£400 on some Handbuilt wheels?

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  • davelakers
    davelakers Posts: 762
    KulaBen wrote:
    My Ksyrium Elites arrived on Friday- long ride in the peaks yesterday and they were superb. Very light and responsive, and not overly harsh. Merlin are doing them for £375 delivered.

    The price on the Merlin website is now £409. How/when did you get that price?
  • DF33
    DF33 Posts: 732
    Made the nipple inserter.

    Wheel jig to be made later this week. Trip to Spa for the spokes maybe tomorrow. :D

    IMG_0500-1.jpg
    Peter
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    edited March 2012
    what have you decided to builb. i agree, 36,28 is better then 32/32.
    some good info here. i did like harry does regarding heads in or heads out. titled trailing spokes.
    http://www.harryrowland.info/7394.html
  • DF33
    DF33 Posts: 732
    As it all started with a pair of DT 465 rims for £60 on offer, these with a pair of Novatec hubs and Sapim race db spokes / brass nipples. 32/32 hole. Should be under £140.
    Peter
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    nice, i went 105 hub and could find a 28 front.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    DF33 wrote:
    Made the nipple inserter.

    Wheel jig to be made later this week. Trip to Spa for the spokes maybe tomorrow. :D

    IMG_0500-1.jpg

    I love it... did you make it yourself out of a screwdriver?
    left the forum March 2023
  • DF33
    DF33 Posts: 732
    Thanks. cant take all the credit on this one although am an engineer and could have easily done it myself. old man had some silver steel bar laying about (ex engineer etc) so he bent it and filed the screwdriver wedge plus cut the nibs off the end - he's 92 and still cuts his own hedges etc so I ask him to do stuff as he likes to have a purpose every day. As his eyesight isn't perfect I then fine finished it. He then drilled an old file handle and fitted that.

    Easiest way is an old screwdriver of course. But hey, who knows how many father and son schemes there are left at his age so we like to make it complicated. :-)

    Reality is you can make one from an old screwdriver a la Roger Musson in half an hour as you know.

    Just setting off to Spa for the spokes. Going to use your measurements (front 292, nds293, but you used 291 drive side -Spa only stocks 290 and 292 for those so assume better to go down to 290.
    Peter
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    DF33 wrote:
    Thanks. cant take all the credit on this one although am an engineer and could have easily done it myself. old man had some silver steel bar laying about (ex engineer etc) so he bent it and filed the screwdriver wedge plus cut the nibs off the end - he's 92 and still cuts his own hedges etc so I ask him to do stuff as he likes to have a purpose every day. As his eyesight isn't perfect I then fine finished it. He then drilled an old file handle and fitted that.

    Easiest way is an old screwdriver of course. But hey, who knows how many father and son schemes there are left at his age so we like to make it complicated. :-)

    Reality is you can make one from an old screwdriver a la Roger Musson in half an hour as you know.

    Just setting off to Spa for the spokes. Going to use your measurements (front 292, nds293, but you used 291 drive side -Spa only stocks 290 and 292 for those so assume better to go down to 290.

    Yes, those are the measurements...

    I don't use a nipple driver for rims with double eyelets, but if you have single or no eyelets, then the chance of the bloody thing slipping inside the rim is pretty high and a nipple driver is the best solution
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    These are the ones

    JamesDT2.jpg
    JamesDT1.jpg
    left the forum March 2023
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    partybd wrote:
    400 is a big amount....looking for discount...
    wont cost 400 with novatec hubs. harry would be proud. nice set. more like £180 and far better than £180 wheelset.
    be around 1700 !800 grams.
  • gwillis
    gwillis Posts: 998
    The dt swiss 465 and novatecs are exactly what I've just build only with black aci spokes.
    Advice from forum and from ugo has helped loads.
    Just waiting for my new tyres and its off for their maiden voyage. If they roll as well ad they look I'm well happy that for under £.180 I've build some tidy wheels.
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,094
    I'm currently considering going to handbuilts from my Eurus because I find them hard work in cross winds. I'm weigh in at under 10st which may be a consideration but I did some maths the other day and calculated that the surface area of the spokes and rims is considerably more. The spokes on the front have 34% more surface area than my DA/Open Pro/Sapin Laser on my old bike and the back wheel of the Eurus has 50% more spoke surface area! The rims had around 20% more surface area. I'm going to get some new wheels for this reason alone. Coming down a descent on a gusty day is frankly quite frightening.

    I think spoke width should be a serious consideration if you live somewhere windy... Like I do. I chose the Eurus mainly for looks if I'm honest. This time I'm going to go for low surface area as a priority. But, is there a nice blingy looking set of handbuilts out there!? :oops:
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    i thought that initially, but now prefere the traditional look over deep section rims. you can bling them up with coloured spokes and theres nothing stopping you putting laser spokes on. if you find the hubs 28 front 36 rear will be stronger than 32/32 but thats pleanty for me at estimated 190 kg 13/14 stones.
  • DF33
    DF33 Posts: 732
    Built the wheels up, first (rear) took an hour and a half to lace as I took it slowly and double checked everything, the front then took under half an hour. they're not that far out as they stand.

    Started building the wheel jig, should have it done by the weekend and will tighten them and true them up then. And post a pick of course, otherwise it didn't happen!
    Peter
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    id like to see the jig, is your dad building it? :lol:
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    DF33 wrote:
    Built the wheels up, first (rear) took an hour and a half to lace as I took it slowly and double checked everything, the front then took under half an hour. they're not that far out as they stand.

    Started building the wheel jig, should have it done by the weekend and will tighten them and true them up then. And post a pick of course, otherwise it didn't happen!

    Remember to punch the spoke heads before starting truing the wheel
    left the forum March 2023
  • DF33
    DF33 Posts: 732
    Thanks, yes I'll punch the heads and de stress etc as going along. And I'll post a pic of the stand when made. Havea bit of steel off cuts laying about so shall use those and adapt them to make one.

    It's quite therapeutic building them up isn't it! :-)
    Peter
  • DF33
    DF33 Posts: 732
    Well, I gave up a ride on a beautiful day to make the wheel jig. So I'm going to take the morning off tomorrow and ride then :-)

    Anyway, it was made from offcuts. It's loosely based on Roger Mussons design. It isn't finished, needs grinding up, corners rounding and painting. But it's useable so I have just finished the first wheel. It's true to under half a mm in every plane and well de stressed, heads punched etc.

    Only had some flat bar left around. T section would have been easier.
    IMG_0506.jpg

    Couple of pieces of plate
    IMG_0507.jpg

    Cut some other bits, all rough at this stage.
    IMG_0508.jpg

    Put together
    IMG_0510.jpg

    IMG_0509.jpg

    Wheel in ready for truing up
    IMG_0513.jpg

    Thre hub label, tube hole and straight spokes all in the correct line up. I also ordered these hubs from Czeck rather than the UK ones (same price inc postage) as the hub label perfectly matches the colour of the rim labels. Vain vain vain, that's me!
    IMG_0515.jpg

    The guage arms are on a magnetic stand so it can be used to laterally true and moved to check the radius. I used it as a pointer rather than the guage. I had it in a drawer so might as well use it and save making other stuff instead.
    IMG_0514.jpg

    Haven't had time to make a wheel dish checker. So bit of lateral thinking required. as only 2 points of contact needed I used a couple of rain pipe sockets on the spare bedroom floor I'm decorating. Couple of plastic boxes underneath and used a pair of calipers to check the dish by simply flipping the wheel over without moving either the sockets or little boxes. Meant I could get on and finish the wheel this evening.
    IMG_0516.jpg

    IMG_0517.jpg

    Shall do the rear wheel tonight and hopefully ride them tomorrow. New pair of GP4000S to go on them :D
    Peter
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    turn the axle the other way in the stand to check the dish, no movement = centred. you dont need a dish gauge.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    DF 33, you certainly don't lack initiative... very nice...

    where did you source the branded Novatec hubs? Those i bought in the UK came unbranded... did you buy from taiwan?
    left the forum March 2023
  • DF33
    DF33 Posts: 732
    rake wrote:
    turn the axle the other way in the stand to check the dish, no movement = centred. you dont need a dish gauge.

    I was tired, see, so not thinking proper like. It's blindingly obvious isn't it! Thanks for that Rake.

    Ugo, I found them on ebay at the same time you posted up about the others. Just did a general search. He had 1 pair of 32 hole. The guy seems to source 1 offs and pairs of things, Bike tools we don't see much over here too etc.

    So what colour to paint the jig? think prob white to aid sighting the gap when trueing. I had to put a piece of A4 paper on the bottom of it as the dull grey steel made it hard to see.

    Both wheels are done. The only concern is if I have the tension correct on the rear wheel. The nds / ds are nicely tighter / slacker as should be. The ds are around the same tension as the front wheel spokes, maybe slightly less, the nds obviously naturally less. Think I'll have to go to some bike shops and get thrown out for a wheel squeezing fettish today! :shock: :D
    Peter
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    DF33 wrote:
    rake wrote:
    turn the axle the other way in the stand to check the dish, no movement = centred. you dont need a dish gauge.

    I was tired, see, so not thinking proper like. It's blindingly obvious isn't it! Thanks for that Rake.

    Ugo, I found them on ebay at the same time you posted up about the others. Just did a general search. He had 1 pair of 32 hole. The guy seems to source 1 offs and pairs of things, Bike tools we don't see much over here too etc.

    So what colour to paint the jig? think prob white to aid sighting the gap when trueing. I had to put a piece of A4 paper on the bottom of it as the dull grey steel made it hard to see.

    Both wheels are done. The only concern is if I have the tension correct on the rear wheel. The nds / ds are nicely tighter / slacker as should be. The ds are around the same tension as the front wheel spokes, maybe slightly less, the nds obviously naturally less. Think I'll have to go to some bike shops and get thrown out for a wheel squeezing fettish today! :shock: :D

    Red!

    Nice job... I use a tension gauge but i know people who don't... if you have a good feel and the wheels are for yourself, you can take the risk and eventually learn from your mistakes... the Park tool gauge is about 60 quid and it is basic... the Dt swiss one is a pretty thing, but it costs a fortune. If you find a 3 point gauge not specific for spokes and cheaper, go for it
    left the forum March 2023

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