

Still, like for like comparisons aside, the problem is compounded on because there are a lack of women who cycle and particpate on the website and threads like 'Women in realistic situations' only serves to strengthen the belief that sexism is prevalent in cycling.

I wonder though if this can be blamed for the fact that women don't cycle as much as men? May be correlation being mistaken for causation?

jonny_trousers

DonDaddyD wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Aha! So you're happy with the "Women in Lycra" thread because it is cycling based? Mate, I like your posts, but you are being a massive hypocrite siding with Velocesrapture's stance here, and I can only assume you are doing so as it was another way for you to have a go at your latest nemesis, NSB. I'm sure I could dig out countless other's if I could be arsed, but here's an example of you trying stamp out the objectifying of women on web forums. It was posted in Commuting Chat too: viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12810401&hilit=i+voted+for

There is nothing wrong with attraction, acknowledging attraction and admitting to finding something attractive. There are some women on bikes who are attractive. You cannot get away from the fact that there is something attractive and alluring about the opposite sex.

As Eke asserted earlier, the Women in Lycra thread started as an admiration of the female form on bikes dressed in lycra. At which point I partcipated.

The thread crossed the line when it deteriorated to encompass all women in lycra, naked women around lycra, women around bikes in sexual positions. If there was a thread of Men in lycra I wouldn't care. If there were four - five other threads with a similar premise but dedicated to sexual photo's of men, then I would be asking similar questions.

Still, like for like comparisons aside, the problem is compounded on because there are a lack of women who cycle and particpate on the website and threads like 'Women in realistic situations' only serves to strengthen the belief that sexism is prevalent in cycling.

Jonny Trousers wrote:

viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12810401&hilit=i+voted+for

On the face of it yes, it looks bad. However, in the opening sequence of the advert Kassidy pushes a model off the stage. The campagin was an Ann Summers campaign for real women with real figures. I'm sure the real women weren't too put out by the vote, they all look beautiful.

As for the vote itself, well, one would assume that a percentage of Ann Summers customers are men buying for their wives and girlfriends. They need to get men to engage with and understand the product somehow that is fun and not labourous.

I prented nothing it happened. -- > other post.

Mostly agree with you mate, and I have no problem with any of your numerous posts born of horniness. I just thought your burning-your-bra routine was a touch laughable.

velocestrapture

notsoblue wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Still, like for like comparisons aside, the problem is compounded on because there are a lack of women who cycle and particpate on the website and threads like 'Women in realistic situations' only serves to strengthen the belief that sexism is prevalent in cycling.

I wonder though if this can be blamed for the fact that women don't cycle as much as men? May be correlation being mistaken for causation?

It may not be the only cause, but you can't really say that it encourages women into cycling, can you? I know that when I first thought about joining my local club, I was a bit apprehensive as to the attitude I would encounter there. I know that several people from the club post on this forum, and the first time I went out I did wonder if the general atmosphere would be of a lad's locker room where women would be tolerated, but not quite feel they were fitting in.

I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but as you can probably tell, I am not one to be put off when I encounter attitudes I want to challenge, but I can quite see that someone less confrontational might have been discouraged from even trying the club for the same reason.

velocestrapture

God, I must go and do some work now. Be back later!

notsoblue

velocestrapture wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Still, like for like comparisons aside, the problem is compounded on because there are a lack of women who cycle and particpate on the website and threads like 'Women in realistic situations' only serves to strengthen the belief that sexism is prevalent in cycling.

I wonder though if this can be blamed for the fact that women don't cycle as much as men? May be correlation being mistaken for causation?

It may not be the only cause, but you can't really say that it encourages women into cycling, can you? I know that when I first thought about joining my local club, I was a bit apprehensive as to the attitude I would encounter there. I know that several people from the club post on this forum, and the first time I went out I did wonder if the general atmosphere would be of a lad's locker room where women would be tolerated, but not quite feel they were fitting in.

I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but as you can probably tell, I am not one to be put off when I encounter attitudes I want to challenge, but I can quite see that someone less confrontational might have been discouraged from even trying the club for the same reason.

Would be interesting to hear from women who didn't join clubs because they were made to feel uncomfortable by blokes being all lechy and rude. Female friends of mine who enjoy cycling just haven't joined cycling clubs because they feel they'll be too slow and will be left behind. One has recently joined a women only club that has lower tempo, more sociable rides. I'd suggest that most cycle clubs are male biased because they generally have a very competitive ethos and ride at faster speeds. Thats not to say that men are always faster than women at all (KateF still has my scalp) but there is gender correlation with riding styles...

More tentatively I'd suggest that women who *do* join predominantly male cycle clubs do so not because they're any better at putting up with male chauvenism, but because they enjoy that way of riding and can keep up just fine. Could be totally wrong though!

msmancunia

EKE_38BPM wrote:

msmancunia wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

From the lack of comment to my earlier post, I guess msmanc has no problem with where I draw the line.
I guess that I draw the line at roughly the same place as most men i.e.:
Sneaky peek: OK.
Leering, grabbing and shouting: Not OK.

Oops - begging your pardon; I did mean to reply but 1) I got diverted on a point someone else made and 2) someone asked me to actually do some work....

But for the record, I think your line is fine It's human nature to ogle - caught Gentleman Caller doing it only last week in the supermarket. Have to admit to the odd ogle myself. But some of the posts in CS, and the corresponding comments, are disrespectful, (and I hate that word now that the world's hoodies and every man and his dog have started to use it), and I don't really like them on a bike site.

Harsh

Haha - thank you! First line is the best

MonkeyMonster

notsoblue wrote:

More tentatively I'd suggest that women who *do* join predominantly male cycle clubs do so not because they're any better at putting up with male chauvenism, but because they enjoy that way of riding and can keep up just fine. Could be totally wrong though!

How dare you suggest any sorts of equality here!

clarkey cat

sexism is prevalent in cycling

this is probably my favourite ever quote on BR.

SteppenHerring

I know in our club that sometimes women are put off by sexist banter, excess testosterone and public urination. It is an issue. We have a pretty big membership but the number of active, riding women is extremely small. We could do with encouraging more - especially fit ones.

Stevo_666

SteppenHerring wrote:

We have a pretty big membership but the number of active, riding women is extremely small. We could do with encouraging more - especially fit ones.

If the PC police catch you they'll banish you to Cake Stop...

jonny_trousers

SteppenHerring wrote:

I know in our club that sometimes women are put off by sexist banter, excess testosterone and public urination. It is an issue. We have a pretty big membership but the number of active, riding women is extremely small. We could do with encouraging more - especially fit ones.

supersonic

If anyone finds a pic objectionable, or think it has broken da rulez, please flag it for moderation.

EKE_38BPM

supersonic wrote:

In the meantime, anyone got any pics of fit birds?

No fit birds, but heres a picture of a pair of great tits.