Brakes - Are disc brakes better? and why?

napoleond

Seems like one more 'traditional' company thinks it is the future...

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/arti ... isc-33359/

rake

it says to me that they think they can sell some and make more money. i couldnt care weather it was past or future.

napoleond

Can't see the issue with having better braking.

ddraver

Well Colnago (of all people) have started



Have to confess I'm not a fan of theirs but I doff my cap to them on this. Interestingly we have a new brand involved in the road disk market (Formula - make great brakes if you ask me ) and also some integration with electronic shifting.

The future looks bright, the future looks disk shaped.

rake

only one springs to mind, the fool who spots his mate at the last minute at the side of the road and stops for a chat at a bottleneck with riders several wide behind going a fair pace. brakes as hard as possible and doesnt even pull over.

napoleond

That's not an issue with disc brakes. That's an issue with someone riding in a group with no experience/etiquette.

ddraver

rake wrote:

only one springs to mind, the fool who spots his mate at the last minute at the side of the road and stops for a chat at a bottleneck with riders several wide behind going a fair pace. brakes as hard as possible and doesnt even pull over.

Oh ho seriously? Come on, If we must start this again, at least put something vaguely realistic!

(Sorry Nap, I did nt see the link you'd posted)

citrus_

Rake is also still using down tube shifters, because they are "adequate" for him :P

joshr96

I have never had disc brakes before, but considering the physics behind it, they're probably better for stopping quicker. This is just because they have alot more surface area than the traditional V brakes.

Hope this helped 8)

andrewjoseph

citrus wrote:

Rake is also still using down tube shifters, because they are "adequate" for him :P

I just took my downtube shifters off my bike. They were adequate for two years and I liked the retro feel. But they were starting to inhibit my riding.

rake

ddraver wrote:

rake wrote:

only one springs to mind, the fool who spots his mate at the last minute at the side of the road and stops for a chat at a bottleneck with riders several wide behind going a fair pace. brakes as hard as possible and doesnt even pull over.

Oh ho seriously? Come on, If we must start this again, at least put something vaguely realistic!

(Sorry Nap, I did nt see the link you'd posted)

this is true. i was right behind him, just after a blind bend so no warning. i skided between them and banged shoulders either side.

ddraver

Well, hang on, I thought they provided no extra stopping power? So presumably the same thing would have occurred with calipers no rake?

(in fact, regardless of stopping power, the same thing would have happened - hence its irrelevance)

springtide9

@rake - I really hard to comment on this.... struggling to keep a straight face... sounds like you need disc brakes lol... stop it... I'm cracking up...
Amazingly, my car's brakes are much better than HGV's, but to date I have get to have one hit me from behind... I guess I've just been lucky??
It may surprise you... but MTBs haven't always had disc brakes... and not all disc brakes are created equal... and MTBers also ride in groups, along narrow tracks and at high speed, with poor stopping conditions.. and we have managed for years not to crash into the back of each other. I assume real roadies are just as intelligent as their MTB cousins, so we shouldn't expect many 'roadie' deaths due to disc brakes.


Great news about Formula entering the road disc brake market. I have the RX's and they are amazing. Superlight and could stop an Oil Tanker.

I guess it makes much more sense companies like Colnago teaming up with the leading MTB disc brake manufacturers like Formula as they have the experience. SRAM have Avid's experience and Shimano have (unfortunately) got Shimano.

Liking the look of that Colnago... the whole design looks very clean.. looks lovely of you ask me. I'd better start saving!

andrewjoseph

rake wrote:

only one springs to mind, the fool who spots his mate at the last minute at the side of the road and stops for a chat at a bottleneck with riders several wide behind going a fair pace. brakes as hard as possible and doesnt even pull over.

this is true. i was right behind him, just after a blind bend so no warning. i skided between them and banged shoulders either side.

I'm confused, who had the disks brakes here and who didn't? the guy who stops for a chat or the guy who skids between them?

both of them, neither?

rake

neither of us but it could have been nasty if he'd managed to stop quicker although i dont know how he could of.

napoleond

As I said, crap group riding skills/etiquette rather than braking issues. Maybe if you'd've had discs you'd've stopped before the incident

rake

i think id have been off or over the top with any more brake.

springtide9

rake wrote:

i think id have been off or over the top with any more brake.

The only way you'll go over the bars is if your body weight is in the wrong position when braking hard.

NapD is just suggesting that Disc brakes would offer reduced stopping distance, but it's obviously up to the rider to have the skill to make use of them; but Disc brakes are much easier to control.

FYI
On the MTB, I can position my body to get the back wheel raised when riding at speed and braking hard, but can control the braking force to balance this position (i.e. balancing on the front wheel)... I'd never in a million years be able to do that with callipers or V brakes.... and it's not because I'm that skilled a rider, just the brakes make it much, much easier.

napoleond

rake wrote:

i think id have been off or over the top with any more brake.

Then need to practice body positioning on the bike more.

andrewjoseph

rake wrote:

neither of us but it could have been nasty if he'd managed to stop quicker although i dont know how he could have.

I fail to see what this incident shows about the merits of disk brakes.

what if one or both riders had new or worn brake pads, or new tyres, or there was an oily patch, or gravel or.......

Poor example rake, does nothing to add to the discussion at hand.

rake

NapoleonD wrote:

rake wrote:

i think id have been off or over the top with any more brake.

Then need to practice body positioning on the bike more.

i had to change line whilst breaking i know there wasnt time to stop.

rake

andrewjoseph wrote:

rake wrote:

neither of us but it could have been nasty if he'd managed to stop quicker although i dont know how he could have.

I fail to see what this incident shows about the merits of disk brakes.

what if one or both riders had new or worn brake pads, or new tyres, or there was an oily patch, or gravel or.......

Poor example rake, does nothing to add to the discussion at hand.[/quote]
some statistics on abs brakes for example dont show much difference to accident levels.
two problems 1. you can stop faster but so can the car in front but thinking time remains the same.
2. people just drive faster and dont think as far ahead cos they can stop faster.
i saw as many cars in the ditch this winter as i did 20 years ago. the brakes in my car are modulated by the drivers foot but i havent crashed into any numbskulls that brake like friction material is going out of fashion, im aware of this and drive accordingly. so yes i think car abs is an unnecessary expense as do discs on road racers.

Trickyh

So you think I should just take the twin pot twin radial Brembo's off my Ducati cos they're not needed! Thanks Rake, YOU ARE a GENIUS!!

Trix

(now where's my multi-spanner??)

rake

Trickyh wrote:

So you think I should just take the twin pot twin radial Brembo's off my Ducati cos they're not needed! Thanks Rake, YOU ARE a GENIUS!!

Trix

(now where's my multi-spanner??)

no its a powered motorbike, it goes much faster and is much heavier to stop. rim brakes wouldnt be viable, neither would the weight saying make any difference. you're equally a genius for comparing it to a pedal cycle :!: you should probably slow down too
you could try taking one of the front discs off and see how you get on

andrewjoseph

rake wrote:

...
some statistics on abs brakes for example dont show much difference to accident levels.
two problems 1. you can stop faster but so can the car in front but thinking time remains the same.
2. people just drive faster and dont think as far ahead cos they can stop faster.
i saw as many cars in the ditch this winter as i did 20 years ago. the brakes in my car are modulated by the drivers foot but i havent crashed into any numbskulls that brake like friction material is going out of fashion, im aware of this and drive accordingly. so yes i think car abs is an unnecessary expense as do discs on road racers.

You think abs is used just to stop quicker? it's designed to help stop a vehicle from skidding, not reducing stopping distance per se. it may reduce braking distance in ideal conditions, but it is made for better braking and safety in poor conditions.

Again you seem to use poor analogies. And you don't want better braking in your car either!

Try comparing like with like, and not using 'if they had disks it would be worse', as an argument.

rake

andrewjoseph wrote:

rake wrote:

...
some statistics on abs brakes for example dont show much difference to accident levels.
two problems 1. you can stop faster but so can the car in front but thinking time remains the same.
2. people just drive faster and dont think as far ahead cos they can stop faster.
i saw as many cars in the ditch this winter as i did 20 years ago. the brakes in my car are modulated by the drivers foot but i havent crashed into any numbskulls that brake like friction material is going out of fashion, im aware of this and drive accordingly. so yes i think car abs is an unnecessary expense as do discs on road racers.

You think abs is used just to stop quicker? it's designed to help stop a vehicle from skidding, not reducing stopping distance per se. it may reduce braking distance in ideal conditions, but it is made for better braking and safety in poor conditions.

Again you seem to use poor analogies. And you don't want better braking in your car either!

Try comparing like with like, and not using 'if they had disks it would be worse', as an argument.

i have already done so, read back in the thread
as one poster shot himself in the foot, hgv's dont have the brake performance but he hasnt been run down with one. no, idont need better barking in my car, they're adequate, and passengers like to relax.

andrewjoseph

rake wrote:

...
i have already done so, read back in the thread

I have read the whole thread, the last incident you were talking about involved at least 3 riders and none of them had disk brakes, yet you can say that if any one or all of them had disk brakes, the incident would have had a disastrous outcome. I fail to understand how you can come to that conclusion. It is a poor example of the argument for or against disks when you have no data to use for that incident.

Even if one or all had disk brakes, I'm pretty sure rider skill, road surface and tyre choice would have had more 'impact'. (pun intended).

if you are going to slate all disk brakes, use some real world data or your own experience.

I can speak from experience, I have used rim brakes on mtb's, disks on mtb's, rim brakes on road bikes and now disk brakes on road bikes. I will use disks over rim brakes given a choice. I am not an expert on brakes, but I know what works for me.

What experience do you have with disk brakes? And reading other peoples views on disks is NOT personal experience.

rake

andrewjoseph wrote:

rake wrote:

...
i have already done so, read back in the thread

Even if one or all had disk brakes, I'm pretty sure rider skill, road surface and tyre choice would have had more 'impact'. (pun intended)

.--exactly, so why bother with disc doh.

[/quote]if you are going to slate all disk brakes[/quote]---im am not, theyre very good on mtb---- [/quote]use some real world data[/quote]---likewise.

.[/quote] I will use disks over rim brakes given a choice[/quote]---good, it suits you then---. [/quote]I am not an expert on brakes, but I know what works for me[/quote]----allbeit if you're slightly slower overall.

andrewjoseph

rake, you just don't get it do you.

As I've said few times, I'm not worried about weight or aerodynamics, I like reliability. Weight will soon not be an issue on pro racing bikes.

"--exactly, so why bother with disc doh."

You brought the issue of disks into a situation you experienced when no-one was using them.

if you want to talk about the pro's and con's of disk brakes, bring some experience and rationality to the discussion. You're twisting yourself into pretzels here.

rake

andrewjoseph wrote:

rake, you just don't get it do you.

---

no, i dont

As I've said few times, I'm not worried about weight or aerodynamics----i am though, i dont ride to commute (why not ride mtb or a tourer then, all the reliability you need), I like reliability. ---so do i, ive never broken a pair of dual pivots Weight will soon not be an issue on pro racing bikes--i know, they wont use discs.

"--exactly, so why bother with disc doh."

You brought the issue of disks into a situation you experienced when no-one was using them.

if you want to talk about the pro's and con's of disk brakes, bring some experience and rationality to the discussion.theres is about 5 pages worth but you've decided to take no notice