Long Travel Full Sus

Ghostt

Hello!

I'm looking to invest in a long travel fully, but not sure how much travel to go for. I'm going to be riding mostly UK trail centres, including regular Wales trips, and hopefully Morzine in the summer. At the moment the 160mm 'all-rounder' bikes seem about right, as I'm looking at more the gravity end of the 'all-round' spectrum, or would 160mm be too much?

Budget will be £3500 max, although if I don't have to spend anywhere near that much I won't! Only condition is that I will be buying via my LBS on 0% finance (can't afford any other way) so direct sales (like Canyon, YT) are not really an option unless I go via the 0% credit card route. The LBS aren't really limited on the brands they can order in.

I've booked a demo of a Trek Slash 8 as a potential purchase, although it's right at the top of my budget. Has anyone got any experience of these? Not too many reviews around.

All suggestions greatly appreciated

cooldad

So what does your lbs sell?

RIKO

If your going to be doing uk trail centres mostly I would suggest not going higher than 160mm, it will be enough to deal with morzine. Not tried the slash but have tried the Remedy which seemed good the other alternative would be a specialized enduro also good to ride.

oodboo

Specialized Enduro, though I'm not so keen on the evo only line up so I'd be more tempted by the trek remedy. Maybe a Stumpjumper Evo or, dare I say it, Five AM.

Anonymous

Bias in me says Santa Cruz Blur LT at 140mm, or if you can pick one up with a discount, ex-demo or second hand, Nomad at 160mm.

Where are you based? Some demos going on at the moment.

delcol

never been to morzine but done many whistler trips over the years, a 160 bike is about perfect for whistlers rugged terrain, so i guess it would be simlar to morzine,
for general uk trail riding IMO anything over 160 is total overkill i took my demo 8 (180mm) out over here a few times to rivi and lee quarry and it was to much bike for the trails,, there was no feel at all for the trail it was like being on a magic carpet.. but riding my heckler there aint to bad,, at least you get some sort of feel for what going on under you..

for parkriding in my case whistler bike park the demo at 180mm was perfect.. i did ride the heckler in the park and have ridden the butcher in the park to but would'nt hit any of the gnarly trails like dirtmerchant or afternoon delights on the 160mm bike..

Ghostt

Cheers for the suggestions.

cooldad wrote:

So what does your lbs sell?

They're a Trek/Cannondale dealer but can order in other brands through their suppliers.

The Stumpjumper Evo Comp is looking like the best of the bunch so far, good reviews and spec. Trek Slash/Remedy do seem very expensive for the spec...Also the Mondraker Dune R/RR look good, not many reviews about though. Transition bottle rocket also caught my eye a bit.

The Enduro looks quite good too, but the new Evo comes with x-fusion forks and shock. I know they're supposed to be the new boys on the block but I'm not sure I want to buy a three grand bike to find out! Time to book some more test rides I think.

deadkenny wrote:

Bias in me says Santa Cruz Blur LT at 140mm, or if you can pick one up with a discount, ex-demo or second hand, Nomad at 160mm.

Where are you based? Some demos going on at the moment.

I'm based not too far from Swinley. I had a look at the Santa Cruz demo days, would have to be a Wales one. Probably a bit out of my budget tbh.

Ghostt

delcol wrote:

for general uk trail riding IMO anything over 160 is total overkill i took my demo 8 (180mm) out over here a few times to rivi and lee quarry and it was to much bike for the trails,, there was no feel at all for the trail it was like being on a magic carpet

Haha, reminds me of all the weekend warriors with full on DH rigs at Swinley...

Good to know about Whistler, I'd heard about the trail side of riding there but only ever seen videos of all the bikepark runs, like the feight train, where 180 is probably a minimum. Just have to buy a big bike when I move there!

Anonymous

Ghostt wrote:

I'm based not too far from Swinley. I had a look at the Santa Cruz demo days, would have to be a Wales one. Probably a bit out of my budget tbh.

Was going to say if you're round this way there's a demo weekend at Pedal and Spoke (Peaslake) which is a big UK SC dealer (if not the biggest in terms of range of stock) and ideally placed right in the Surrey Hills.

Sure it's not Wales but there's challenging stuff there if you know where to look. Some I'd say is more so than most of the Welsh trail centres. It's just not long rocky descents. Short steep and rooty. And some crazy big gap jumps if you like

Anyway, would be free as I understand it and nearby and can try out different bikes. Book via their web site. http://www.pedalandspoke.co.uk/

Got sold on a Nomad from there, even though it's not the Alps, but turns out it's so All Mountain it's at home anywhere and just as fun in the Surrey Hills as it is on the rocks in Wales or the DH at Aston. It's a certain for the Alps. Problem is the thing's got more balls than I have though!

delcol wrote:

for general uk trail riding IMO anything over 160 is total overkill

You hear this all the time as the travel sizes keep going up, yet they're fine and if you have tuneable suspension for the terrain you can make a 160+ feel more like a 140 or less. Another thing often said is the travel is wasted, you'd never use it all. Well I can easily and I don't have to be doing 50 foot drops. Again depending how it's tuned. The other thing is the long travel is a pain to climb. Well, no it isn't.

Thing is, these are *All Mountain* bikes. They're not DH bikes or Alpine only bikes, they're suited to go everywhere. I was wary at first getting the Nomad but chatting about it when buying and it was a beloved bike in the hills because it's just at home there as it would be doing the Mega (which suits me as that's where I want to take it). 170mm suspension!

(and yeah, I ride it at Swinley sometimes . Though finding the hard tail is fun there too).

delcol

Ghostt wrote:

delcol wrote:

for general uk trail riding IMO anything over 160 is total overkill i took my demo 8 (180mm) out over here a few times to rivi and lee quarry and it was to much bike for the trails,, there was no feel at all for the trail it was like being on a magic carpet

Haha, reminds me of all the weekend warriors with full on DH rigs at Swinley...

Good to know about Whistler, I'd heard about the trail side of riding there but only ever seen videos of all the bikepark runs, like the feight train, where 180 is probably a minimum. Just have to buy a big bike when I move there!

i been going for that last 4 years twice a year.. the bike park is awesome it really is, most of it is doable on a 160mm bike for the average rider.. if you a decent and confident rider you could probably ride all the trails on a 160mm bike..
first 2 trips i did used the heckler but felt way to out of my confort zone up in the garbo (garbanzo zone) hence why i got the demo, but i did get a really good deal on the demo got it at cost price.. the demo with it's slack geo and 180mm travel gave me the confidence boost i neded and i was riding thing i walked round the day before on the heckler.. the demo was good at what i got it for and that was park/downhill.. for trail it was to much it did'nt pedal to well and and absorbed to much of the trail...

the trail/xc riding around whistler is amazing the best trails i have ever ridden. it's a sin to go to whistler and not ride the xc stuff.. most of them if they were over here would be classed as downhill trails anyway.. they only get there xc badge in canada because you have to pedal to get up to them..

if you click my sig thing we have quite a few videos some bad some good of the xc stuff in whistler...

Ghostt

deadkenny wrote:

Was going to say if you're round this way there's a demo weekend at Pedal and Spoke (Peaslake) which is a big UK SC dealer (if not the biggest in terms of range of stock) and ideally placed right in the Surrey Hills.

Cheers for the info, can't do the demo weekend as it's this weekend and I'm fighting Sunday (Inter-university Muay Thai comp, slightly nervous about getting my head kicked in...)

Santa Cruz range looks good as well, a bit more monies but worth it with the right build spec. Will contact the Pedal & Spoke shop in due course to arrange a test ride, just need to decide on Butcher or Heckler. Oh the choices!

Stevo_666

Not that I'm biased of course ;-) but £3.5k will get you a Spicy 516 with a few hundred quid to spend on upgrades. Should do everything you want without problems.

styxd

Probably doesnt help much, but I'd buy two bike. Spend about £2500 and get a nice 100mm - 120mm bike for all the uk stuff and then spend £1000 on a 2nd hand long travel bike for the alps.

Thewaylander

deadkenny wrote:

Bias in me says Santa Cruz Blur LT at 140mm, or if you can pick one up with a discount, ex-demo or second hand, Nomad at 160mm.

Where are you based? Some demos going on at the moment.

Wow vastly different bike advice.. just because it's the same manufacturer?

The blur is more pedal orientated quick light and a bit flexy.
The Nomad is more aggressive heavier and stiffer

Completely different types of bikes.

Dirtrider

Hinestly I would go second hand, or maybe even consider building it yourself? With £3500 you should be able to build pretty much your perfect bike.

Anonymous

They are indeed different bikes but there are close similarities. The Blur LT is still an All Mountain long travel bike, same suspension system. Similar geometry, just not so slack and 140 fork as standard (can take 160 though). The Nomad is a beefier All Mountain with definite Downhill tendencies.

Though many have opinions that the Nomad is a stiff heavy beast, but I wonder if those saying it have tried them as I find it's nothing of the sort. It's lighter than my old GT and lighter or same as than many other AM bikes I come across (mine comes in at 30lbs). Stiff, haven't noticed, but stiffness seems to be a subjective thing and means different things to different people. It rides (and pedals ) beautifully that's all I know.

Anyway, just two options to try given the OP is after a long travel All Mountain kind of bike and not sure if 160 is right. Same manufacturer, similar bikes, different geometries though, but same suspension system, so easy to compare the travel and head angle differences. I went through the same as wasn't sure between the Blur LT and Nomad.

Both are excellent though, so I stand by SC

styxd

Both are excellent though

But totally over the top for riding round UK trail centres.

To the OP - be honest with yourself. If the majority of your riding is uk trail centres then buy a bike thats ideal for that i.e. a short travel full sus or a short travel hardtail.

Dirtrider

However, he did say he wanted to go to morzine over the summer.

Also, it depends how you ride trail centres and what trail centres you ride, for example you could make a point to use a 160mm full sus as Lee Quarry, but that would be pointless at the Marin trail.

Have you had a look at the Mondraker Foxxy/Prayer, seem very good for the price.

styxd

However, he did say he wanted to go to morzine over the summer.

Also, it depends how you ride trail centres and what trail centres you ride, for example you could make a point to use a 160mm full sus as Lee Quarry, but that would be pointless at the Marin trail.

It seems silly lugging an over the top bike around on all your regular rides, to only use it properly once per year.

Im not sure where you'd need 160mm of travel at any of the UK trail centres Ive ridden (not all of them). Even Lee Quarry. Far more fun/quicker on a nice light hardtail or full susser.

bails87

styxd wrote:

Im not sure where you'd need 160mm of travel at any of the UK trail centres Ive ridden (not all of them). Even Lee Quarry. Far more fun/quicker on a nice light hardtail or full susser.

It's not about 'need' though. If he's happy to ride it in the UK and it lets him go to the Alps and not be killed to death then why not?

And fun is subjective, plenty of people have fun in the UK on longer travel bikes.

Anonymous

styxd wrote:

But totally over the top for riding round UK trail centres.

Rubbish.

See this opinion so much and you can make what you like out of the bike and the trails. Ride around like a little old lady and sure a short travel hard tail will do you fine for all the UK trail centres. Hit them hard, fast and big and the big bikes will make you smile (does me). Of course you can still do it on a rigid if you like!

Depends on "trail centre". I don't so much ride true official trail centres but ride local trails which contain a lot of more agressive and technical features that can be found at trails centres. I also ride the likes of Aston Hill, Cwmcarn, etc. Yes, you don't need an AM bike for these either, but in no way would one be over the top, be it DH or trail venues in the UK.

And the point of an all rounder all mountain bike is you can take it anywhere and not need a separate bike for different places.

styxd

Hit them hard, fast and big and the big bikes will make you smile (does me).

You what?

Theres nothing to hit "big" on any of the trail centres I've ridden. Which is why a short travel bike makes more sense in my eyes. Which "big" trail features are you referring to?

A short travel bike is just generally more agile since you arent bogged down in 160mm of travel and a super slack head angle.

oodboo

styxd wrote:

A short travel bike is just generally more agile since you arent bogged down in 160mm of travel and a super slack head angle.

+1 - as much as I love my enduro I do think it's a bit much for the riding I do, my next bike will have less travel.

Ghostt

Cheers for all the replies, I've been having the exact same debate about travel in my head for a while now.

I agree a short travel bike is all you really need for the majority of UK stuff, which is why I ride a 120mm hardtail everywhere. However, I do feel at times I'm riding it on it's limit - it wasn't too happy with the big double drop off at Swinley (for those in the know ) As it's perfect 99% of the time though, can't see much point in a short travel full sus.

What I'm looking for, though, is a long travel bike to start taking on bigger stuff and more downhill orientated riding, including potential trips to the Alps and hopefully the Mega before too long. It's just deciding how much travel that's the problem...

bails87 wrote:

If he's happy to ride it in the UK and it lets him go to the Alps and not be killed to death then why not?

Sums it up quite nicely

Thewaylander wrote:

deadkenny wrote:

Bias in me says Santa Cruz Blur LT at 140mm, or if you can pick one up with a discount, ex-demo or second hand, Nomad at 160mm.

Where are you based? Some demos going on at the moment.

Wow vastly different bike advice.. just because it's the same manufacturer?

Completely different types of bikes.

Actually that's exactly the advice I want, that way I can go test ride both and make an informed choice, rather than go for the bestest shiniest longest travel bike!

Second hand or building from scratch does appeal but isn't an option as I can only afford to buy on 0% finance and pay monthly. It's only really because of this offer at my LBS that I can look into getting this bike!

Thewaylander

deadkenny wrote:

They are indeed different bikes but there are close similarities. The Blur LT is still an All Mountain long travel bike, same suspension system. Similar geometry, just not so slack and 140 fork as standard (can take 160 though). The Nomad is a beefier All Mountain with definite Downhill tendencies.

Though many have opinions that the Nomad is a stiff heavy beast, but I wonder if those saying it have tried them as I find it's nothing of the sort. It's lighter than my old GT and lighter or same as than many other AM bikes I come across (mine comes in at 30lbs). Stiff, haven't noticed, but stiffness seems to be a subjective thing and means different things to different people. It rides (and pedals ) beautifully that's all I know.

Anyway, just two options to try given the OP is after a long travel All Mountain kind of bike and not sure if 160 is right. Same manufacturer, similar bikes, different geometries though, but same suspension system, so easy to compare the travel and head angle differences. I went through the same as wasn't sure between the Blur LT and Nomad.

Both are excellent though, so I stand by SC

Compared to the compo though the nomad is a fairly lightwieght (pedal effiecent) AM design not hugely DH when i rode it compared to my Dune which is why i chose it, and the blur just feels like an extended XC bike,

These maybe the descriptions given by Santa cruz, but in relation to the rest of the market for bikes i'd say there defiantely the less aggressive side of the market. but saying that for blasting centers, and covering miles i really really liked the nomad just didn't decend as confidently as wanted for uplifting

supersonic

I've never understood this 'UK trails don't need long travel'. It's a big place, can't put all the trail eggs in one basket! You wouldn't say 'Alps needs long travel', depends where you go! The only thing the Alps and places in Europe have are longer downhills, not always harder or gnarlier.

Even small places like Wharncliffe have some horrific drops and boulders.

styxd

I've never understood this 'UK trails don't need long travel'. It's a big place, can't put all the trail eggs in one basket! You wouldn't say 'Alps needs long travel', depends where you go! The only thing the Alps and places in Europe have are longer downhills, not always harder or gnarlier.

You're right, theres lots of places in the UK where a long travel bike is needed. The trail centres arent those places though!

peter413

styxd wrote:

I've never understood this 'UK trails don't need long travel'. It's a big place, can't put all the trail eggs in one basket! You wouldn't say 'Alps needs long travel', depends where you go! The only thing the Alps and places in Europe have are longer downhills, not always harder or gnarlier.

You're right, theres lots of places in the UK where a long travel bike is needed. The trail centres arent those places though!

What nonsense! You get plenty of bigger stuff that warrants longer travel at trail centres, for example, Innerleithen with the downhill tracks and the secret stuff and that stuff easily warrants bigger travel bikes but you certainly don't need them. And a lot of trail centre type trails can be done on a smaller travel bike without a second thought yes, but hitting them on a bigger travel bike that pedals well is more fun for the right riders, myself for example I prefer my Marin Wolf Ridge to say my 456 for hooning around places, even the blue at Glentress. It's not just the travel that you have to take into account but also the geometry and sometimes you can only get the geometry that suits you with a longer travel bike.

cooldad

Depends how you ride really. My youngster has a 150mm travel bike, and uses every mm of it at times, even on sections of soft southern stuff like Swinley Forest or Surrey Hills. I ride the same stuff happily on a 100mm bike.

Quite a bit slower though.

styxd

What nonsense! You get plenty of bigger stuff that warrants longer travel at trail centres, for example, Innerleithen with the downhill tracks and the secret stuff and that stuff easily warrants bigger travel bikes but you certainly don't need them

Innerleithen, secret stuff, is that part of the "official" trail centre?

Yes theres secret stuff and downhill tracks all over the uk that warrant some suspension. But I cant think of anything on the proper Innlerleithen "Trail Centre" routes that warrant more than 100mm of travel.

peter413

styxd wrote:

What nonsense! You get plenty of bigger stuff that warrants longer travel at trail centres, for example, Innerleithen with the downhill tracks and the secret stuff and that stuff easily warrants bigger travel bikes but you certainly don't need them

Innerleithen, secret stuff, is that part of the "official" trail centre?

Technically it is since it's still part of the area, or thats the way I see it anyway.