Girls in... threads but a no swearing plicy, makes no sense.

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I don't find myself aghast or offended at the "Girls in..." threads, I mean, women ARE more attractive than men in general

Uh-huh. Just aesthetically, right? I mean, I'm not asking whether you've ever been curious or anything, because that would be rude. Really hot-rude. But as I was saying, you know, if you've been curious, that's cool. Really cool actually. Especially if you've ever wondered about, well, you know, scratching an itch 'n' all. Because, well, you see, you might want a record of it. For posterity. Or your grandchildren. And, see, I've got an iPhone that can shoot video and everything. It's really cool.

Yeah, it would be *so* cool. You get that, right?

So, some day soon? This weekend maybe? I can make some available at short notice I reckon. Give me about 20 minutes notice. Tops.

Call me!

IRL lols



For some reason, despite what I just said, slightly lecherous posts are fine as long as they're also funny.

Yes but that's because you have built up a level of familiarity with Greg that makes you feel at ease, comfortable and more willing to accept jokes of this nature from him.

Same goes for girl being 'boobgrabbed' at random by her boyfriend but if a stranger did it....

rjsterry

velocestrapture wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

That's a bit of a sweeping statement. Do you speak up about *everything* that you consider to be questionable or inappropriate? Personally, my few ventures over to Crudcatcher have indicated that the Girls... threads are of a piece with the general feel of that board - pretty juvenile - and it's put me off going back (not that I even own an MTB). I'm not sure what good me complaining on this board would do, and complaining on Crudcatcher would be like telling teenagers to keep the noise down. I'm surprised it's not moderated more closely, but I don't set the guidance for the mods.

Most of the 'Girls ...' threads are in Cake Stop, which I do read as I cycle for fun/ do sportives etc as well as commute.

Actually, I do speak up about most things that I consider to be questionable or inappropriate. Certainly I try to make sure that I do speak up about questionable or inappropriate things that I think are important to tackle, but then being opinionated and making a fuss is kind of what I do for a living (on behalf of other people). I do wonder (and it is a genuine question, not a dig) why many men who profess to wish that the world were a safer, less sexist place for their wives/girlfriends/daughters/sisters don't do more to speak up against attitudes to women that are inappropriate or questionable. Is it because they don't really see it as important? Or that it doesn't directly affect them? Or they are worried that if they do it will affect their standing in the view of other men?

Are they? Well that shows you how often I stray from the Commuting forum. Pretty much every time I've had a look in another forum (with the exception of the classifieds) I've come straight back. If it was all like Cake Stop or Crudcatcher, I'd just not use BR. Given the way the website is funded through advertising, lack of visitors would kill it pretty quickly. I agree with LiT that the Cakestop/Crudcatcher attitudes occasionally spill over into Commuting, and the forum would benefit from a more balanced membership. To answer your bigger question, I think your suggestions probably cover a lot of it, but I think there's also a question of priorities - I'd say there are plenty of bigger problems facing women that need tackling before a few risque pictures and some juvenile comments on one small part of a website.

sketchley

@velocestrapture I would speak out if I consider it to be questionable or inappropriate, I don't. What is it about the threads that you consider to be questionable or inappropriate? This isn't a dig, I genuinely would like to understand the argument better as to me they look mostly like pictures of consenting professional models, most of them seem to be advertising shots of one kind or another.

velocestrapture

Sketchley wrote:

@velocestrapture I would speak out if I consider it to be questionable or inappropriate, I don't. What is it about the threads that you consider to be questionable or inappropriate? This isn't a dig, I genuinely would like to understand the argument better as to me they look mostly like pictures of consenting professional models, most of them seem to be advertising shots of one kind or another.

Firstly, there have been three women on this post (two regular posters) who have spoken out and said that it makes them feel uncomfortable and contributes to the site feeling un-female friendly. Do you need any further reason?

Secondly, some of the images are or are very close to being soft porn. Pornography as an industry (I accept not every person who participates in it) contributes to women being sexually abused, trafficked for the purposes of sexual exploitation and becoming hooked on drugs. Research shows that significant majority of women who become involved in pornography come from backgrounds where they have already suffered some form of abuse, and go on to suffer further abuse in their work. Soft porn and and 'glamour' modelling contributes to the continuation of the pornography industry and normalises the presence of pornographic images of women in society, making it easier for more hardcore stuff to gain a foothold.

Thirdly, this is a cycling forum. What relevance to cycling does looking at images of half-naked women have? Women are bombarded with messages on a daily basis that they are there to be objectified and their appearance commented on. Cycling, like most other sports, should be a space where women have the chance to celebrate what their bodies can do, rather than worry what they look like. Is it really too much to ask that we have a space to enjoy this without a constant reminder that a significant proportion of men care more about women looking sexually available than they do about the fact that we may beat them to the top of the next hill?

msmancunia

velocestrapture wrote:

msmancunia wrote:

At the risk of opening a huge catering size can of worms, and being of the female persuasion, I have to admit that I avoid Cake Stop because of all the "Girls in..." threads. I'm not a burn your bra, woman in sensible shoes feminist - but I do find it a bit, um, letchy and juvenile, to be honest.

I agree, msmancunia, but can't help noticing the slightly tentative, apologetic tone of your post. This goes back to what I said earlier about women facing accusations of being spoil-sports if they speak up and say that certain behaviour actually makes them feel quite uncomfortable.

Yes, it does come across as apologetic, I guess. Don't get me wrong - I worked as a chef for six years in almost exclusively male kitchens which are notoriously laddish, so I can hold my own when it comes to wind-ups and banter, but, like I said, there's a time and a place, and I don't want to seem a kill-joy. Pictures of naked women don't particularly offend me, I just don't really want to see them (or the comments) on a cycling website.

Sketchley points out that they are "consenting models" - yeah, I have no problem with that. I just don't want to see them when I'm reading about bikes! There's millions and millions and millions of soft/medium/hard/weird porn on the internet as it is - so why should it encroach on a bike site?

I think road cycling has a reputation generally of not being girl-friendly, more so than, say, BMX or MTB - from a woman's point of view it can come across as very elitist and male-dominated, especially when you're new to it. British Cycling are trying to get more women on bikes, and for good reason judging by the size of some of the girls in the UK. But they aren't going to get very far if the sport alienates 50% of the population because they feel shut out. Things like Girls in... threads and sexist staff in bike shops (yep, they do exist) don't help things.

MonkeyMonster

velocestrapture wrote:

Is it really too much to ask that we have a space to enjoy this without a constant reminder that a significant proportion of men care more about women looking sexually available than they do about the fact that we may beat them to the top of the next hill?

Of course not, but if you have a genuinely mixed forum then it will occur. It did start out with girls in lycra thread afaik - the extra knitwear etcs are people sailing very close to the line and have been allowed because it hasn't gone too far (or been cleaned if it has) - if they were to be deleted and a little post made, there would be some grumbles but it wouldn't be much tbh. If a group wanted to have a very feminine based thread or area it would be allowed and of course you'd also get some abuse from the knuckle draggers. Nothing is stopping you- you might even get it access controlled if you ask nicely. Perhaps you should ask for cake stop or some of the threads to be made invisible then you needn't know it exists right there in the bike forum.

You wouldn't necessarily expect hardcore building DOY thread on mumsnet would you. It'd be shunned by the majority of mums but (likely) the dads would go mental in it. There are always going to be areas of any forum that some think unsuitable. The number of posters... in the girl in threads is actually quite small compared to the total number of readers of BR.

anyway...

notsoblue

I think you're making a bit much of this velocestrapture. I agree with what others have said about the tone of the "Girls in" threads. Pictures are fine. Some of the posts are a bit lechy, but these threads are easy enough to avoid. I'm never really in any other part of this forum, largely because I like the people here. Even the fascists. The forums are a bit tribal, the reason why you don't see threads like "Girls in" in Commuting Chat is because I don't think enough of the regulars would really participate in them if they were posted here. Or it would go way off topic. Like this one has, in fact. I doubt the posts you've made in this thread would have had the same reception in Cakestop.

I don't think the mods should censor these threads. They're pretty harmless, and it wouldn't stop the leches leching (which is what I think you don't like) :P

velocestrapture

rjsterry wrote:

I agree with LiT that the Cakestop/Crudcatcher attitudes occasionally spill over into Commuting, and the forum would benefit from a more balanced membership. To answer your bigger question, I think your suggestions probably cover a lot of it, but I think there's also a question of priorities - I'd say there are plenty of bigger problems facing women that need tackling before a few risque pictures and some juvenile comments on one small part of a website.

I agree that there are bigger problems facing women, but this is part of the bigger problem and has a trickle down effect in contributing to it.

As I said above, three women on this thread (which amounts to a significant proportion of the women who post on here) have said that the 'Girls ...' threads make them feel uncomfortable and contribute to the general attitude to women on this forum. Does that discomfort not amount to a serious enough reason to label it a problem?

As has been picked up on, the threads do have the effect of making this site feel unwelcoming to women, which has the effect of discouraging them from posting here, which means that less women get to hear about and miss encouragement to join their local club or try a sportive, which means that cycling is perceived as a male sport, and there are less women who take up cycling in the first place.

The acceptance of showing such images on a mixed gender public forum also contributes to the sort of attitudes that mean that my friend was pursued down the street recently when on her bike by a couple of men in a car who were hanging out the window shouting that they wished they were her bike and would they like to ride them? Because if women are happy to pose for provocative pictures for men to ogle in public, they they all must secretly enjoy having men ogle them in public, and if they don't they are abnormal, right?

Yes, there are bigger things for women to worry about than provocative pictures on a public forum, but I am not suggesting that you have to go out and start campaigning against FGM or even write to your MP in protest about all the funding that is being pulled from women's refuges in the UK. But is it really too much to ask that you take a bit of responsibility for tackling the problems that do occur in your personal sphere? If you lived under Apartheid, but professed yourself to be against racism, would you really stand by and say nothing if one of your mates in the pub started making mildly racist jokes, even if you knew your black friends could overhear it? Would you not say to the friend "Come on mate, that's a bit off" and try and discourage them? Why should there be an less of an expectation on men to tackle sexism?

EKE_38BPM

The Girls in lycra shorts started off with pictures of female cyclists. That was many pictures ago and things have moved on and the scope has broadened.

I think that seeing healthy women (and athletes are healthy, right?) who are comfortable with their bodies and who are not showing it off for the tittilation of others but wear what they are wearing in the pursuit of their sport is not a bad thing and I like to see it.

velocestrapture

EKE_38BPM wrote:

The Girls in lycra shorts started off with pictures of female cyclists. That was many pictures ago and things have moved on and the scope has broadened.

I think that seeing healthy women (and athletes are healthy, right?) who are comfortable with their bodies and who are not showing it off for the tittilation of others but wear what they are wearing in the pursuit of their sport is not a bad thing and I like to go on in public about how aroused they make me feel, because you all want to know what I get a hard-on to, right?

FTFY

rjsterry

velocestrapture wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

I agree with LiT that the Cakestop/Crudcatcher attitudes occasionally spill over into Commuting, and the forum would benefit from a more balanced membership. To answer your bigger question, I think your suggestions probably cover a lot of it, but I think there's also a question of priorities - I'd say there are plenty of bigger problems facing women that need tackling before a few risque pictures and some juvenile comments on one small part of a website.

I agree that there are bigger problems facing women, but this is part of the bigger problem and has a trickle down effect in contributing to it.

As I said above, three women on this thread (which amounts to a significant proportion of the women who post on here) have said that the 'Girls ...' threads make them feel uncomfortable and contribute to the general attitude to women on this forum. Does that discomfort not amount to a serious enough reason to label it a problem?

As has been picked up on, the threads do have the effect of making this site feel unwelcoming to women, which has the effect of discouraging them from posting here, which means that less women get to hear about and miss encouragement to join their local club or try a sportive, which means that cycling is perceived as a male sport, and there are less women who take up cycling in the first place.

The acceptance of showing such images on a mixed gender public forum also contributes to the sort of attitudes that mean that my friend was pursued down the street recently when on her bike by a couple of men in a car who were hanging out the window shouting that they wished they were her bike and would they like to ride them? Because if women are happy to pose for provocative pictures for men to ogle in public, they they all must secretly enjoy having men ogle them in public, and if they don't they are abnormal, right?

Yes, there are bigger things for women to worry about than provocative pictures on a public forum, but I am not suggesting that you have to go out and start campaigning against FGM or even write to your MP in protest about all the funding that is being pulled from women's refuges in the UK. But is it really too much to ask that you take a bit of responsibility for tackling the problems that do occur in your personal sphere? If you lived under Apartheid, but professed yourself to be against racism, would you really stand by and say nothing if one of your mates in the pub started making mildly racist jokes, even if you knew your black friends could overhear it? Would you not say to the friend "Come on mate, that's a bit off" and try and discourage them? Why should there be an less of an expectation on men to tackle sexism?

Well honestly, I think my time would be better spent doing that than complaining to BR. If I were to do something about the Girls... threads, it would be to report the posts to the mods as I have done with other posts that I've thought unacceptable, but in this case, the mods have already given their tacit acceptance of the threads. TBH, I didn't even know the knitwear and rainwear threads existed, and the lycra thread is known more by reputation than anything else.

EKE_38BPM

velocestrapture wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

The Girls in lycra shorts started off with pictures of female cyclists. That was many pictures ago and things have moved on and the scope has broadened.

I think that seeing healthy women (and athletes are healthy, right?) who are comfortable with their bodies and who are not showing it off for the tittilation of others but wear what they are wearing in the pursuit of their sport is not a bad thing and I like to go on in public about how aroused they make me feel, because you all want to know what I get a hard-on to, right?

FTFY

I cannot tell a lie, I find athletic women attractive. Thanks for outing me.

notsoblue

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I cannot tell a lie, I find athletic women attractive. Thanks for outing me.

You're everything thats wrong in the world, EKE.

msmancunia

EKE - I think there's a very fine line between what you like to see on a cycling chat page and what I don't particularly want to see on a cycling chat page. My point isn't what people are posting so much, it's where they're posting it.

In fact, there's a very fine line between what's sexist and what isn't, and I wish people would tread on the side of caution - there's a rise in rape "jokes" at the moment, that Unilad website got banned, and the milder weather seems to have brought out all the idiots. In the past three weeks I've had two "wish my face was that saddle" - one from an MTB commuter no less, one guy similating oral sex at me while he was in the passenger seat of a car at the lights, one guy said he liked blondes and asked if my "collar and cuffs matched" and one guy try and slap my arse as he drove past. At what point does making pervy comments about girls in cycling gear/rainwear/knitwear whatever, become something a bit more sinister and creepy? And how would you feel if this happened to your wives/girlfriends/daughters? I give as good as I get, but the shy retiring wallflowers would probably think twice before getting on a bike again, which is a real shame.

So where DO you draw the line?

MonkeyMonster

Your Brain wrote:

brilliant question that answered itself and was more of a thought plus realisation they will never actually make any difference because much as anyone on a forum might want to be able to change the world they can't - they might be able to effect a change on the forum itself but if money is involved they likely won't.

velocestrapture

notsoblue wrote:

I think you're making a bit much of this velocestrapture.

Why do you think I am making a bit much of it?

notsoblue wrote:

I don't think the mods should censor these threads. They're pretty harmless, and it wouldn't stop the leches leching (which is what I think you don't like) :P

All the women who have posted on this thread agree that it makes them feel uncomfortable. Is that not sufficient reason to make something of it? Do you think our feelings of discomfort are unreasonable? Or that we should put aside our feelings because the feelings of those men who want to leer at women in public are more important? Or that a woman standing up and challenging accepted male behaviour makes you feel uncomfortable, and you would rather I just shut up and go away than you have to confront the possibility that I have a point?

MonkeyMonster

msmancunia wrote:

So where DO you draw the line?

I cross some lines (not your sexist ones) all the time but have never said or made any of those classic's.

The people who made those comments irl or gestures are not the sort to be here (or most). Greg66 for instance might well be a web based jack the lad with people he's known for years but put him with unknowns and he is the epitamy of a gentleman (pm me for bank details).

I'd like to think that the type of person going to slap an arse while hooting out of the car window is the sort who has issues turning on his kettle, let alone a pc - his behaviour certainly suggests he would.

DonDaddyD

I just don't want to see them when I'm reading about bikes!

Ms Mancunia and velocestrapture, both of you echo the above point of view. Where do you stand on a advert like this?



Now, as juvenile and as sexually open as I can be (and it does irritate me that some prudish and poe face users on here shirk at and treat as taboo sexual comments/discussions/topics and yet advocate the existence of the 'Girls in...' threads), I agree with your point and have long since said that a lot of women bike related adverts are created by men for men to be sold and used by women and the Assos 'boob-bib' demonstrates this. But it does signify a problem with your stance, where do you draw the line? If the Girls in thread kept to topic and showed pictures of sexualised women in lycra or bikes or both would you still find it as abhorrent?

mm wrote:

The number of posters... in the girl in threads is actually quite small compared to the total number of readers of BR.

Doesn't make it right, doesn't mean that it should be tolerated if it causes offence even to a minority group.

NSB wrote:

I think you're making a bit much of this velocestrapture

What if she is? When you and Rick go all 'lefty' on us complaining about how we aren't 'Dutch' enough do we dismiss you by claiming you're simply making too much of it or do we acknowledge and engage in meaningful discussion?

Clearly velocestrapture wants to discuss it in depth and is doing so in a constructive manner. It irks me when people disagree with something choose to dismiss the person as 'simply making a bit much of it' and yet when they have an axe to grind enjoy the benefits of their discussions taking up a whole day.

The pictures do objectify women, they aren't welcoming to women and the comments compound on these things. Have I posted in those threads? Yes. Do I laugh? Yes. But I don't for one second ignore what they are or the negative effect on the website.

I don't think velocestrapture is wrong on this one.

DonDaddyD

msmancunia wrote:

the milder weather seems to have brought out all the idiots. In the past three weeks I've had two "wish my face was that saddle" - one from an MTB commuter no less, one guy similating oral sex at me while he was in the passenger seat of a car at the lights, one guy said he liked blondes and asked if my "collar and cuffs matched" and one guy try and slap my ars* as he drove past.

Jaysus how fit are you? Pics or it didn't happen.

<<Don't worry I'll go flog myself with the 'cat of nine' and stand in the corner...>>

At what point does making pervy comments about girls in cycling gear/rainwear/knitwear whatever, become something a bit more sinister and creepy? And how would you feel if this happened to your wives/girlfriends/daughters? I give as good as I get, but the shy retiring wallflowers would probably think twice before getting on a bike again, which is a real shame.

And threads like 'Girls in' help perpetuate this type of attitude.

EKE_38BPM

msmancunia wrote:

So where DO you draw the line?

Watching a women's sporting event and thinking "She's fit": Fine
Going to a women's sporting event to see fit women: Not fine

Seeing a female cycle commuter and thinking "She's fit": Fine
Chasing a female cycle commuter on the road to shout out that I think she's fit: Not fine

Seeing my girlfriend dressed in lycra as we're going out for a ride: Fine
Asking my girlfriend to dress in lycra for bedroom athletics: None of your business!

rjsterry

msmancunia wrote:

EKE - I think there's a very fine line between what you like to see on a cycling chat page and what I don't particularly want to see on a cycling chat page. My point isn't what people are posting so much, it's where they're posting it.

In fact, there's a very fine line between what's sexist and what isn't, and I wish people would tread on the side of caution - there's a rise in rape "jokes" at the moment, that Unilad website got banned, and the milder weather seems to have brought out all the idiots. In the past three weeks I've had two "wish my face was that saddle" - one from an MTB commuter no less, one guy similating oral sex at me while he was in the passenger seat of a car at the lights, one guy said he liked blondes and asked if my "collar and cuffs matched" and one guy try and slap my ars* as he drove past. At what point does making pervy comments about girls in cycling gear/rainwear/knitwear whatever, become something a bit more sinister and creepy? And how would you feel if this happened to your wives/girlfriends/daughters? I give as good as I get, but the shy retiring wallflowers would probably think twice before getting on a bike again, which is a real shame.

So where DO you draw the line?

A lot of the behaviour you describe above is not limited to female cyclists; I've had plenty of (presumably sarcastic) comments on my ars*, and worse. I think some knuckle draggers just like shouting at moving objects.

MonkeyMonster

DonDaddyD wrote:

mm wrote:

The number of posters... in the girl in threads is actually quite small compared to the total number of readers of BR.

Doesn't make it right, doesn't mean that it should be tolerated if it causes offence even to a minority group.

never said it did - merely pointing out that there is always perspective needed. Is it bad that there are scantily clad pictures anywhere or here or when on here that they are in an area called cake stop or that some of the "normal" readers in chat have commented and thus forever tainted by association or that all men in chat need to rise up and ask the mods to stop allowing threads or we need to talk more about what is sexualisation and why is it fine on a BR thread but not when it's your 9 year old daughter wanting a padded bra from primark etc. Perspective.

jonny_trousers

velocestrapture wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

All the women who have posted on this thread agree that it makes them feel uncomfortable. Is that not sufficient reason to make something of it? Do you think our feelings of discomfort are unreasonable? Or that we should put aside our feelings because the feelings of those men who want to leer at women in public are more important? Or that a woman standing up and challenging accepted male behaviour makes you feel uncomfortable, and you would rather I just shut up and go away than you have to confront the possibility that I have a point?

You have every right to make your point, but what you do not have the right to do is to make assumptions about every male visitor to this site's attitude towards equality or sexism simply because we do not share your view of the severity of those particular threads. If you feel so strongly then you should contact the site admin again and use your argument to suggest they change what may or may not be posted here. Perhaps you could persuade the other two woman who have agreed with you about the matter to make a complaint too?

DonDaddyD

When I was on the train this woman stared at me so much it gave me an erection and then I got self concious that everyone was staring at me.

I've been told the women here refer to me as "eye candy" when I come arrive in my cycling gear. How long must they have suffered...

Then there was that woman who actually rolled her car backwards at the traffic lights to check out my butt. She had her finger in her mouth and everything...

AND that woman at a previous job who would always hold my bum in the kitchen when I was making coffee and used to place her hand on my knee at meetings... She showed me who was boss after the X-mas party though...

Women do it too!

msmancunia

DonDaddyD wrote:

msmancunia wrote:

the milder weather seems to have brought out all the idiots. In the past three weeks I've had two "wish my face was that saddle" - one from an MTB commuter no less, one guy similating oral sex at me while he was in the passenger seat of a car at the lights, one guy said he liked blondes and asked if my "collar and cuffs matched" and one guy try and slap my ars* as he drove past.

Jaysus how fit are you? Pics or it didn't happen.

<<Don't worry I'll go flog myself with the 'cat of nine' and stand in the corner...>>

At what point does making pervy comments about girls in cycling gear/rainwear/knitwear whatever, become something a bit more sinister and creepy? And how would you feel if this happened to your wives/girlfriends/daughters? I give as good as I get, but the shy retiring wallflowers would probably think twice before getting on a bike again, which is a real shame.

And threads like 'Girls in' help perpetuate this type of attitude.

haha fairly fit I guess - I think it's my "natural bum upholstery" coupled with padded cycling shorts that doesn't help I do cringe whenever I see those bib ads - like a girl is ever going to go out cycling like that.

But if the Girls in .... thread kept to topic - or indeed, if it went elsewhere (maybe a Bike Porn thread?!) - yes, I still don't like it, but at least it would be easier to avoid. I know that guys will always make comments about the female form (some of us have quite nice ones so I don't blame them!) - it's human nature, and I fully admit to occasionally making a comment to a friend about a guy I find attractive. But, oh I don't know, pub, football changing room, gym, whatever - I just don't think that the pictures/letchy comments belong on a mixed sex bike board.

And MonkeyMonster - I have a feeling that I have already been "Greg66'ed" - I felt honored and treated it as my BR initiation ritual....

DonDaddyD

MonkeyMonster wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

mm wrote:

The number of posters... in the girl in threads is actually quite small compared to the total number of readers of BR.

Doesn't make it right, doesn't mean that it should be tolerated if it causes offence even to a minority group.

never said it did - merely pointing out that there is always perspective needed. Is it bad that there are scantily clad pictures anywhere or here or when on here that they are in an area called cake stop or that some of the "normal" readers in chat have commented and thus forever tainted by association or that all men in chat need to rise up and ask the mods to stop allowing threads or we need to talk more about what is sexualisation and why is it fine on a BR thread but not when it's your 9 year old daughter wanting a padded bra from primark etc. Perspective.

I don't understand your above point about perspective.

The imapct of a thread isn't judged on the number of participants but by the content as you don't have to log-in to read it or view it. You only need to log-in to comment.

Lycra shorts has 3237803 views That's three million, two hundred and thirty seven thousand, eight hundred and three views.

Short Skirts has 62092 views
Knitwear has 254836 views
Realistic situation has 16274 views
Rainwear has 12422 views

Our beloved silly commuter racing has 2498625

So I would argue that the existence of the thread and it's potential exposure is far more reaching and influencing than the number of actual participants. At that level you do have to question what impact does it have on users of this board or potential user (female). You also have to question what does it say about cycling's attitude to female cyclists. The fact that it has spawned other threads completely unrelated to cycling that also objectify women practically answers it's own question. I think that goes some way to giving perspective.

I think we do need to talk more about sexism in cycling, yes.

jonny_trousers

DonDaddyD wrote:

Those Assos ads, ridiculous though they may be, do not exclusively sexualise women. I mean, who the hell would cycle like this?



All pretty harmless, though. We are all human, humans like looking at and associating themselves with pretty things.

jzed

Should have read the prior page - already answered

jonny_trousers

The hypocrisy from certain quarters on this thread is staggering. Still, if it gets you a cheeky shag out of it, I suppose...

notsoblue

velocestrapture wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

I think you're making a bit much of this velocestrapture.

Why do you think I am making a bit much of it?

notsoblue wrote:

I don't think the mods should censor these threads. They're pretty harmless, and it wouldn't stop the leches leching (which is what I think you don't like) :P

All the women who have posted on this thread agree that it makes them feel uncomfortable. Is that not sufficient reason to make something of it? Do you think our feelings of discomfort are unreasonable? Or that we should put aside our feelings because the feelings of those men who want to leer at women in public are more important? Or that a woman standing up and challenging accepted male behaviour makes you feel uncomfortable, and you would rather I just shut up and go away than you have to confront the possibility that I have a point?

Well to be honest, I do think you have a point. And I partially agree with what you say. I personally don't spend much time in Cakestop because I'm not particularly interested in the kind of stuff that gets posted there, specifically when its in the vein the posts you see in "Girls In". And I can appreciate that if some of the posts make me feel uncomfortable, then it must be worse for people like you who stumble upon it. Its perfectly reasonable to feel that way. And its reasonable to want to see that changed. But practically, I don't think thats going to happen in the way you want it to. Posts make a forum, and people make posts. To achieve what you want to achieve the moderators would have to force the majority of Cakestop regulars to change the way they think about women and how they choose to express themselves, which is probably jut how they are in real life. If BR were to crack down and censor every post that caused you (reasonable) discomfort then people in cakestop would just leave and the character of the sub forum would probably just turn into something like Commuting General. It would be like banning political discussion or SCR on Commuting Chat. Most people just wouldn't come here any more.

I think thats why the moderators haven't done anything. And the reason I think you're making a bit much of this, and why I think its harmless is because the stuff that makes people feel discomfort is largely ghettoised in Cakestop. When I go there I see exactly what I expect to see.