Anti Racist Humour is Apparently Illegal

spen666

dhope wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Well there you go. You do not even know what publication you are talking about.

The MUFC match day magazine has nothing to do with this debate and is as relevant as the current issue of Cycling Plus magazine is to the subject

Christ, replace Official MUFC rag with generic MUFC rag if it changes anything.

Private Eye, not intended to incite.
MUFC bog roll, intended to incite.

Edit: Ah yes, RJS got there first :roll:

There is no evidence of any intention to incite anyone!

You are letting your prejudice blind you from the bigger issue.

I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is & say no one will be convicted of any offence here & GMP will end up having to settle a civil claim against them as they acted in excess of their powers!

Anyone prepared to take me up on these two bets?

rjsterry

spen666 wrote:

dhope wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Well there you go. You do not even know what publication you are talking about.

The MUFC match day magazine has nothing to do with this debate and is as relevant as the current issue of Cycling Plus magazine is to the subject

Christ, replace Official MUFC rag with generic MUFC rag if it changes anything.

Private Eye, not intended to incite.
MUFC bog roll, intended to incite.

Edit: Ah yes, RJS got there first :roll:

There is no evidence of any intention to incite anyone!

You are letting your prejudice blind you from the bigger issue.

I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is & say no one will be convicted of any offence here & GMP will end up having to settle a civil claim against them as they acted in excess of their powers!

Anyone prepared to take me up on these two bets?

You are probably right. But as examples of the police acting in excess of their powers go, I'm not going to lose sleep over it, precisely because of what you suggest.

notsoblue

spen666 wrote:

dhope wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Well there you go. You do not even know what publication you are talking about.

The MUFC match day magazine has nothing to do with this debate and is as relevant as the current issue of Cycling Plus magazine is to the subject

Christ, replace Official MUFC rag with generic MUFC rag if it changes anything.

Private Eye, not intended to incite.
MUFC bog roll, intended to incite.

Edit: Ah yes, RJS got there first :roll:

There is no evidence of any intention to incite anyone!

You are letting your prejudice blind you from the bigger issue.

I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is & say no one will be convicted of any offence here & GMP will end up having to settle a civil claim against them as they acted in excess of their powers!

Anyone prepared to take me up on these two bets?

I think a civil claim is worth not seeing a load of football fans wearing KKK masks...

DonDaddyD

Personally, and I don't know about others, but while it is probably a restriction of freedom of speech/right to expression, I really wouldn't want to be sitting in a football stadium or watching the TV with potentiall hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands wearing a KKK mask. Even in jest.

Much like standing in the pub around people shouting you black baboon c*nt or anti-German/French/Spanish/Argentina/ect songs when England plays "the old enemy".

Yes, Spen you're right, you know you are. It's an encroachment of an individuals right to free expression and freedom of speech. And we get it, you will defend this right even if you do not agree with their view. And, it seems, you will do this even at the expense of common, social and human decency.

Michael Donald - 1981 - NSFW

How funny is that?

When I think of the KKK I think of that ir acts just like it. I think of hatred and fear. Do you ever look at KKK imagery and think that it could be you, or a father, mother, child, sibling etc? While you pontificate on how right you are and how willing you are to defend civil liberties at the expense of anything else do take the time to consider how actions affect others.

The connotations of the image (the cut out mask) does matter and in this instance I, personally, would say that given the replusive existence of the KKK the offensive nature of the KKK mask outwieghs the POINT or message aimed at Suarez.

I would also assert that very little would be achieved from making fun at a person found and punnished for making racist comments by greeting him with an even worse racist image.

But all in all Spen, yeah you're right. Decency be damned.

spen666

Apparently

Britain has dropped 9 places to 28th behind ex Soviet bloc countries Poland, Estonia & Slovakia in the international Freedom of Speech league table

notsoblue

spen666 wrote:

Apparently

Britain has dropped 9 places to 28th behind ex Soviet bloc countries Poland, Estonia & Slovakia in the international Freedom of Speech league table

lol

Amazed you're still pushing the freedom of speech angle on this story.

rick_chasey

notsoblue wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Apparently

Britain has dropped 9 places to 28th behind ex Soviet bloc countries Poland, Estonia & Slovakia in the international Freedom of Speech league table

lol

Amazed you're still pushing the freedom of speech angle on this story.

Whenever I read 'lol' I see a chap with both his arms up.

spen666

notsoblue wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Apparently

Britain has dropped 9 places to 28th behind ex Soviet bloc countries Poland, Estonia & Slovakia in the international Freedom of Speech league table

lol

Amazed you're still pushing the freedom of speech angle on this story.

The issue is one of freedom of expression - hence why I am "pushing" it.

I don't agree with Red Issue, but I will defend their right to express their humour

bompington

spen666 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Apparently

Britain has dropped 9 places to 28th behind ex Soviet bloc countries Poland, Estonia & Slovakia in the international Freedom of Speech league table

lol

Amazed you're still pushing the freedom of speech angle on this story.

The issue is one of freedom of expression - hence why I am "pushing" it.

I don't agree with Red Issue, but I will defend their right to express their humour

And yet you have already acknowledged the old chestnut of not having the freedom to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre - can you really not see the similarity? Have you ever been to a football match?

DonDaddyD

Edit.

I don't want to get involved beyond what I've already said, which I think is absolutely spot on.

Mr Sworld

bompington wrote:

spen666 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Apparently

Britain has dropped 9 places to 28th behind ex Soviet bloc countries Poland, Estonia & Slovakia in the international Freedom of Speech league table

lol

Amazed you're still pushing the freedom of speech angle on this story.

The issue is one of freedom of expression - hence why I am "pushing" it.

I don't agree with Red Issue, but I will defend their right to express their humour

And yet you have already acknowledged the old chestnut of not having the freedom to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre - can you really not see the similarity? Have you ever been to a football match?

This...

notsoblue

spen666 wrote:

I don't agree with Red Issue, but I will defend their right to express their humour

This was a bad joke that was so poorly executed that due to mind-blowing ignorance they accidentally ran the risk of both causing deep offence and breaking laws against inciting racial hatred.

This isn't Rodin's The Kiss, you need to choose the issues you choose to defend a bit better.

If I'm really honest, I don't really care about football related issues in the slightest. If they had published their KKK masks unhindered and there were 10,000 football fans wearing them "for a laugh" at a game, invoking in some the sentiments shared by the KKK, resulting in violence, or insult, or neither... then I would have just thought its "sh1t that football fans do" and moved on.

The reason why I'm posting in this thread is because you seem to be ignoring the fact that they're encouraging the wearing of "funny" KKK masks at a football match for a laugh. Its probably not a criminal matter, and the police will likely be penalised for getting involved, but it was a immensely idiotic stunt. As usual, the police are wasting money and resources trying to protect the football community from itself. And people are going on about this being an issue of free speech?

lol.

veronese68

Would a person be allowed to go to a fancy dress party dressed as a klansman? Travelling on public transport.

dhope

Veronese68 wrote:

Would a person be allowed to go to a fancy dress party dressed as a klansman? Travelling on public transport.

Probably would get some stick

notsoblue

Veronese68 wrote:

Would a person be allowed to go to a fancy dress party dressed as a klansman? Travelling on public transport.

Yeah.

But eyebrows would be raised if a group of people were giving away free Klansmen costumes to make an anti-racist joke.

clarkey cat

I don't see why not... if an heir to the realm can go to a fancy dress party as a Nazi.

hmmm, he didnt take public transport though...

dhope

clarkey cat wrote:

I don't see why not... if an heir to the realm can go to a fancy dress party as a Nazi.

hmmm, he didnt take public transport though...

Well, the public paid for his transport

veronese68

I'd expect the police to take a pretty dim view of it and make him remove the hood and minimise external signs, burning cross, etc. Removing cut out and keep KKK masks would be much the same.

spen666

notsoblue wrote:

spen666 wrote:

I don't agree with Red Issue, but I will defend their right to express their humour

This was a bad joke that was so poorly executed that due to mind-blowing ignorance they accidentally ran the risk of both causing deep offence and breaking laws against inciting racial hatred.

This isn't Rodin's The Kiss, you need to choose the issues you choose to defend a bit better.

If I'm really honest, I don't really care about football related issues in the slightest. If they had published their KKK masks unhindered and there were 10,000 football fans wearing them "for a laugh" at a game, invoking in some the sentiments shared by the KKK, resulting in violence, or insult, or neither... then I would have just thought its "sh1t that football fans do" and moved on.

The reason why I'm posting in this thread is because you seem to be ignoring the fact that they're encouraging the wearing of "funny" KKK masks at a football match for a laugh. Its probably not a criminal matter, and the police will likely be penalised for getting involved, but it was a immensely idiotic stunt. As usual, the police are wasting money and resources trying to protect the football community from itself. And people are going on about this being an issue of free speech?

lol.

If you think a publication attacking racism is inciting race hatred, then you have clearly not understood anything about this topic.

Red Issue were exposing the racism of Suarez! Not supporting it

notsoblue

spen666 wrote:

If you think a publication attacking racism is inciting race hatred, then you have clearly not understood anything about this topic.

Read my post again.

bompington

Veronese68 wrote:

I'd expect the police to take a pretty dim view of it and make him remove the hood and minimise external signs, burning cross, etc. Removing cut out and keep KKK masks would be much the same.

Highly entertained at the image of someone getting on a bus carrying a burning cross. Doubtless Spen will be along soon to campaign for their right to do so.

rjsterry

"Sorry, mate. You're going to 'ave to put that out - 'elf 'n' safety innit."

notsoblue

rjsterry wrote:

"Sorry, mate. You're going to 'ave to put that out - 'elf 'n' safety innit."

"Its pollidikulcurrectnuss goan maaaahhhhhhd"

DrLex

My boss as just shown me the "proscribed" publication; that mask, if cut out, would fit a hamster or perhaps a smallish guinea pig.
If Harry Redknapp can be found not guilty of tax evasion, predicting jury decisions is more about prevailing public opinion than law- what odds are you offering, Spen?

spen666

DrLex wrote:

My boss as just shown me the "proscribed" publication; that mask, if cut out, would fit a hamster or perhaps a smallish guinea pig.
If Harry Redknapp can be found not guilty of tax evasion, predicting jury decisions is more about prevailing public opinion than law- what odds are you offering, Spen?

wondered how long it would be before someone had actually really seen said item!

So, now as you have pointed out the item was not capable of being worn by anyone at said game, wonder what those supporting the censorship are going to base their arguments on now. Clearly it can't be the sight of peopkle wearing these masks

Richard_D

spen666 wrote:

Red Issue were exposing the racism of Suarez! Not supporting it

From what I recall he was not exposed as being racist but repeatedly using a word that is considered racist in this country. It is not considered racist where he was born and brought up in fact a team mate in his national side has the word as his nickname. And this is why the FA are instituting a training program for players coming from abroad to prevent a reoccurrence.
I have never met the guy so I do not know if he used the word because of racist views or ignorance. Footballers do not have the greatest reputation for intelligence
As for the hand shake from reports Evra is not clean in this either as according to several reports he did not put his hand to be shaken and then made a fuss when Suarez did not. There is also no apology seen from Rio Ferdinand who then refused to shake Suarez hand.

They are all acting like petulant little children. I would be sorely tempetd to lock Suarez and Evra in a room without food were the only way out is if they work together.

spen666

Richard_D wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Red Issue were exposing the racism of Suarez! Not supporting it

From what I recall he was not exposed as being racist but repeatedly using a word that is considered racist in this country. It is not considered racist where he was born and brought up in fact a team mate in his national side has the word as his nickname. And this is why the FA are instituting a training program for players coming from abroad to prevent a reoccurrence.
I have never met the guy so I do not know if he used the word because of racist views or ignorance. Footballers do not have the greatest reputation for intelligence
As for the hand shake from reports Evra is not clean in this either as according to several reports he did not put his hand to be shaken and then made a fuss when Suarez did not. There is also no apology seen from Rio Ferdinand who then refused to shake Suarez hand.

They are all acting like petulant little children. I would be sorely tempetd to lock Suarez and Evra in a room without food were the only way out is if they work together.

you are Kenny Dalglish and I claim my £5


(alternatively, you are Saddam Hussein's Minister of Information Comical Ali)

godders1

Yeah, with their outstanding reputations for competence and morality you'd have to be deluded not to accept what the FA and the press are telling you!

http://newsframes.wordpress.com/2012/01 ... hurnalism/

ddraver

Godders1 wrote:

Yeah, with their outstanding reputations for competence and morality you'd have to be deluded not to accept what the FA and the press are telling you!

http://newsframes.wordpress.com/2012/01 ... hurnalism/

Nice article! An interesting comment on our national press...

godders1

ddraver wrote:

Godders1 wrote:

Yeah, with their outstanding reputations for competence and morality you'd have to be deluded not to accept what the FA and the press are telling you!

http://newsframes.wordpress.com/2012/01 ... hurnalism/

Nice article! An interesting comment on our national press...

Yeah it's a good blog in general, the stuff on "framing" is interesting.