Brakes - Are disc brakes better? and why?

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Comments

  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    ddraver wrote:
    ...

    Andrew - see here, http://www.hopegb.com/voir_whspxc3.html

    Thanks, I took a look yesterday, was a bit disappointed as they are mtb wheels. I was hoping to get a lighter pair for our roads bikes, to be able to swap out the 36 spoke touring wheels I built.

    I still like the look of the CrankBros Cobalt 29" wheels, but some reviews have been poor.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    rake wrote:
    of course they wont fit a road frame as the rear axle is 135mm.

    That's OK, my touring frame is 135mm :twisted:
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    Yes, I was mentioning it as a possibility not something immediately available for use. One could design a road hub, optimised for 9mm QR as opposed to the myriad of MTB options. As choice of disk size is likely to be much less of an issue for road bikes, there would be less problems with compatibility and such if you integrated the disk and hub.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    the size will be more issue as road has more grip and higher speed. no you cant simply make it 130mm, the dish is bad enough allready. :|
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    You've been drinking again, haven't you Rake !!
    :lol:
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    ...so tell me rake, what insurmountable engineering problem occurs making a road frame with 135mm dropouts when you ve already got to make one with disk mounts?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    Q factor increase. they could have run less wheel dish by going 135mm for a better wheel but they didnt.
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    You're right, how silly of us. An extra 2.5mm of Q Factor per side. Totally unsurmountable. I'll give Shimano, et al a call and suggest that they cancel their development.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    good idea.
  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    rake, there are loads of 29er wheels out there with no braking surface at the rim, some of them are pretty light but they stand up to mtb abuse. Admittedly they are 135mm rear axle, most have dish, apart from those that have offset spoke beds but ALL have 110mm front axle, same as road wheels.

    Q factor is not a problem, heel strike may be more of an issue, but it's not beyond the wit of an intelligent designer to eliminate.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    andrewjoseph wrote:
    rake, there are loads of 29er wheels out there with no braking surface at the rim, some of them are pretty light but they stand up to mtb abuse. Admittedly they are 135mm rear axle, most have dish, apart from those that have offset spoke beds but ALL have 110mm front axle, same as road wheels.

    Q factor is not a problem, heel strike may be more of an issue, but it's not beyond the wit of an intelligent designer to eliminate.
    front isnt 110, it 100mm :wink: on road.
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    MattC59 wrote:
    You're right, how silly of us. An extra 2.5mm of Q Factor per side. Totally unsurmountable. I'll give Shimano, et al a call and suggest that they cancel their development.

    SRAM have a product coming to market very soon; they also make wheels. Considering SRAM are one of the three top road component companies involved in road racing, we can assume that SRAM would have actually tested their product (and it has gone through development cycles) before announcing to the world a new technology to the road scene.

    I think we can assume that it is technically possible to bring disc brakes to road bikes. It's like arguing that it's technically impossible to have 11 gears on the rear.
    Simon
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    no ones saying its not technically possible. its just not as efficient for performance. they will have a place if you can stoach the cost but they wont be going on my summer bile.
  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    rake wrote:
    no ones saying its not technically possible. its just not as efficient for performance. they will have a place if you can stoach the cost but they wont be going on my summer bile.

    :shock: :shock:

    So SRAM are putting heavier, more expensive and LESS efficient brakes on bikes?? Wow, have they sacked the RD peeps and promoted the PR/Sales peeps?

    Have you actually understood anything that has been said?
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    i ment regarding riding speed not stopping ability which calipers do adequately for me. theyl build whatever they think will make money.it will be quite a money spinner.
  • Fat-Boy-Roubaix
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix Posts: 413
    edited February 2012
    Having lusted after a Volagi, a full carbon with BB7. I have been seriously considering having a bike designed for fast road use that can take mudguards with quick release mounts. I have gone as far as researching where the frames come from, not only Volagi but the other main brands.

    Seems to me that more and more people want a fast light road bike with decent guards. Disc brakes make this easy. Plus they are a bonus in bad weather plus really clean running.

    I have a Boardman CX which rides ok, but does not feel very racy, it is what it is. But I can tell you it needs far less care and attention being used daily in all weathers, the roubaix is in a state within a couple of rides. Disc brakes do not suffer any fade in the wet and so far never faded due to heat, the 105 on the Roubaix you need to plan ahead to clear the rims just in case you need to brake, in the wet. In the dry calipers are fine.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    clean running? what is this?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    when it runs, and it's clean...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Fat-Boy-Roubaix
    Fat-Boy-Roubaix Posts: 413
    rake wrote:
    clean running? what is this?
    Ride a week in the wet with calipers and brake blocks its a grey grimey fecking mess everwhere, the CX looks cleaner never washed in 1000 miles than my Roubaix does after 2 weeks
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    no big problem. ive ridden cacked up rims all winters theyre still alright. they match the rest of the bike.
  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    rake wrote:
    i ment regarding riding speed not stopping ability which calipers do adequately for me. theyl build whatever they think will make money.it will be quite a money spinner.

    So you mean aerodynamics? OK, I can go with that, probably not noticeably draggier by anyone though.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    no need for carbon aero wheels then.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    Do i really need to explain andrews point to you rake?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    rake wrote:
    no need for carbon aero wheels then.

    You have no idea of the aerodynamic losses of the unreleased disc system compared to traditional calliper brakes, so how can you possibly make comments LOL
    Simon
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    same way i can hypothesize a brick isnt as free moving as an arrow.
  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    rake wrote:
    same way i can hypothesize a brick isnt as free moving as an arrow.

    yes. i think that sums it up.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    andrewjoseph wrote:
    rake wrote:
    same way i can hypothesize a brick isnt as free moving as an arrow.
    yes. i think that sums it up.

    Yes, but unfortunately you seem to have forgotten about the aerodynamics of that large mass attached to the bike that provides the power, which even if a disc brake was as as aerodynamics as a brick (which isn't obviously not), your body is like a house.

    And due to the disc size (diameter compared to a wheel), you get only very small effects from rotational weight, or rotational area in terms of aerodynamics.
    Simon
  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    I don't think rake wants to be converted, hence my comment. He's coming out with silly comparisons that sum up his absolute refusal to accept the facts in the face of his bias.

    There is no point in using further facts to try to convince him. He prefers calipers, that's fine.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • springtide9
    springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    andrewjoseph wrote:
    I don't think rake wants to be converted, hence my comment. He's coming out with silly comparisons that sum up his absolute refusal to accept the facts in the face of his bias.
    There is no point in using further facts to try to convince him. He prefers calipers, that's fine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso
    Simon
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    :lol::lol::lol: i love that scene.

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