Anaerobic endurance training - morning or evening?

Herbsman

I'm sure the answer to this question is 'whatever works best for you', so I will modify the question slightly... What works best for you - anaerobic endurance training in the morning or in the evening?

Apart from power sprints, it's the shortest (24 minutes total work interval) and hardest training session of the week for me. I prefer to do it in the morning, because it's so horrific, I like to get it out of the way on the first training day of the week (Tuesday), first thing in the morning. By Tuesday I've had a lot of rest and the last hard workout will have been three days ago. By doing it in the morning I don't have to spend the entire day dreading the training and I can spend the rest of the day recovering. By the end of the week it's a long-forgotten memory.

On the other hand if I did it in the evening I would be even more rested, as I'd have been sat on my arse at work for nine hours beforehand. And I would have had a lie-in, waking up an hour or more later. And I'd have been eating all day, which would (I believe) make sure my glycogen levels were sky high. BUT, it's not long until bedtime, and training hard in the evening sometimes makes me wide awake afterwards, sometimes making it hard for me to go to bed. If I don't sleep enough on Tuesday night as a result, this will affect the rest of the week's training. So it's hard for me to decide when's best to do it...

What works best for you?

Zingzang

Herbsman wrote:

If I don't sleep enough on Tuesday night as a result, this will affect the rest of the week's training.

If your frame of mind is such that the prospect of one night of curtailed sleep causes you this much concern, I'm surprised you manage to sleep normally the rest of the time.

One bad night will not affect your training for the rest of the week. The human body is capable of better than this.

Herbsman

Zingzang wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

If I don't sleep enough on Tuesday night as a result, this will affect the rest of the week's training.

If your frame of mind is such that the prospect of one night of curtailed sleep causes you this much concern, I'm surprised you manage to sleep normally the rest of the time.

One bad night will not affect your training for the rest of the week. The human body is capable of better than this.

Thanks for answering my question... oh, wait, you didn't.

I think you'll find that I know my body better than you do. After all, I've been in it a few decades. I know that when I train hard in the evening, I sometimes unable to get to sleep until late, and feel very tired the next day. Then when I finish work I need a nap, and don't have time to train afterwards. That's a fact, based on actual experience. Do you have any experience of being in my body that has led you to believe otherwise?

amaferanga

Why are you asking the question if you know your body so well!?

Morning intervals aren't for me - I'm fine riding in the morning or even a bit of threshold work, but not L6/L7 type stuff. I always do them in the evening, but then I don't find myself worrying about them all day like you do.

Out of interest, what are these intervals you do? 24 minutes would be a heck of a lot unless it's VO2max stuff you're doing in which case that'd sound about right. 24 minutes of L6 or above would seem like a lot for one session. How do you pace them?

mr prickles

Have you done your session in the evening yet ?

Why not try doing identical morning session one week and an evening the following week and gauge what feels better for you to give the desired training affect.

Herbsman

mr prickles wrote:

Have you done your session in the evening yet ?

Why not try doing identical morning session one week and an evening the following week and gauge what feels better for you to give the desired training affect.

Did them in the evening all the time last season.

Did it in the morning last week, was planning to do an evening sesh this week and see how I feel...

Herbsman

amaferanga wrote:

Why are you asking the question if you know your body so well!?

I'm curious about what other people do. Hence the question "What works best for you?" not "what do you think will work best for me"

Herbsman

amaferanga wrote:

Out of interest, what are these intervals you do? 24 minutes would be a heck of a lot unless it's VO2max stuff you're doing in which case that'd sound about right. 24 minutes of L6 or above would seem like a lot for one session. How do you pace them?

Depends how far away my main race is. E.g. closer to it, I might do 5 sets of 5 x 40 sec with 20 sec recovery, with (IIRC) 3 mins recovery between sets... which is about 16 minutes. Further back, 8 x 3min with 6 min recovery; 24 mins work. Although realistically, I do them hard enough that I can only manage 5-6 three minute work intervals. I pace these with RPE (and yes I know that's woefully inaccurate but given the situation at work I'm not going to spend £800 on power measurement any time soon)

Zingzang

Herbsman wrote:

I think you'll find that I know my body better than you do.

Not in dispute.

Herbsman wrote:

I sometimes unable to get to sleep until late, and feel very tired the next day. Then when I finish work I need a nap

Don't have the nap, then; just do the training as planned. If one night's broken sleep is enough to derail your training schedule, you must have the resilience of a squashed apricot.

cougie

It's very unusual for one nights shortened sleep to throw you out all week.
I race Ironman events and that usually means something like a 3 am waking up to start at 6am.
With the nerves it's very unusual to get more than a couple of hours sleep in - and that's before a 12 hour event. It doesn't seem to have any effect on the next day and even the day after I don't feel too tired.
Maybe make yourself do the work out before you have the nap ?

cyco2

A problem that can occur with athletes exercising at a high level in the evening is the production of endorphins. Plenty of explanations on google. Funnily if you got a good nights sleep after a 'good workout' you may not have worked out as high as you thought. :roll:. A way to lower the endorphins effect is to have a long cool down. Something like 1/2 hour plus to flush it out.

SBezza

I personally would do them in the evening as I know for me they would be better quality, sleeping after would not normally be a problem either, as long as I didn't down a load of caffiene before the session (some people do). As for the lack of sleep, one night will not make much difference at all for the rest of the week, I sometimes don't sleep very well for a few nights, you soon make it up.

As Cougie has mentioned, before important races I don't sleep that great, probably only getting a few hours, yet I seem to go OK in the races the following morning.

Herbsman

cougie wrote:

It's very unusual for one nights shortened sleep to throw you out all week.

Not all week, just the next day. I feel totally f*cked if I don't get enough sleep. I've not been so bad lately because I've made the effort to change my habits so that I get enough, but some nights I lie awake for hours unable to get to sleep then feel dizzy and ill all day the next day, struggle to keep my eyes open at work, struggle to ride the 5 miles home then go straight to bed. Unusual, yes, but true.

slog

I know what you mean about feeling a bit 'wired' if you train hard later in the evening. I do long course triathlon, and the way my week pans out, I have 2 hard swim sessions a week ending at 9.45 in the evening, so the time I get home, eat etc. I'm not ready to sleep much before midnight.
I get round this by taking my nutrition mega seriously, cat napping when I have to, and accepting that not every session is going to go spot on. Supplements wise, try taking double doses of HTFU pills, and whatever you do, don't have kids!!

mamba80

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