Damaged car - who pays?
Sewinman
Posts: 2,131
My colleague stacked it in to the back of a taxi last night. His fault completely. I happened to walk past and found him arguing with the Taxi driver, who wanted him to give him 300 cash there and then. I intervened and stopped that happening and they exchanged details. But I wondered what claim the driver had over my colleague for the damage, if any?
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As I understand it, your colleague would be personally liable for the damages if they were at fault, though that's not to say they'll actually be forced to pay up, depending on the circumstances and what the taxi driver does. If he has 3rd-party insurance he should contact them, or check his home insurance policy for legal protection. If he doesn't have any of those the taxi driver is basically in the position of being hit by an uninsured driver, however, this might be mitigated by the fact that many taxi drivers (minicabs more than black cabs) can't go through official channels because they're acting, ahem, unofficially themselves.0
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The taxi driver can pursue for reasonable losses as a result of your colleague's negligence.
Generally, the common heads of claim are repairs and loss of use/hire of a replacement vehicle/loss of earnings (in principle they can only go after one of that latter three).
Whether he will is another matter. Cyclists don't generally have liability insurance, so many won't bother going after them.0 -
That's good going costing up the repair and making it exactly 300 notes, on the spot. Sounds like an undue eagerness to avoid going through any of the more formal processes to me.0
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Cheers, my colleague has third party insurance with London cyclists or some such.0
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Reminds me, best renew my cycling membership with someone! Glad he has insurance, the Taxi drivers can go through the processes with them...0
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Repeat after me.
Tell your mate to tell the Taxi driver to "F.U.C.K OFF!"
If had been hit by a car would he have demanded £300 notes there and then. If the other driver had been of the sizable variety would he have even made any demand of any kind other than (i) asking nicely for the details (ii) possibly contacted the police.
My understanding is that cyclists aren't legally required to have any form of insurance so his motivation for asking for £300 notes (that's asking for a David Haye special surely?) is because he quickly surmised that the cyclist wouldn't have insurance and he wouldn't be able to track the cyclist down after he had ridden away. (Which is what your mate should have done if he could have). Shut up rick chasey about strict liability.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
It should be reported to the police within 24 hours as well, as it is a collision on the public highway involving a vehicle.Cannondale Synapse 105, Giant Defy 3, Giant Omnium, Giant Trance X2, EMC R1.0, Ridgeback Platinum, On One Il Pompino...0
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Sounds like he's got 3rd party cover through LCC or CTC etc, give the cabbie those details and leave. It's his fault and he's got insurance so that's the end of it, obviously don't admit liability at the scene etc..
Just riding off is your best plan if you're not covered but in this case it will make an angry cabbie hate cyclists even more so let the insurance companies battle it out.
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TommyEss wrote:It should be reported to the police within 24 hours as well, as it is a collision on the public highway involving a vehicle.
Isn't this only the case if someone's been injured?.'Hello to Jason Isaacs'0 -
WTF?DonDaddyD wrote:Repeat after me.
Tell your mate to tell the Taxi driver to "F.U.C.K OFF!"
If had been hit by a car would he have demanded £300 notes there and then. If the other driver had been of the sizable variety would he have even made any demand of any kind other than (i) asking nicely for the details (ii) possibly contacted the police.
My understanding is that cyclists aren't legally required to have any form of insurance so his motivation for asking for £300 notes (that's asking for a David Haye special surely?) is because he quickly surmised that the cyclist wouldn't have insurance and he wouldn't be able to track the cyclist down after he had ridden away. (Which is what your mate should have done if he could have). Shut up rick chasey about strict liability.
Cyclist hits car.
Car driver is concerned cyclist is untraceable and might have no insurance.
Car driver requests costs to cover the damage.
That seems perfectly sensible so far? Why the hell should the cyclist just leave the scene if he's caused damage?
The cyclist isn't obliged to pay up on the spot, but is obliged to give details.0 -
Love it, so DDD is OK with hit and run and damage to others property?
If I ever damage someones bike I'll remember to walk away nonchalantly whistling...0 -
Koncordski wrote:Just riding off is your best plan if you're not covered but in this case it will make an angry cabbie hate cyclists even more so let the insurance companies battle it out.
"best plan" if you're a total knob, yes.0 -
schlepcycling wrote:TommyEss wrote:It should be reported to the police within 24 hours as well, as it is a collision on the public highway involving a vehicle.
Isn't this only the case if someone's been injured?.
I don't think so - I think it's just the fact that there's been a collision, so there could be claims for either damage or injury in due course. Put it this way, if the cabbie does claim, and it's not been reported, he could be charged with failing to report.Cannondale Synapse 105, Giant Defy 3, Giant Omnium, Giant Trance X2, EMC R1.0, Ridgeback Platinum, On One Il Pompino...0 -
"If a road traffic accident/collision happened on a road or a public place and the other driver failed to stop or there are injuries then you have to report the accident to the police."--
Chris
Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/50 -
TommyEss wrote:schlepcycling wrote:TommyEss wrote:It should be reported to the police within 24 hours as well, as it is a collision on the public highway involving a vehicle.
Isn't this only the case if someone's been injured?.
I don't think so - I think it's just the fact that there's been a collision, so there could be claims for either damage or injury in due course. Put it this way, if the cabbie does claim, and it's not been reported, he could be charged with failing to report.
Only if you can't give details at the scene.0 -
W1 wrote:
WTF?DonDaddyD wrote:Repeat after me.
Tell your mate to tell the Taxi driver to "F.U.C.K OFF!"
If had been hit by a car would he have demanded £300 notes there and then. If the other driver had been of the sizable variety would he have even made any demand of any kind other than (i) asking nicely for the details (ii) possibly contacted the police.
My understanding is that cyclists aren't legally required to have any form of insurance so his motivation for asking for £300 notes (that's asking for a David Haye special surely?) is because he quickly surmised that the cyclist wouldn't have insurance and he wouldn't be able to track the cyclist down after he had ridden away. (Which is what your mate should have done if he could have). Shut up rick chasey about strict liability.
Cyclist hits car.
Car driver is concerned cyclist is untraceable and might have no insurance.
Car driver requests costs to cover the damage.
That seems perfectly sensible so far? Why the hell should the cyclist just leave the scene if he's caused damage?
The cyclist isn't obliged to pay up on the spot, but is obliged to give details.
What right does the Taxi driver have to estimate an on the spot cost for damages that may or may not have been caused to his vehicle? What right has he to intimidate the cyclist? And he did or tried to because he demanded a large sum of money on the spot and wasn't backing down when the cyclist said no and an argument ensued. What was he going to do if the cyclist couldn't pay, or if Sewinman hadn't shown up, taken his bike as payment or leverage?
The cyclist isn't legally required to have insurance nor is the cyclist legally required to pay on the spot made up fees.
The driver can go fluff himself.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
The cyclist can refuse to pay on the spot but he cannot just ride off. He mus leave his details. But he is still liable and responsible. Telling someone to F off when you're in the wrong is stupid advice.DonDaddyD wrote:W1 wrote:
WTF?DonDaddyD wrote:Repeat after me.
Tell your mate to tell the Taxi driver to "F.U.C.K OFF!"
If had been hit by a car would he have demanded £300 notes there and then. If the other driver had been of the sizable variety would he have even made any demand of any kind other than (i) asking nicely for the details (ii) possibly contacted the police.
My understanding is that cyclists aren't legally required to have any form of insurance so his motivation for asking for £300 notes (that's asking for a David Haye special surely?) is because he quickly surmised that the cyclist wouldn't have insurance and he wouldn't be able to track the cyclist down after he had ridden away. (Which is what your mate should have done if he could have). Shut up rick chasey about strict liability.
Cyclist hits car.
Car driver is concerned cyclist is untraceable and might have no insurance.
Car driver requests costs to cover the damage.
That seems perfectly sensible so far? Why the hell should the cyclist just leave the scene if he's caused damage?
The cyclist isn't obliged to pay up on the spot, but is obliged to give details.
What right does the Taxi driver have to estimate a price on the spot for damages that may or may not have been caused to his vehicle? What right has he to intimidate the cyclist. And he did or tried to because he demanded a large sum of money on the spot and wasn't backing down when the cyclist said no and an argument ensued.
The cyclist isn't legally required to have insurance nor is the cyclist legally required to pay on the spot made up fees.
The driver can go fluff himself.
If I were hit by a cyclist I'd much rather attempt to sort it out at the roadside than risk getting nothing. Oh, and I'd be pretty angry about it too.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:W1 wrote:
WTF?DonDaddyD wrote:Repeat after me.
Tell your mate to tell the Taxi driver to "F.U.C.K OFF!"
If had been hit by a car would he have demanded £300 notes there and then. If the other driver had been of the sizable variety would he have even made any demand of any kind other than (i) asking nicely for the details (ii) possibly contacted the police.
My understanding is that cyclists aren't legally required to have any form of insurance so his motivation for asking for £300 notes (that's asking for a David Haye special surely?) is because he quickly surmised that the cyclist wouldn't have insurance and he wouldn't be able to track the cyclist down after he had ridden away. (Which is what your mate should have done if he could have). Shut up rick chasey about strict liability.
Cyclist hits car.
Car driver is concerned cyclist is untraceable and might have no insurance.
Car driver requests costs to cover the damage.
That seems perfectly sensible so far? Why the hell should the cyclist just leave the scene if he's caused damage?
The cyclist isn't obliged to pay up on the spot, but is obliged to give details.
What right does the Taxi driver have to estimate a price on the spot for damages that may or may not have been caused to his vehicle? What right has he to intimidate the cyclist. And he did or tried to because he demanded a large sum of money on the spot and wasn't backing down when the cyclist said no and an argument ensued.
The cyclist isn't legally required to have insurance nor is the cyclist legally required to pay on the spot made up fees.
The driver can go fluff himself.
Who said he intimidated the cyclist. If you had hit my car and tried to make off, you had better be David Haye. Some fecker bumped a little dent into the back of my bumper - £180. A scooter scratched my wheeler arch £120. £300 may be reasonable - how do you know?0 -
Interesting to compare this to what happens when a cyclists has a collision with a pedestrian, there is no injury, but damage to the bike. Last time that happened to me the guy just ran off, leaving me in a bloody concussed heap on the ground with a broken helmet and damaged wheel. I'm not sure what it is about cyclists that makes it any less socially acceptable for them to do the same. I guess its because they're vehicles, and vehicles need insurance in this country. From what I've heard its different in Denmark, where its pretty acceptable for people to have personal liability insurance for stuff like this.0
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Oh - I forgot - some fecker hit my door and drove off. Dent on the door crease - new door and half a respray - £1,800.0
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notsoblue wrote:Interesting to compare this to what happens when a cyclists has a collision with a pedestrian, there is no injury, but damage to the bike. Last time that happened to me the guy just ran off, leaving me in a bloody concussed heap on the ground with a broken helmet and damaged wheel. I'm not sure what it is about cyclists that makes it any less socially acceptable for them to do the same. I guess its because they're vehicles, and vehicles need insurance in this country. From what I've heard its different in Denmark, where its pretty acceptable for people to have personal liability insurance for stuff like this.
In principle it's no different. If the ped runs off, he's still a knob, and is still liable - if you can trace him.
Last time I got hit my a cyclist (as a cyclist) we sorted it out at the roadside based on what I thought the damage would cost to fix, and that was it.0 -
Cheers for the clarification W1 and Sketchley.
DD - of course the cyclist isn't required to have insurance to ride, and of course it's completely unreasonable of the taxi driver to expect cash on the spot - but it is the driver's right to put in a personal claim against the cyclist for damages he (the cyclist) caused through his own negligence - it's just easier for the cyclist to settle the claim if he has insurance - of course, if he doesn't have insurance he can settle it himself - but he should still pay for whatever damage he may have caused.Cannondale Synapse 105, Giant Defy 3, Giant Omnium, Giant Trance X2, EMC R1.0, Ridgeback Platinum, On One Il Pompino...0 -
Middle aged white guy in a suit, works in the city. Should be easy enough to track downW1 wrote:In principle it's no different. If the ped runs off, he's still a knob, and is still liable - if you can trace him.
What a knob though, just ran off after I noticed my bike was damaged. I think everyone should have personal liability insurance, and should wear numberplates.
Pretty lucky!W1 wrote:Last time I got hit my a cyclist (as a cyclist) we sorted it out at the roadside based on what I thought the damage would cost to fix, and that was it.0 -
notsoblue wrote:From what I've heard its different in Denmark, where its pretty acceptable for people to have personal liability insurance for stuff like this.
In Switzerland you have to buy a £7-8 "Velo Vignette" sticker every year, which gives you third party liability. If you are found to be riding without one you can be fined. Parents also have to have insurance for their kids walking to school in case they damage anything on the way (like absent-mindedly scratching a car parked by the pavement with an oversized rucksack!)Cannondale Synapse 105, Giant Defy 3, Giant Omnium, Giant Trance X2, EMC R1.0, Ridgeback Platinum, On One Il Pompino...0 -
W1 wrote:The cyclist can refuse to pay on the spot but he cannot just ride off. He mus leave his details. But he is still liable and responsible. Telling someone to F off when you're in the wrong is stupid advice.
The cyclist shouldn't have to refuse to pay, he should never have been asked. Had the taxi driver handled this properly I would be more sympathetic.
What the taxi driver should have done is get the cyclists details and in the event he couldn't trust the cyclist to be honest or fear of physical injury to the cyclist through the crash he should have called the police.
No, he asked for a made up figure and demanded it on the spot, which amounts to bullying at best extortion at worst and most likely intimidation, so therefore he can go fluff himself.
I would be angry too, I've been taken out by a cyclist that bent my gear hanger. Doesn't mean I go demanding £50 notes from him.If I were hit by a cyclist I'd much rather attempt to sort it out at the roadside than risk getting nothing. Oh, and I'd be pretty angry about it too.
Serious question what if it had been a girl and the taxi driver demanded £300 from her (all angry like) would your reaction be the same? What if it was a teenager, same reaction? You don't just go demanding and expecting money off people in situations like this.
What if the cyclist couldn't pay and Sewinman wasn't there, would it have been OK for the driver to take the bike as payment or assurance that he was going to be paid? Does he take the cyclists wallet? What's he going to do? Nothing. So why demand for money in the first place?JZed wrote:Who said he intimidated the cyclist. If you had hit my car and tried to make off, you had better be David Haye. Some fecker bumped a little dent into the back of my bumper - £180. A scooter scratched my wheeler arch £120. £300 may be reasonable - how do you know?
The cyclist has just crashed into a vehicle. Out comes an angry driver demanding money. He is told no and doesn't back down or stop demanding. We know this because an argument ensues, despite the cyclist freely admitting the crash was his fault. I feel secure in claimin the driver was trying to intimidate because he has no right to demand or ask for any money and doesn't stop doing so when told no.
Whether his £300 estimation may seem reasonable it's still an estimation and there is no legal requirement to pay.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Hence why it's not unreasonable to want to sort it out there and then, rather than rely on trust in a complete stranger.notsoblue wrote:
Middle aged white guy in a suit, works in the city. Should be easy enough to track downW1 wrote:In principle it's no different. If the ped runs off, he's still a knob, and is still liable - if you can trace him. What a knob though, just ran off after I noticed my bike was damaged. I think everyone should have personal liability insurance, and should wear numberplates.
Pretty lucky!W1 wrote:Last time I got hit my a cyclist (as a cyclist) we sorted it out at the roadside based on what I thought the damage would cost to fix, and that was it.
If you'd managed to get hold of the guy, I'm sure you'd rather have money in your hand asap. It's no different to the taxi driver in Sewinmans example - I can completely understand that, and £300 could be fairly minor damage.0 -
You've made a lot out of "arguing with the Taxi driver".DonDaddyD wrote:W1 wrote:The cyclist can refuse to pay on the spot but he cannot just ride off. He mus leave his details. But he is still liable and responsible. Telling someone to F off when you're in the wrong is stupid advice.
The cyclist shouldn't have to refuse to pay, he should never have been asked. Had the taxi driver handled this properly I would be more sympathetic.
What the taxi driver should have done is get the cyclists details and in the event he couldn't trust the cyclist to be honest or fear of physical injury to the cyclist through the crash he should have called the police.
No, he asked for a made up figure and demanded it on the spot, which amounts to bullying at best extortion at worst and most likely intimidation, so therefore he can go fluff himself.
I would be angry too, I've been taken out by a cyclist that bent my gear hanger. Doesn't mean I go demanding £50 notes from him.If I were hit by a cyclist I'd much rather attempt to sort it out at the roadside than risk getting nothing. Oh, and I'd be pretty angry about it too.
Serious question what if it had been a girl and the taxi driver demanded £300 from her (all angry like) would your reaction be the same? What if it was a teenager, same reaction? You don't just go demanding and expecting money off people in situations like this.
What if the cyclist couldn't pay and Sewinman wasn't there, would it have been OK for the driver to take the bike as payment or assurance that he was going to be paid? Does he take the cyclists wallet? What's he going to do? Nothing. So why demand for money in the first place?JZed wrote:Who said he intimidated the cyclist. If you had hit my car and tried to make off, you had better be David Haye. Some fecker bumped a little dent into the back of my bumper - £180. A scooter scratched my wheeler arch £120. £300 may be reasonable - how do you know?
The cyclist has just crashed into a vehicle. Out comes an angry driver demanding money. He is told no and doesn't back down or stop demanding. We know this because an argument ensues, despite the cyclist freely admitting the crash was his fault. I feel secure in claimin the driver was trying to intimidate because he has no right to demand or ask for any money and doesn't stop doing so when told no.
Whether his £300 estimation may seem reasonable it's still an estimation and there is no legal requirement to pay.0 -
I'm not saying the cyclist shouldn't pay. Had the driver gone through proper channels then yes, cyclist should pay.TommyEss wrote:Cheers for the clarification W1 and Sketchley.
DD - of course the cyclist isn't required to have insurance to ride, and of course it's completely unreasonable of the taxi driver to expect cash on the spot - but it is the driver's right to put in a personal claim against the cyclist for damages he (the cyclist) caused through his own negligence - it's just easier for the cyclist to settle the claim if he has insurance - of course, if he doesn't have insurance he can settle it himself - but he should still pay for whatever damage he may have caused.
What I'm saying is that, for me, the minute the driver asked for on the spot cash would have lost the liklihood of me paying at all and a proper argument taking place.
Do it properly or not at all.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Fair enough. I can imagine the way in which the taxi driver asked for the £300 didn't put Sewinman's mate in a cooperative mood though.W1 wrote:Hence why it's not unreasonable to want to sort it out there and then, rather than rely on trust in a complete stranger.
If you'd managed to get hold of the guy, I'm sure you'd rather have money in your hand asap. It's no different to the taxi driver in Sewinmans example - I can completely understand that, and £300 could be fairly minor damage.0
