£400 on some Handbuilt wheels?

ugo.santalucia

Strada Wheels wrote:

Err, our hubs are definitely not made by Novatec. We try to offer a hand built set of wheels custom tuned to suit your requirements at a price which is competitive to those offered by Mavic. Having just taken C+ Editors Choice award in a review against a pair of Elites I think we are doing ok in reaching our objective. And if you don't want the Ti QRs I am happy to take them off the build price. Running a small business is horifically expensive and we try very hard to keep our overheads as low as possible. But VAT, rent, rates, labour, packaging, shipping, warranty and general running costs mean it is expensive to run a business in 2012.

The A23 is a super comfy rim and matched with Ambrosio Zeniths at £299 or with Hopes (they are noisy) at £445 will make a great pair of durable comfortable road wheels for the original poster.

Thanks, Jonathan @ Strada

Just for personal interest, where do you source your hubs?

dr11

Give the Wheel Guru a call for advice - http://www.wheelguru.co.uk

spokegeezer

NapoleonD wrote:

spokegeezer wrote:

I had great service from http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/

Derek is excellent, I have a front IRD Cadence with 24 CX Rays and an Extralight hub he built, it's very light (about 500g) but so well built it copes with my ample frame wonderfully well

Derek is brilliant for sure. Did everything as he promised.
I had the IRD aero with Sapim CX rays 24/20 on the new Novatech superlite hubs. They are superb wheels.

KulaBen

Has anyone used the Hope Hoops Pro3 RS-SP 3.0? They're weighing in at about £350. I'm trying to decide between these, Ksyrium Elites and Shimano RS80s- all seem around the same money. Needs to be a wheel I can use all year round-planning to upgrade from RS10s

napoleond

KulaBen wrote:

Has anyone used the Hope Hoops Pro3 RS-SP 3.0? They're weighing in at about £350. I'm trying to decide between these, Ksyrium Elites and Shimano RS80s- all seem around the same money. Needs to be a wheel I can use all year round-planning to upgrade from RS10s

I have the Elites. Having used loads of different wheels from basic to top of the range I reckon they're the best all round wheel out there, taking into account cost.

bobgfish

Has anyone used the Hope Hoops Pro3 RS-SP 3.0? They're weighing in at about £350. I'm trying to decide between these, Ksyrium Elites and Shimano RS80s- all seem around the same money. Needs to be a wheel I can use all year round-planning to upgrade from RS10s

I have the Pro3 RS-Mono wheels. Hope hubs with open pro rim. They are lighter than the RS-SP 3.0 and have more spokes. They are a classic old school wheel. I'm riding mine all year round and they will last a while. I'm planning on doing Paris Roubaix on them and I'm sure they will be dead straight at the end. Soemtimes I think that too much emphisis is placed on low spoke counts and fast looking Rims when an old 32spoke 3 cross is almost as fast and will last twice as long.

hamex

I am thinking of buying a new carbon frameset road bike...the gurus at the LBS assembling it for me tell me that my nearly new dura ace/ mavic open pro ceramic wheelset will not be a good match...not "responsive" enough, compared with say some campag eurus....what do you think? I have no experience of factory wheels really, but like i say the handbuilts are nearly new and cost me £400.

ugo.santalucia

hamex wrote:

I am thinking of buying a new carbon frameset road bike...the gurus at the LBS assembling it for me tell me that my nearly new dura ace/ mavic open pro ceramic wheelset will not be a good match...not "responsive" enough, compared with say some campag eurus....what do you think? I have no experience of factory wheels really, but like i say the handbuilts are nearly new and cost me £400.

If you don't sprint for the line, it's not responsiveness you should worry about, but reliability and your wheels will survive a pothole far better than any campag eurus... if you want them more responsive, ask a builder to increase the tension in your spokes and they'll be more responsive... you have the choice, but personally I wouldn't bother, shorter rim life and less comfort for no real gain.
The Eurus might be responsive but they will die young... plus have you thought of the hassle of sourcing a replacement 21 holes rim when yours wears out or gets buckled in a pothole?

napoleond

I know what I'd go for out of the two!! 'responsive'? Nah. Get the open pro/da!

rake

open pro dura ace are cracking for any bike. theyl last well too. theyre just trying to sell you some more wheels.

tigerben

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bobpzero wrote:

http://www.stradawheels.co.uk/shop/velocity-a23-wheelset/

why buy a hand built that mocks some commercial wheels? Don't get the point... too expensive anyway, pay lots of money for silly titanium skewers

I think you are being a bit harsh with above statement - I had a pair built up with the A23 rims as I liked what I had read about the wider rim clinchers developed by HED. I opted for hand built rather than the original HED option as: a) cheaper b) easier to get hold off as at the time most people were showing out of stock on the HED and c) because I wanted to increase to spoke count to 32 to make them bomb proof.

Ended up with PMP hubs, Sapim race spokes in black and white A23 rims ... and No Ti Skewers.... I think total came out a little over OP's budget allowing for delivery etc.

I have no idea how they compare to the genuine HED Ardennes - but I can confirm that I am very pleased with them - I much prefer them to the Fulcrum 3's on my other bike.

napoleond

I should be getting some A23 rimmed wheels in the next month or so. I'll let you know how they compare to Elites/Open Pros/IRD etc if you can wait...

huuregeil

ugo.santalucia wrote:

if you want them more responsive, ask a builder to increase the tension in your spokes and they'll be more responsive...

With respect, this is rubbish! Spoke tension does not affect wheel stiffness (either laterally or radially) - higher tensions do increase load carrying capacity, at the expense of some extra stressing of the rim (so, yes, rim life does suffer if you push tensions too high).

However, regarding the Eurus, knowledge that this is 16/21 spoke build allows you to back off the rim weight from the total weight. Light front hubs are around the 70g mark, light rears 250g. Spokes, 5g each, say. This leaves the rim around the 500g mark, which is consistent with it being a stiff wheel at that weight.

"Responsiveness" is a combination of rotating mass and aerodynamic effects. The eurus is ok on aero but not so hot on rotating mass. If you're going uphill, where aero is downplayed, I'd bet the Open Pro would feel more lively. On the flat, the eurus probably pips it, due to aerodynamic factors.

DF33

By chance I bought a pair of the 32 hole DT Swiss rims from Planet X a couple of weeks ago, great value at £60 pair, and have been thinking which hubs to put on them.

I don't know a lot about the Novotec hubs but from what has been said they seem to be a good hub for a cheapish price.
I've been searching online for them but it's really difficult to find a 32 front and rear non MTB pair of hubs. Anyone have a link?

napoleond

DF33 wrote:

By chance I bought a pair of the 32 hole DT Swiss rims from Planet X a couple of weeks ago, great value at £60 pair, and have been thinking which hubs to put on them.

I don't know a lot about the Novotec hubs but from what has been said they seem to be a good hub for a cheapish price.
I've been searching online for them but it's really difficult to find a 32 front and rear non MTB pair of hubs. Anyone have a link?

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewit ... 0530665004

DF33

Cheers Nap.
Also just found this link http://www.ebay.com/itm/0210-Novatec-ro ... 2a19f7a513

I assume one is older stock and the other a newer line?

Anyone rate these hubs or would you bite the bullet and pay more (prob more than double) for something else?

napoleond

Try some hope 2s they are pretty reasonable.

ugo.santalucia

DF33 wrote:

By chance I bought a pair of the 32 hole DT Swiss rims from Planet X a couple of weeks ago, great value at £60 pair, and have been thinking which hubs to put on them.

I don't know a lot about the Novotec hubs but from what has been said they seem to be a good hub for a cheapish price.
I've been searching online for them but it's really difficult to find a 32 front and rear non MTB pair of hubs. Anyone have a link?

Sdeals have them for 51 pounds a pair + 3 pounds delivery. They are based in the UK, the phone number suggests Cirencester, the accent of the guy at the phone suggests deep Yorkshire...

Strada Wheels

"Just for personal interest, where do you source your hubs?"

We sourced them from a reputable manufacturer in Taiwan. We looked at several manufacturers and assessed the design, materials used and the placement and size of the flanges to make sure we got the best hub package we could find. We then tested them thoroughly to make sure they built well and were reliable in UK conditions. This time took time and money to do and I'd prefer not to disclose my suppliers on the internet.

Yes, you can buy the odd pair off Ebay and not get charged import duty or VAT. But when you buy in large quantities you will always be subject to freight, import duty at 4% and VAT at 20% and this needs to needs added to the cost of an item (whatever that item is you import) to make business worthwhile.

jomoj

DF33 wrote:

By chance I bought a pair of the 32 hole DT Swiss rims from Planet X a couple of weeks ago, great value at £60 pair, and have been thinking which hubs to put on them.

I don't know a lot about the Novotec hubs but from what has been said they seem to be a good hub for a cheapish price.
I've been searching online for them but it's really difficult to find a 32 front and rear non MTB pair of hubs. Anyone have a link?

I did the same but am going to build them onto my existing dura ace hubs. If you want the Novatec hubs then these are the same but rebranded:
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... 0s117p2005
You can get 105 hubs for < £50 and Ultegra for £90 from Ribble. Spa also do a good price on Sapim spokes.

DF33

Well I think it's time I had a go at building a set of wheels. As the cost of the parts so far has been low (compared to the quality of them) it has inspired me to have a go.

So I've ordered a set of Novatec hubs to go on the Swiss 465's. No point in using very expensive stuff on the first attempt. I use Spa (only live an hours ride away) so shall hopefully buy some Sapim race spokes from them (incidentally Colin at Spa built me some single speed wheels last year on Chrina hubs for about £120 all in, they haven't moved a millimetre in all that time, beautiful wheels for the money).

If I get it right then the wheels will have cost £136 for the Novatecs, DT swiss 465's and Sapim race spokes.

I'm an engineer and also used to technical stuff and good manually but I appreciate that wheel building is down to a lot of experience and feel as much as the technical stuff So any pointers to online info etc and hints / tips would be appreciated.

Or do you think I'm mad??

gwillis

Peter im building the same up next week once I source my spokes .

rake

make sure the spoke elbows are bent well to the flange, and periodically when its laced squeeze the spokes as hard as you reasonably can, the idea is to exceed the elastic limit to remove the latent stresses. this should reduce fatigue in the long run, it doesnt harm the wheel but seems a bit brutal while doing it. its maybe one advantage you have over machine built wheels. for the sake of 40g weight brass nipples are much better. as far as damage dont tension excessively, the spokes will stand up but the rim holes can crack prematurely although them dt have double eyelets which is good in the long run.i run these with 105 hubs, theyre an excelent balance of weight/strength quality is excellent and parts are a breeze to come by. i did cross 2 with 3 driverear.dt spoke calc gives accurate spoke length i found.

huuregeil

Apart from the common pages (Sheldon, wheelpro), this has a bunch of extremely helpful tips for a first-time builder:

http://miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.htm

I also second rake's comment, getting the spoke line set and stress relieving the spokes are two important steps that are easy to overlook.

Good luck, you should have a sweet pair of wheels that you can be proud of!

DF33

I've started a new thread with regard to spoke calcs I've done, any input greatly appreciated.

viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12840221

gwillis, I don't know if your experienced at wheel building or not but it may be of use to you.

I have read the link above re. wheel building and also the wheelpro download so thank you all for the pointers to them. I've also noted your tips etc.

I'll be buying spokes from Spa I think so will have to round the results to their stock unless 1.5mm plus out on length stock.

Cheers
Peter

hulla the hulla

I found this to be very informative - shows you most if not all of the relevant aspects of wheel building and maintenance

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

DF33

...

davelakers

I have had a pair of Open Pro/DA wheels and a set of CXP22/Hope 3 wheels, both built to a very high standard by Paul Hewitt.

I would still have the Open Pro/DA set if I still ran Shimano, they were fantastic wheels that felt like they would free wheel for ever.
I must admit I got rid of the CXP22/Hope wheels because the noise was doing my nut in!!
I bought a pair of Fulcrum Racing 3s from Plant X at a steal of £248 a couple of years back and they have been a superb set of wheels, but due to hard winter wear, and probably bad cleaning regime, the rims are quite worn.

Im about to bite the bullet and go for a set of Ksyrium Elites. Everything I have heard about them has been good.

KulaBen

My Ksyrium Elites arrived on Friday- long ride in the peaks yesterday and they were superb. Very light and responsive, and not overly harsh. Merlin are doing them for £375 delivered.

rake

http://bike198.com/review-dt-swiss-240s-hubs-on-rr465-rims-by-built-to-last-wheels/
these :idea: