JTL

frenchfighter

JTL actually asked to be put on the Bio Passport Program and take whatever test mid way through last year in an attempt to show he was clean.

You wouldnt really do that if you were guilty.

greasedscotsman

frenchfighter wrote:

JTL actually asked to be put on the Bio Passport Program and take whatever test mid way through last year in an attempt to show he was clean.

You wouldnt really do that if you were guilty.

Or you didn't think you would be caught.

ManOfKent

greasedscotsman wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

JTL actually asked to be put on the Bio Passport Program and take whatever test mid way through last year in an attempt to show he was clean.

You wouldnt really do that if you were guilty.

Or you didn't think you would be caught.

That would imply extreme arrogance on his part - is that consistent with other evidence as to his character?

greasedscotsman

ManOfKent wrote:

That would imply extreme arrogance on his part - is that consistent with other evidence as to his character?

I have no idea, I don't know him. As usual, alot of guesswork going on here. I'll just sit back and see what happens.

curium

frenchfighter wrote:

Id strongly recommend reading Brians comments (Cnews). Seems v legit to me and respect to him for supporting JTL. He said what I said - the silly training messed with him.

Do you not think that the physiologists who interpret the BP data are aware of any such effects that could be the cause of any discrepancy between his current and previous profile? In the absence of a positive test for a banned substance the difference in the data sets must be very significant for them to ask him to explain them.

frenchfighter

Maybe, or maybe it is all quantitative with no qualitative analysis thrown in, for now.

r0bh

curium wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Id strongly recommend reading Brians comments (Cnews). Seems v legit to me and respect to him for supporting JTL. He said what I said - the silly training messed with him.

Do you not think that the physiologists who interpret the BP data are aware of any such effects that could be the cause of any discrepancy between his current and previous profile? In the absence of a positive test for a banned substance the difference in the data sets must be very significant for them to ask him to explain them.

I _think_ all they would have seen at this stage is the BP data relatively anonymized, not knowing the rider or their race program or any illnesses that they have had. The stage we are currently at is where the rider can defend their BP by tying it up with events that might have influenced it like illness, altitude training etc.

cal_stewart

This was leaked, I wonder now common this is and how often it comes to nothing

negativelycra

greasedscotsman wrote:

Are you sure about this? Minardi haven't raced in F1 since 2005. They were bought out by Red Bull in 2006 and have raced as Toro Rosso since. Vettel's first F1 race was in 2007, for Toro Rosso, don't think it's going to be them complaining.

gpguide.com wrote:

Minardi raises Vettel 'traction control' doubts More Sharing ServicesShare|Share on facebookShare on myspaceShare on googleShare on twitter
Sep.29 (GMM) Former F1 team owner and boss Gian Carlo Minardi has raised doubts about the legitimacy of Sebastian Vettel's dominance in Singapore last weekend.

The 66-year-old, who sold his team before the 2001 season, was trackside at the Marina Bay circuit where Vettel commandingly won.

Minardi, whose Faenza based team was subsequently sold to Red Bull and became Toro Rosso, admits he has been troubled by Vettel's often multiple-second advantage over his rivals under the Singapore floodlights.

"It's not my intention to devalue Sebastian Vettel, who always manages his Red Bull in the best way," he told his website.

"I just want to tell what I personally saw and heard during the three day event," Minardi explained.

He said he is concerned that, while only just ahead of the likes of Lotus' Romain Grosjean and Mercedes' Nico Rosberg in the pre-race sessions, the reason for Vettel's subsequent dominance at key moments on Sunday is "not clear".

Referring to the stretch leading into the first chicane, Minardi said Vettel was able to negotiate it "without making any corrections, unlike all his rivals and also his teammate" Mark Webber.

"His laptime was also remarkable in T3, which is the track's sector with the highest concentration of corners," he added.

"On the same stretch, Sebastian was able to speed up 50 metres before any other driver, Webber included."

But the handling of the Red Bull was not the only thing troubling Minardi.

"The thing that surprised me the most was the engine's sound," he said.

"It sounded like none of the other Renault engines on track, including Mark's. It sounded similar to the engines in past seasons when traction control went into action.

"Furthermore, that sound was only heard when Vettel chalked up his excellent performances," added Minardi. "For example, after the safety car went in. In those moments it was more powerful (sounding) than any other engines -- Renault and the other brands.

"I would like to have some answers," he continued. "I don't want to blame anyone, I just want to get to the bottom of it."

As I said, my pinch of salt factor is off the map on this one!

EPO Delivery Man

Maybe JTL thought 'this is my chance to join Sky...i'll take some drugs so i can win the tour of Britain..that will cement it..and then i'll go legit and come off the sauce once im in'

No doubt he will say it was drugs for an injury or some such b*llocks.

You only have to look at his performances for Sky since he won the TOB. Utter sh*te.

Coming off EPO does that.

greasedscotsman

Oh right, Minardi as in the former owner, not the team... :oops:

r0bh

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Maybe JTL thought 'this is my chance to join Sky...i'll take some drugs so i can win the tour of Britain..that will cement it..and then i'll go legit and come off the sauce once im in'

No doubt he will say it was drugs for an injury or some such b*llocks.

You only have to look at his performances for Sky since he won the TOB. Utter sh*te.

Coming off EPO does that.

What about his wins early in the 2012 season then?

Richmond Racer

Cal_Stewart wrote:

This was leaked, I wonder now common this is and how often it comes to nothing

Now this I find interesting. From comments made yesterday its not unusual for a rider to be asked to explain out-of-kilter values, to the first panel of experts - the 3 person panel. But this is supposed to be a confidential process, respecting the privacy rights of the athlete. We usually get to hear about bio passport infringements if and when that panel dont accept the reason presented by the athlete and it then proceeds to a disciplinary hearing (eg Carlos Barredo, of which, mysteriously, there seems to have been no news for 11 months now).

So someone leaked it. Beyond the realms of possibility that it was a final present from Mcquaid to Cookson? And that the intent behind the leak was for the press to run with it BEFORE Sat, thereby possibly losing Cookson some votes?

Richmond Racer

r0bh wrote:

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Maybe JTL thought 'this is my chance to join Sky...i'll take some drugs so i can win the tour of Britain..that will cement it..and then i'll go legit and come off the sauce once im in'

No doubt he will say it was drugs for an injury or some such b*llocks.

You only have to look at his performances for Sky since he won the TOB. Utter sh*te.

Coming off EPO does that.

What about his wins early in the 2012 season then?

Also Sky had signed him up well before ToB, it was the worst kept secret in cycling. He had the signed contract in his back pocket. It was just the formal announcement that came after the race.

EPO Delivery Man

Richmond Racer wrote:

r0bh wrote:

EPO Delivery Man wrote:

Maybe JTL thought 'this is my chance to join Sky...i'll take some drugs so i can win the tour of Britain..that will cement it..and then i'll go legit and come off the sauce once im in'

No doubt he will say it was drugs for an injury or some such b*llocks.

You only have to look at his performances for Sky since he won the TOB. Utter sh*te.

Coming off EPO does that.

What about his wins early in the 2012 season then?

Also Sky had signed him up well before ToB, it was the worst kept secret in cycling. He had the signed contract in his back pocket. It was just the formal announcement that came after the race.

Wether it was signed before or after the race hes still been taking something.

What? because hes a Brit and has a nice face with a nice shaved head and has a posh name hes not allowed to be a drug taker?..jeez..

I love your 'Jane Austin' view of life love, but the world, and particularly human beings, dont operate like that. Anyone could be a cheat. Even you.

squired

Taking the innocent until proven guilty stance, I really feel sorry for the guy. He has had an absolutely terrible season and was probably already thinking ahead to his winter training, along with a good start to the 2014 season. Then this comes along and even worse it is made public. Whatever the result, I just hope for his sake that it is resolved quickly because these things often seem to drag on for way too long.

Off at a tangent slightly, but given what Brian Smith has said about Garmin also looking at JTL last year I wonder whether he regrets not signing with them. I can't help thinking that he would've probably fitted in far better there.

Richmond Racer

Dear EPO Delivery aka Judge Jeffries

How about waiting to see what comes of the review by the 3 person panel? and then the disciplinary hearing if it goes to that?

Christ, you'd be marvellous serving on a jury. Skip all that nonsensical stuff about pleas, evidence, cases to be made in defence. Utter waste of time when you seem just able to determine guilt from behind a keyboard. Think of the amount of money that could be saved by legal systems across the world.

salsiccia1

Richmond Racer wrote:

Dear EPO Delivery aka Judge Jeffries

How about waiting to see what comes of the review by the 3 person panel? and then the disciplinary hearing if it goes to that?

Christ, you'd be marvellous serving on a jury. Skip all that nonsensical stuff about pleas, evidence, cases to be made in defence. Utter waste of time when you seem just able to determine guilt from behind a keyboard. Think of the amount of money that could be saved by legal systems across the world.

Arf

EPO Delivery Man

Richmond Racer wrote:

Dear EPO Delivery aka Judge Jeffries

How about waiting to see what comes of the review by the 3 person panel? and then the disciplinary hearing if it goes to that?

Christ, you'd be marvellous serving on a jury. Skip all that nonsensical stuff about pleas, evidence, cases to be made in defence. Utter waste of time when you seem just able to determine guilt from behind a keyboard. Think of the amount of money that could be saved by legal systems across the world.

I tell you what, if JTL is completely innocent i will take you out to a Specialized Concept store and buy you any bike worth up to £8000.
If not, then you have to give me a lapdance (assuming youre a woman)

Its win-win for you either way.

negativelycra

Is EPO Delivery Man's statement that JTL is definately a cheater slander, or libel? I forget the rules..

EPO Delivery Man

Negativelycra wrote:

Is EPO Delivery Man's statement that JTL is definitely a cheater slander, or libel? I forget the rules..

Its neither. Its my opinion.

And i dont believe in the law.

I am the law.

You need to man up and stop being a sheep mate.

mroli

What constitutes "completely innocent" EPO DM? Just in case RR accepts - we should get the parameters of the bet organised - no action taken by the uci?

andyp

frenchfighter wrote:

JTL actually asked to be put on the Bio Passport Program and take whatever test mid way through last year in an attempt to show he was clean.

You wouldnt really do that if you were guilty.

That depends a lot on whether you know the outcome in advance or not. I could say I was happy to join the biopassport scheme at my own expense and would publish my results, but if no-one presses me on it would I continue to spend the money on it? From what Brian Smith said yesterday, they concluded pretty quickly that it was a non-starter, if JTL knew that, and one assumes he did, then he could make public statements til the cows come home, knowing that it wasn't going to happen.

dsoutar

Who needs balanced views when you have posters like this on the forum

displacedaussie

squired wrote:

Off at a tangent slightly, but given what Brian Smith has said about Garmin also looking at JTL last year I wonder whether he regrets not signing with them. I can't help thinking that he would've probably fitted in far better there.

I think if anything he probably regrets not signing/staying with NetApp-Endura. Their eventual race program ended up being great and he would have been the team leader in most of those races too.

cal_stewart

So with this is done in private most of the time and most case's come to nothing. JTL most love the internet at the minute

symo

Positive this is nothing. Will all be done in couple of weeks. He has been requested to explain himself. Sheesh this is normally a private hearing. Why has this been leaked?

ad_snow

squired wrote:

Taking the innocent until proven guilty stance, I really feel sorry for the guy. He has had an absolutely terrible season and was probably already thinking ahead to his winter training, along with a good start to the 2014 season. Then this comes along and even worse it is made public. Whatever the result, I just hope for his sake that it is resolved quickly because these things often seem to drag on for way too long.

This.
Horrible that he has to deal with this out in the public arena after what has been a torrid season of illness, injury, poor form and huge(ish) expectations. I hope that the chap is innocent but like squired said I hope it's resolved quickly either way.

Edit: I a word.

frenchfighter

To be honest the thought did cross my mind that Sky just wanted a way not to have to pay him next year.

dwanes

ad_snow wrote:

squired wrote:

Taking the innocent until proven guilty stance, I really feel sorry for the guy. He has had an absolutely terrible season and was probably already thinking ahead to his winter training, along with a good start to the 2014 season. Then this comes along and even worse it is made public. Whatever the result, I just hope for his sake that it is resolved quickly because these things often seem to drag on for way too long.

This.
Horrible that he has to deal with this out in the public arena after what has been a torrid season of illness, injury, poor form and huge(ish) expectations. I hope that the chap is innocent but like squired I hope it's resolved quickly either way.

The chap has had a torrid season because of his poor form during training, full stop (and, in turn, has suffered injury and illness because of the workload they put on him in training, expecting a chap like him to be able to cope).
Why hasn't he performed this year like previous years? Its not illness and injury. We will find out why.